R9 (Pre-injury) vs Messi

billionmillion wrote:

The Franchise wrote:

billionmillion wrote:

The Franchise wrote:Should add, saying Ronaldo was an average passer is verging on the outragous.

Firstly he was a number 9, of course he isnt going to be playing the final pass as often as Messi. Thats just normal.

But when he did pass, it was anything but average.

So you are saying r9 was better footballer than messi? better than him at everything? or you liked his style more. because what r9 did messi can do. but what messi can do r9 could not do. but i think you are trying to say that r9 was better playmaker than messi

Where did I say all that? lol

I dont know you sound like a R9 fanboy before also i have seen your fanboy comments about r9

dont blame you though i also raised watching r9. But for me batistuta was the reason why i watch football, r9 was close

And you sound like a Messi fanboy, trying to downgrade Ronaldo just to make Messi look before (when its not even needed) but it is what it is.

You lose all creditability when you say Ronaldo was an average passer, real talk.

I dont get why people have to make stuff up just to argue a point.

Ronaldo was triple marked and one man team lol

Ronaldo was an average passer lol


Could go on but whats the use. People living in their private dreamlands, cant listen to logic.

Dreamlands ?? I support Inter for a long time now.... I've seen Ronaldo being triple marked in Serie A for multiple times.

Can't listen to logic ?? This whole forums lacks logic , It's full of kids..

Ronaldo hands down grew up watching him like most of you did with messi

And he has 2 WC well one since he didn't play in 1994

I've watched football from -86, and this Messi is better than R9 ever was. Hands and legs down.

delaurentishotz wrote:Dreamlands ?? I support Inter for a long time now.... I've seen Ronaldo being triple marked in Serie A for multiple times.

Can't listen to logic ?? This whole forums lacks logic , It's full of kids..

He was never triple marked. He dribbled past one, so another one came, was going past him so another comes and so on. Every great player has to deal with that if they are expert dribblers.

tbh I cannot pick between them the only thing I can pick between them is Messi appears more consistent and is able to produce even more constantly season after season but in terms of their qualities there is little that I can pick to say one is clearly better than the other imo

I pick R9.

Not because I'm a Madrid fan, I still say that Messi, when finished, will have more to show for his effort than R9.

But R9 had more flare and he was more exciting imo. The ease, finesse execution he had were much, much more epic to watch.

But I'm not saying Messi is not special to watch, he just doesn't excite the football fan in me as much.

The Franchise wrote:

billionmillion wrote:

The Franchise wrote:

billionmillion wrote:

The Franchise wrote:Should add, saying Ronaldo was an average passer is verging on the outragous.

Firstly he was a number 9, of course he isnt going to be playing the final pass as often as Messi. Thats just normal.

But when he did pass, it was anything but average.

So you are saying r9 was better footballer than messi? better than him at everything? or you liked his style more. because what r9 did messi can do. but what messi can do r9 could not do. but i think you are trying to say that r9 was better playmaker than messi

Where did I say all that? lol

I dont know you sound like a R9 fanboy before also i have seen your fanboy comments about r9

dont blame you though i also raised watching r9. But for me batistuta was the reason why i watch football, r9 was close

And you sound like a Messi fanboy.

cngrlt-tions for realizing finally

Anywaysssssssss... Anybody know where I can download every single match that R9 played in?

billionmillion wrote:

Ganso wrote:R9 was as good as messi,but didnt have Xaviesta

Instead he had ZidaneRivaldoFigoRonaldinhoL.EnriqueBeckhamestas

"

It seems everyone is misunderstanding the point here. Messi is being compared with pre-injury Ronaldo.

pre-injury Ronaldo didn't have Zidane, Figo, Ronaldinho...........

And frankly speaking he didn't need them back then.

And just wait until Messi and CR7 get a serious career-threatening injury (which Ronaldo had three times in his career among other minor injuries), and then lets see how they make a comeback. Personally, I wouldn't bet a used shoe on them being anywhere close to their current standards. Look at the way they fallover, rollover and stay lying and writhing after being tackled. Every single tackle. R9 took such tackles on a daily basis in Italy(back then the defenders were better too. Especially in Italy.) and he didn't overexagggerate.

Just have a look. Am I wrong. In the past three years, I see normal standard tackles and I see them lying around on the ground so long, you might think they might have had a heart attack. Fakers and soreLosers that's what I would call them. They are good players. Perhaps too good. Just wait for tragedy to strike.

The fact that Ronaldo made it back through two grave injuries, won the World Cup single-handedly in a meagre looking Brazil, in general, and was still considered one of the best in the business clearly makes him the winner in the long run.

Lets put this childish debate to rst.... First of all i love Messi as the next person even thou Im a madrid fan and hes def the best player right now but lets not compare him to legends just yet... Especially Ronaldo.

Ronaldo during his time at Barcelona was the best ever.... He was just unreal. If you forgot go watch his highlights. He was arguably the best player at 18 already at PSV. Went to Holland and DOMINATED!! Went to Spain and DOMINATED!! Went to Italy and DOMINATED!! Came off third knee injury and played less than 10 games n won the WC as the best player. Won 3 ballon dors in 2 different countries.

