Messi GOAT claimers who hate on CR7...

More and more voices in the Messi symphony are starting to sing "GOAT", still the same posters/fans usually are the ones who love to hate on Ronaldo, claiming something along the line that he's not fit to shine Messis boots.

Still the same posters now see Messis three in a row Ballon d'Ors as further proof that Messi is on his way to GOAT status. There is a big hole in the logic here. For Messis Ballon d'Ors to be worth anything in a historical context, he must be challanged by great contemporary footballers. Otherwise he'll go down in history as the best player during an era with not much competition. So for Messi to be considered great and for the Ballon d'Ors to have any weight, Ronaldo must be considered great in a historical context too.

Messi fans are currently raging about the three Ballon d'Ors, which in fact puts Messi in the same bracket as Cruyff, Van Basten and Platini on an individual award levels. God knows how many Ballon d'Ors Pele and/or Maradona would have won if they were eligible. But lets look at the competition those players faced from contemporary footballers. Cruyff played at the same time as players like Best, Müller, Zoff, Beckenbauer and Mazzola among others. Platini played at the same time as Schuster, Rossi, Dalglish, Rummenigge and Lineker. Van Basten played at the same time as Baresi, Matthaus, Butragueno, Bergkamp, Stoichkov and Baggio among others.

All legendary footballers in their own right.

But what about Messi? If you'd have it the Barca/Messi fanboys way, Ronaldo is a glorified pretty boy with not much talent, the only other players in the world fit to be called historical greats are ofcourse his team mates Xavi, Iniesta and maybe Dani Alves. The second best player and constant competition for Ballon d'Or? Not so much.

See the flawed logic here? I'm not claiming that Messi is not the best player of our time nor that he's not comparable to the best the game have seen. But you can't have it both ways, he can't be GOAT without harsh competition.

........................Messi is not THE GOAT.

When Ronaldo actually does win Competitions watch the balance shift and people start calling him the best or even the GOAT.It's inevitable because people overreact.

Messi is the most talented player I've ever seen tho , a blind man could see that and he is translating that talent into sucess so I don't see any reason why hec can't become the GOAT.He has GOAT potential.........

I don't think Ronaldo has GOAT potential sorry.....not aknock on him....that's just the way it is.

ragbirjosh wrote:........................Messi is not THE GOAT.

When Ronaldo actually does win Competitions watch the balance shift and people start calling him the best or even the GOAT.It's inevitable because people overreact.

Messi is the most talented player I've ever seen tho , a blind man could see that and he is translating that talent into sucess so I don't see any reason why hec can't become the GOAT.He has GOAT potential.........

I don't think Ronaldo has GOAT potential sorry.....not aknock on him....that's just the way it is.

Ronaldo don't have GOAT potential if he doesn't suddenly reach some kind of higher prime in his 26-30s, which I don't think he will if there isn't some big change (for example, convert him to CF along with development and he has the potential to be one of the greatest CFs of all time). I agree. And it's not the point, But Ronaldo is putting out similar numbers to Messi in La Liga with a lesser team. He's performing on a similar level with his NT and he have already established himself as a Man Utd legend and certainly will be a Real Madrid legend aswell as possibly the greatest goal scorer in Real Madrid history (112 goals in 114 games so far).

Still Messi is "GOAT", and Ronaldo is nothing special?

paperbackwriter wrote:

Cruyff played at the same time as players like Best, Müller, Zoff, Beckenbauer and Mazzola among others. Platini played at the same time as Schuster, Rossi, Dalglish, Rummenigge and Lineker. Van Basten played at the same time as Baresi, Matthaus, Butragueno, Bergkamp, Stoichkov and Baggio among others.

lol, moar revisionist bullshit please

in 20 years people will remember that messi played at the same time as the likes of henry, iniesta, van persie and etoo and all of them will be revered as legends of the game... similarly, the same people will be acting like the back-in-my-day douchebags of today who judge players from 20-30-40 years ago by youtube videos and a few matches

just because you can't appreciate current players doesn't mean they're not good

This is a childish argument. goals or stats doesnt make you great. otherwise all golden shoe winners would be considered in the same level as cryuff platini maradona. but who remembers all time top scorer of barcelona? or r.madrid?very few fans. People rate players by performances and their contribution at winning titles. after 50 years if anybody watches one of el clasicos he will not rate CR as a legend

about current competitors level, as che said with time and nostalgia todays player will be considered in the same level as past players

