R9 (Pre-injury) vs Messi

and see where messi is playing in jiopsi's sig. he can be midfielder, striker and winger. and you compare him with a striker. time to admit that you liked r9's style and you love him more. and the thread title should be who do you like more or with whom you want to sleep

billionmillion wrote:and see where messi is playing in jiopsi's sig. he can be midfielder, striker and winger. and you compare him with a striker. time to admit that you liked r9's style and you love him more. and the thread title should be who do you like more or with whom you want to sleep

You mean like sleep next to Messiah or do some nasty things with him?
This thread suddenly went from okayish to g4yish .

jiopsi wrote:

omarish wrote:

billionmillion wrote:

Ganso wrote:Xavi/Iniesta>any of those guys

Barcelona overall is one of the best if not the best team ever,R9 didnt have that privilege but yet he performed like a god

But in arguments you say iniesta is no where to zidane, now you say they are better than all those combined?
and how r9 performed like a Godd? flopping in big games? and winning 0 CL?

What flopping in big games? Do you know he scored 3 goals in a final vs. MANCHESTER UNITED?

how is that a big game flop looooool

Tbh Messi is still better than Ronaldo against big teams:



(G+A)/Game

Messi 1.00
R9 0.67
Henry 0.66
Ronaldinho 0.65
Drogba 0.63
Eto'o 0.53
Villa 0.51
Shevchenko 0.49
Aguero 0.47
Cronaldo 0.46
Rooney 0.45
Van Nistelrooy 0.45
Torres 0.42
Van Persie 0.40
Zlatan 0.36

Sevilla a big team?

Blue wrote:

jiopsi wrote:

omarish wrote:

billionmillion wrote:

Ganso wrote:Xavi/Iniesta>any of those guys

Barcelona overall is one of the best if not the best team ever,R9 didnt have that privilege but yet he performed like a god

But in arguments you say iniesta is no where to zidane, now you say they are better than all those combined?
and how r9 performed like a Godd? flopping in big games? and winning 0 CL?

What flopping in big games? Do you know he scored 3 goals in a final vs. MANCHESTER UNITED?

how is that a big game flop looooool

Tbh Messi is still better than Ronaldo against big teams:



(G+A)/Game

Messi 1.00
R9 0.67
Henry 0.66
Ronaldinho 0.65
Drogba 0.63
Eto'o 0.53
Villa 0.51
Shevchenko 0.49
Aguero 0.47
Cronaldo 0.46
Rooney 0.45
Van Nistelrooy 0.45
Torres 0.42
Van Persie 0.40
Zlatan 0.36

Sevilla a big team?

Yes, it's on average over past decade, and I don't think it changes the results much anyway if you take it off.

Blue wrote:

jiopsi wrote:

omarish wrote:

billionmillion wrote:

Ganso wrote:Xavi/Iniesta>any of those guys

Barcelona overall is one of the best if not the best team ever,R9 didnt have that privilege but yet he performed like a god

But in arguments you say iniesta is no where to zidane, now you say they are better than all those combined?
and how r9 performed like a Godd? flopping in big games? and winning 0 CL?

What flopping in big games? Do you know he scored 3 goals in a final vs. MANCHESTER UNITED?

how is that a big game flop looooool

Tbh Messi is still better than Ronaldo against big teams:



(G+A)/Game

Messi 1.00
R9 0.67
Henry 0.66
Ronaldinho 0.65
Drogba 0.63
Eto'o 0.53
Villa 0.51
Shevchenko 0.49
Aguero 0.47
Cronaldo 0.46
Rooney 0.45
Van Nistelrooy 0.45
Torres 0.42
Van Persie 0.40
Zlatan 0.36

Sevilla a big team?

why not? Decent fanbase, bigger stadium than most of the clubs, trophies and good players, constant contenders of CL and Europa league.

jiopsi wrote:Yes, it's on average over past decade, and I don't think it changes the results much anyway if you take it off.