This is just the beginning I don't feel like going into more detail bcuz it's 3 in the morning....

Messi is a product of Barcelonas system!

Shadowfax666 wrote:

billionmillion wrote:

Ganso wrote:R9 was as good as messi,but didnt have Xaviesta

Instead he had ZidaneRivaldoFigoRonaldinhoL.EnriqueBeckhamestas

"

It seems everyone is misunderstanding the point here. Messi is being compared with pre-injury Ronaldo.

pre-injury Ronaldo didn't have Zidane, Figo, Ronaldinho...........

And frankly speaking he didn't need them back then.

Pre/post-injury Ronaldo was a striker, who needed service just like any other striker. On average about 80-90% of striker goals are directly assisted, meaning no part in build up play. Messi averages below 50% which is unheard of among the more prominent goal scorers.

Now lets look their seasons:

Ronaldo 96-97 47 goals + 6 assists = directly part of 53 goals or 40% of overall 131 goals.
Messi 11-12 73 goals + 36 assists = directly part of 109 goals or 57% of overall 190 goals.

So Barca without Ronaldo managed to score 78 goals, Barca without Messi 81 goals (and even that is diluted with 10 goals against Hospitalet which Messi didn't play, CDR R32 wasn't played back then).

The difference, Messi was part of twice the goals than Ronaldo, creating more than 50% of his own goals (Ronaldo 10-20%). There is no comparison really, pre-during-post-injury Ronaldo wasn't as good as Messi currently is, actually not even close.

Try to compare the teams they were playing in, that Barca would get raped by this one by a large margin. Ronaldo at 22 already dominated 4 leagues and the WC. Put prime Ronaldo in this Barca and he would have scored 80+ in 1 season. + Messi has the chance to reach his potential, Ronaldo didn't.

I just did, both teams managed to score about the same without the players in question, but Messi managed to create twice the goals than Ronaldo. Now lets look their best years in national teams:

Messi 2012 12 goals in 9 games, or 44% of the total 27 Argentina scored.
Ronado 2002 11 goals in 12 games (1997 15 goals in 20 games), or 41% of the total 27 Brazil scored. And all this from Messi playing deeper, having to cover the build up part of the game also.

Again, Messi has better total, and Ronaldo had one of the best national teams ever behind him.

In place of Messi prime Ronaldo would probably score about 40-50 goals in this Barcelona.

Prime Ronaldo on this Barcelona team would score around 100 easily.

It's kinda pointless arguing with Barcelona fans bcuz no matter what you say, they will never agree that someone is better than Messi.

Let Messi win WC as the main player and then we can talk until then, there's no debate that Ronaldo ranks higher than Messi on all time list. I could care less how man CL titles he got. If you wanan go by that i guess Paolo Maldini >>> Messi then

Harmonica wrote:I just did, both teams managed to score about the same without the players in question, but Messi managed to create twice the goals than Ronaldo. Now lets look their best years in national teams:

Messi 2012 12 goals in 9 games, or 44% of the total 27 Argentina scored.
Ronado 2002 11 goals in 12 games (1997 15 goals in 20 games), or 41% of the total 27 Brazil scored. And all this from Messi playing deeper, having to cover the build up part of the game also.

Again, Messi has better total, and Ronaldo had one of the best national teams ever behind him.

In place of Messi prime Ronaldo would probably score about 40-50 goals in this Barcelona.

So you're argument is who has better goal percentage for their team? Pele, Romario and Puskas must be top 3 on your list huh?

I don't think you really believe your last line..... Ronaldo was scoring that many goals on regular basis and you put him on todays Barcelona and he'd still score that many? lmfao

Barcelona are the highest scoring team in the world. Ronaldo's goals would double in their offense

Shadowfax666 wrote:

billionmillion wrote:

Ganso wrote:R9 was as good as messi,but didnt have Xaviesta

Instead he had ZidaneRivaldoFigoRonaldinhoL.EnriqueBeckhamestas

"

It seems everyone is misunderstanding the point here. Messi is being compared with pre-injury Ronaldo.

pre-injury Ronaldo didn't have Zidane, Figo, Ronaldinho...........

And frankly speaking he didn't need them back then.

And just wait until Messi and CR7 get a serious career-threatening injury (which Ronaldo had three times in his career among other minor injuries), and then lets see how they make a comeback. Personally, I wouldn't bet a used shoe on them being anywhere close to their current standards. Look at the way they fallover, rollover and stay lying and writhing after being tackled. Every single tackle. R9 took such tackles on a daily basis in Italy(back then the defenders were better too. Especially in Italy.) and he didn't overexagggerate.

Just have a look. Am I wrong. In the past three years, I see normal standard tackles and I see them lying around on the ground so long, you might think they might have had a heart attack. Fakers and soreLosers that's what I would call them. They are good players. Perhaps too good. Just wait for tragedy to strike.