When is Ronaldo going to win these competitions? I'm not getting any younger here.............

messi is not the goat.....hes goat potential but he does need a WC to compete with pele and maradona

billionmillion wrote:This is a childish argument. goals or stats doesnt make you great. otherwise all golden shoe winners would be considered in the same level as cryuff platini maradona. but who remembers all time top scorer of barcelona? or r.madrid?very few fans. People rate players by performances and their contribution at winning titles. after 50 years if anybody watches one of el clasicos he will not rate CR as a legend

about current competitors level, as che said with time and nostalgia todays player will be considered in the same level as past players

If that was true we would have seem Snijeder winning one in his treble season, but I guess its more about "fanboyism".

halamadrid2 wrote:will argentina ever win a WC???

i think they might win it in 2018,but no chance they are having a good campaign in 2014.

i can assure you that in every argentina game there will be 3/4 of the stadium cheering for the opposition and booing the feck out of gentina

Ganso wrote:messi is not the goat.....hes goat potential but he does need a WC to compete with pele and maradona

Winning a World Cup is all about chance. If you arent born in the right generation of team mates you are not winning it, it's that simple. I hate this arguement. The entire NT flops like a saggy nut sack and it's Messi's fault for some reason for not taking them to glory

halamadrid2 wrote:will argentina ever win a WC???

Maybe not in Messi's career. But does he really need it? Cruyff and Di Stefano didn't.

Of course people are gonna expect Messi to lead Argentina to glory and it's only in that sense that people are gonna blame him for Argentina's failures. It's god damn harsh and wrong but it is how it is. You really think it's Cristiano's fault that Portugal don't do as well as they should: nope but he gets the fair amount of the blame. Why? Because he is their talisman.

The same applies to Messi. I know it isn't Messi's fault Argentina under achieve. They have been under achieving since 1994 (judging from the talent that consistently appears every 4 years), I doubt Messi can stop that from not continuing. But it is really hard to really claim GOAT status without a World Cup.

The WC thing is utter tripe.......

WC is not even the biggest stage anymore ffs.......

Cruyff and Di Stefano didnt need it and neither does Messi, if you dominate enough at club level then WC is irrelevant.....

Does anyone really think if Messi wins the next 2 Balon D'or that he wont be considered a GOAT?

windkick wrote:

Ganso wrote:messi is not the goat.....hes goat potential but he does need a WC to compete with pele and maradona

Winning a World Cup is all about chance. If you arent born in the right generation of team mates you are not winning it, it's that simple. I hate this arguement. The entire NT flops like a saggy nut sack and it's Messi's fault for some reason for not taking them to glory

but most of the time Pele and Maradona are considered as the GOAT,in the end of the day Cruyff,Di stefano,Baggio etc are just football greats imo

Not sure if you realise but people are literally calling Messi the greatest of all time Mole. Not one of or a part of but literally the greatest player ever. Not even old man Johan and grumpy old man Don Alfredo are given such a title and both probably deserve it in their own right.

Should not having a WC define Messi's career: f-ing no. The man is on course of being an absolute football legend but to be really considered the (silly) title of being the greatest ever, he's gonna need to win that wonderful gold statue.

Doc wrote:Not sure if you realise but people are literally calling Messi the greatest of all time Mole. Not one of or a part of but literally the greatest player ever. Not even old man Johan and grumpy old man Don Alfredo are given such a title and both probably deserve it in their own right.

Should not having a WC define Messi's career: f-ing no. The man is on course of being an absolute football legend but to be really considered the (silly) title of being the greatest ever, he's gonna need to win that wonderful gold statue.

yeah,thats what i meant

Immaculate_Mole wrote:The WC thing is utter tripe.......

WC is not even the biggest stage anymore ffs.......

Cruyff and Di Stefano didnt need it and neither does Messi, if you dominate enough at club level then WC is irrelevant.....

Does anyone really think if Messi wins the next 2 Balon D'or that he wont be considered a GOAT?

This.

The WC isn't the best tournament. Most prestigious? Yes, but the cl has overtaken the world cup on every level. Messi has dominated it like no other, possibly with the exception of Di Stefano. The guy is smashing records left right and centre.