It doesn't change the result, but i don't see them as a big team. Almost every player on that list has done well against Sevilla when given the chance to play them. I just don't seem them as a competitive side.

On topic: Messi takes this one, but watching R9 during the 98 World Cup is one of the reason why i watch football.

I've seen them both at full swing and Messi is comfortably better. Once again I will say this, Messi leads his team to big trophies, r9 does not bar 1 WC and 1 copa.

Both can't score with their heads

This kind of comparison gets us nowhere to be honest.

Ronaldo is an amazing player. I was mesmerized by him in the '98 WC. He was taking on players on his own and scoring.

He definitely had the talent to be one of the best of all time. And he showed it on the pitch too. Shame about his injury.

Anyone who is a fan of this beautiful game would not compare the two as it does injustice to both of them and the ones comparing. Both amazing players in their own right.

billionmillion wrote:

Ganso wrote:R9 was as good as messi,but didnt have Xaviesta

Instead he had ZidaneRivaldoFigoRonaldinhoL.EnriqueBeckhamestas

R9 comes close to messi only at scoring
But this thread as always will turn into a nostalgic "who do you like more"

when did a pre injury r9 have zizou, figo,beckham?

El Pipita wrote:

Lionel Messi wrote:

billionmillion wrote:

Ganso wrote:R9 was as good as messi,but didnt have Xaviesta

Instead he had ZidaneRivaldoFigoRonaldinhoL.EnriqueBeckhamestas

R9 comes close to messi only at scoring
But this thread as always will turn into a nostalgic "who do you like more"

R9 doesn't touch Messi in scoring, Messi scored nearly as many goals in one season than R9's entire time at Inter (5 seasons)

But scoring does not make anyone a better player.
CR is currently ahead of Messi in goalscoring, does it make him a better player ?

Actually he's not but that's not the topic

diptiman wrote:

billionmillion wrote:

Ganso wrote:R9 was as good as messi,but didnt have Xaviesta

Instead he had ZidaneRivaldoFigoRonaldinhoL.EnriqueBeckhamestas

R9 comes close to messi only at scoring
But this thread as always will turn into a nostalgic "who do you like more"

when did a pre injury r9 have zizou, figo,beckham?

even pre-injury r9 had fantastic players
luis enrique, guardiola, figo, stoichkov, rivaldo, ronaldinho, giovanni, djorkaeff, Simone, Recoba, Pirlo and so on

messi has xavi, iniesta and di maria in national team behind him. thats all.

and most of time messi himself becomes a "behind"

Messi has probably the best team ever behind him... Pre-injury R9 had crappy teams, except that Barca team I will admit they were good, they came 2nd in La Liga and won the other 2 competitions they were in (CDR and Cup Winners Cup; they weren't in the CL) which isn't too shabby...

Messi is in his comfort zone with a team catered to him, R9 never had that.. Let Messi leave Barca, then we can see what he's really about

As a player regardless of these players' achievements and accolades i would choose Messi.

Swagg_Johnson wrote:Messi has probably the best team ever behind him... Pre-injury R9 had crappy teams, except that Barca team I will admit they were good, they came 2nd in La Liga and won the other 2 competitions they were in (CDR and Cup Winners Cup; they weren't in the CL) which isn't too shabby...

Messi is in his comfort zone with a team catered to him, R9 never had that.. Let Messi leave Barca, then we can see what he's really about

we already see it in the Argentinian NT......inb4 someone says Argentina has crappy players

Ganso wrote:

Swagg_Johnson wrote:Messi has probably the best team ever behind him... Pre-injury R9 had crappy teams, except that Barca team I will admit they were good, they came 2nd in La Liga and won the other 2 competitions they were in (CDR and Cup Winners Cup; they weren't in the CL) which isn't too shabby...