The fact that Ronaldo made it back through two grave injuries, won the World Cup single-handedly in a meagre looking Brazil, in general, and was still considered one of the best in the business clearly makes him the winner in the long run.

a pre-injured Ronaldo did have figo and he also had Guardiola, who was a great creater as well..

Wai.. What? How can you say that Ronaldo won the WC single-handedly when Ronaldinho and especially Rivaldo had a brilliant WC? Some would argue that Rivaldo was just as good and important for the team as Ronaldo was..

Harmonica wrote:I've watched football from -86, and this Messi is better than R9 ever was. Hands and legs down.

but you are also a barca fan as well, so although given your vast experience in watching football, in case of messi, it doesn't count lol

im sure if messi was in real madrid... most barca fans would say cryuff, ronaldinho and R9 are better than him

So for Messi to prove the best he has to have a serious injury? wtf are you guys smoking.
Also yeah lets completely forget the amazing Brazil squad Ronaldo had, he won it with heskey in all positions.

Donuts wrote:Also yeah lets completely forget the amazing Brazil squad Ronaldo had, he won it with heskey in all positions.

R.Carlos, one of the best LB's ever
Lucio, one of the best CB's ever
Cafu, one of the, if not the best RB's ever

Rivaldo, one of the best AM's ever
Ronaldinho, one of the best AM's ever

Ronaldo, one of the, if not the best strikers ever

And others were no slouch either.

The team had 2 active Ballon d'Or's, 3 eventual, 4 if you count Kaka also. That's fairly remarkable and comprehensive talent pool to have.

Future wrote:Prime Ronaldo on this Barcelona team would score around 100 easily.

It's kinda pointless arguing with Barcelona fans bcuz no matter what you say, they will never agree that someone is better than Messi.

Let Messi win WC as the main player and then we can talk until then, there's no debate that Ronaldo ranks higher than Messi on all time list. I could care less how man CL titles he got. If you wanan go by that i guess Paolo Maldini >>> Messi then

It's really difficult to try and discredit Barca fans by making up your own statistics about Ronaldo in Barcelona's team and keep a straight face while doing it

Ronaldo hasn't touched Messi's level of consistency [because of injuries] which is why I rank Messi above him

No, Messi hasn't won a World Cup but he's better than most who have
It's funny how it constantly flips from individual achievements, like goal scoring and the ballon d'or, to team achievements like the Champions League and the World Cup, when you can't use both criteria without contradicting the other.

They both were surrounded by incredible teams and both were the standout player for their respective teams

Shadowfax666 wrote:The fact that Ronaldo made it back through two grave injuries, won the World Cup single-handedly in a meagre looking Brazil, in general, and was still considered one of the best in the business clearly makes him the winner in the long run.

bwahaha.
Whose troll account is this?

Luca wrote:

Future wrote:Prime Ronaldo on this Barcelona team would score around 100 easily.

It's kinda pointless arguing with Barcelona fans bcuz no matter what you say, they will never agree that someone is better than Messi.

Let Messi win WC as the main player and then we can talk until then, there's no debate that Ronaldo ranks higher than Messi on all time list. I could care less how man CL titles he got. If you wanan go by that i guess Paolo Maldini >>> Messi then

It's really difficult to try and discredit Barca fans by making up your own statistics about Ronaldo in Barcelona's team and keep a straight face while doing it

Ronaldo hasn't touched Messi's level of consistency [because of injuries] which is why I rank Messi above him

No, Messi hasn't won a World Cup but he's better than most who have
It's funny how it constantly flips from individual achievements, like goal scoring and the ballon d'or, to team achievements like the Champions League and the World Cup, when you can't use both criteria without contradicting the other.

They both were surrounded by incredible teams and both were the standout player for their respective teams

Ronaldo is if not the most consistent striker of all time... he didn't need anyone creating for him. He was the most consistent striker before the injuries occurred and even after injuries he put up i believe 3 seasons of 30+ goals with Madrid even with his struggling weight.

The Inter teams that Ronaldo played on were incredible? lol

i never flip flopped between ind. awards, teams awards, etc....

Harmonica wrote:

Donuts wrote:Also yeah lets completely forget the amazing Brazil squad Ronaldo had, he won it with heskey in all positions.

R.Carlos, one of the best LB's ever
Lucio, one of the best CB's ever
Cafu, one of the, if not the best RB's ever

Rivaldo, one of the best AM's ever
Ronaldinho, one of the best AM's ever

Ronaldo, one of the, if not the best strikers ever

And others were no slouch either.

The team had 2 active Ballon d'Or's, 3 eventual, 4 if you count Kaka also. That's fairly remarkable and comprehensive talent pool to have.

Brazil we're picked as the flop of the tournament before it started... Their own legend Pele said they wouldn't come out of the group. Kaka didn't even sniff a minute on the field. Ronaldinho wasn't Ronaldinho back then. Lucio wasn't Lucio back then...All u had was Ronaldo, Cafu, Carlos and Rivaldo. And buncha nobodies.

They struggled to qualify to WC 2002 without Ronaldo, then he came after a 2 years injury and scored 8 goals and guided them to trophy.