Doc wrote:Of course people are gonna expect Messi to lead Argentina to glory and it's only in that sense that people are gonna blame him for Argentina's failures. It's god damn harsh and wrong but it is how it is. You really think it's Cristiano's fault that Portugal don't do as well as they should: nope but he gets the fair amount of the blame. Why? Because he is their talisman.

The same applies to Messi. I know it isn't Messi's fault Argentina under achieve. They have been under achieving since 1994 (judging from the talent that consistently appears every 4 years), I doubt Messi can stop that from not continuing. But it is really hard to really claim GOAT status without a World Cup.

No, the Portuguese expect CR to be their talisman. Right now, he not reached anywhere near level that expectation and hasn't really ever done so for his national team.

His performances have been nowhere near how they have been for his club.

People are already calling Barca the GOAT, dont mean its true tho.......

Point is if you dominate at club level enough then the WC means diddly squat....

Messi has already dominated more at club level than Maradona ever did ffs....

Pele is the only one who dominated at International and Club level from the GOAT list....

And thats mainly because the team he played with was full of GOAT's

WC propels your name into the stratosphere, but if you dominate enough year in year out it is not necessary.

Doc wrote:Not sure if you realise but people are literally calling Messi the greatest of all time Mole. Not one of or a part of but literally the greatest player ever. Not even old man Johan and grumpy old man Don Alfredo are given such a title and both probably deserve it in their own right.

Should not having a WC define Messi's career: f-ing no. The man is on course of being an absolute football legend but to be really considered the (silly) title of being the greatest ever, he's gonna need to win that wonderful gold statue.

The idea of a single goat is laughable at best. For me there is an elite group of players and Messi is in that list arm.

Arquitecto wrote:

Doc wrote:Of course people are gonna expect Messi to lead Argentina to glory and it's only in that sense that people are gonna blame him for Argentina's failures. It's god damn harsh and wrong but it is how it is. You really think it's Cristiano's fault that Portugal don't do as well as they should: nope but he gets the fair amount of the blame. Why? Because he is their talisman.

The same applies to Messi. I know it isn't Messi's fault Argentina under achieve. They have been under achieving since 1994 (judging from the talent that consistently appears every 4 years), I doubt Messi can stop that from not continuing. But it is really hard to really claim GOAT status without a World Cup.

No, the Portuguese expect CR to be their talisman. Right now, he not reached anywhere near level that expectation and hasn't really ever done so for his national team.

His performances have been nowhere near how they have been for his club.

Euro 2004?CR made it with portugal to the final and performed well no?(didnt watch it,thats what i hear)

Ganso wrote:

Arquitecto wrote:

Doc wrote:Of course people are gonna expect Messi to lead Argentina to glory and it's only in that sense that people are gonna blame him for Argentina's failures. It's god damn harsh and wrong but it is how it is. You really think it's Cristiano's fault that Portugal don't do as well as they should: nope but he gets the fair amount of the blame. Why? Because he is their talisman.

The same applies to Messi. I know it isn't Messi's fault Argentina under achieve. They have been under achieving since 1994 (judging from the talent that consistently appears every 4 years), I doubt Messi can stop that from not continuing. But it is really hard to really claim GOAT status without a World Cup.

No, the Portuguese expect CR to be their talisman. Right now, he not reached anywhere near level that expectation and hasn't really ever done so for his national team.

His performances have been nowhere near how they have been for his club.

Euro 2004?CR made it with portugal to the final and performed well no?(didnt watch it,thats what i hear)

He did perform well.

Arquitecto wrote:

Doc wrote:Of course people are gonna expect Messi to lead Argentina to glory and it's only in that sense that people are gonna blame him for Argentina's failures. It's god damn harsh and wrong but it is how it is. You really think it's Cristiano's fault that Portugal don't do as well as they should: nope but he gets the fair amount of the blame. Why? Because he is their talisman.

The same applies to Messi. I know it isn't Messi's fault Argentina under achieve. They have been under achieving since 1994 (judging from the talent that consistently appears every 4 years), I doubt Messi can stop that from not continuing. But it is really hard to really claim GOAT status without a World Cup.

No, the Portuguese expect CR to be their talisman. Right now, he not reached anywhere near level that expectation and hasn't really ever done so for his national team.

His performances have been nowhere near how they have been for his club.

ARFFFF!!!!!

Euro 2004, World Cup 2006. He performed very well.