Messi is in his comfort zone with a team catered to him, R9 never had that.. Let Messi leave Barca, then we can see what he's really about

we already see it in the Argentinian NT......inb4 someone says Argentina has crappy players

Argentina has some good individual players but as a team they suck.. Kind of like R9's pre-injury teams lol

R9 pre-injury > Messi for Argentina (i.e. without his 'homies' backing him)

Swagg_Johnson wrote:Messi has probably the best team ever behind him... Pre-injury R9 had crappy teams, except that Barca team I will admit they were good, they came 2nd in La Liga and won the other 2 competitions they were in (CDR and Cup Winners Cup; they weren't in the CL) which isn't too shabby...

Messi is in his comfort zone with a team catered to him, R9 never had that.. Let Messi leave Barca, then we can see what he's really about

as if r9 changed his teams and won anything most probably messi would do same thing if not better if he played in another top-teams. give messi players likes of luis enrique guardiola rivaldo figo and others that i mentioned messi would beat the world. even with old romario and cafu messi made a show, people were saying how great they understand each other and they were playing first time together. its not that messi knows players well, its something that messi was born with, his understanding with every player is awasome and its easiest thing to play alongside with messi according some players interviews

but unfortunately argentina's best midfielder is mascerano. last time argentina had a true midfielders were old veron and old riquelme. with them messi was doing great. once old aimar played for argentina messi made a show. even without midfielders messi was doing great in WC. but now people say messi must do great without midfielders and defenders. next year they will say messi must play alone in next WC.

now imagine what messi would do with players likes of rivaldo ronaldinho figo enrique stoickov guardiola pirlo and another players that were behind pre-injury ronaldo. messi doesnt need great midfielders, today an old Aimar is enough for messi to make a show

Swagg_Johnson wrote:

Ganso wrote:

Swagg_Johnson wrote:Messi has probably the best team ever behind him... Pre-injury R9 had crappy teams, except that Barca team I will admit they were good, they came 2nd in La Liga and won the other 2 competitions they were in (CDR and Cup Winners Cup; they weren't in the CL) which isn't too shabby...

Messi is in his comfort zone with a team catered to him, R9 never had that.. Let Messi leave Barca, then we can see what he's really about

we already see it in the Argentinian NT......inb4 someone says Argentina has crappy players

Argentina has some good individual players but as a team they suck.. Kind of like R9's pre-injury teams lol

R9 pre-injury > Messi for Argentina (i.e. without his 'homies' backing him)

Well Klose for national team>All of them.
Comparing national team with a club is a fail. You play every week for club and every 2 months for national team. Also Barcelona 1996-97 and Inter 1999-98>>> Argentina 2011 by miles. Argentina have below avarage goalkeeper, below avarage defence and no midfield. Show me any midfielder in argentina team that is in midfielders level that played behind pre-injury r9. And show me a match that argentina played with same line up 2 games in a row. if you cant then stop comparing barcelona and inter with a team that changed around 100 players in last 2 years

Barcelona and inter were one of the best teams, and barcelona won el clasico vs r.madrid that year (ronaldo involved in 1 goal while messi involves almost every clasico goals)

aside team things everybody who watched them both know that
messi at 19>ronaldo at 19. i talk about individiual play. at that age he scored getafe goal and was dribbling 4-5 players every match. he doesnt do it now much not because he is injured because he is slow compared when he was 19. this injury thing is the only thing that r9 fans use to defend him

He changed teams and dominated while being named the best player in the world on multiple teams .. It's not just the players R9 had around him, I'm saying the teams sucked.. They didn't have the teamwork of this Barca squad..

Messi is amazing I'm not saying he isn't.. But I will never consider him the best ever if he stays with Barca his whole career.. Messi needs to win outside of Barca

zece wrote:

billionmillion wrote:

Ganso wrote:R9 was as good as messi,but didnt have Xaviesta

Instead he had ZidaneRivaldoFigoRonaldinhoL.EnriqueBeckhamestas

R9 comes close to messi only at scoring
But this thread as always will turn into a nostalgic "who do you like more"

Messi better at scoring than Ronaldo ? Although you have never seen R9 at Inter ? He was the ultimate player, the one man team. Dribbles and tricks at full speed, brilliant touch, deadly finishing, strenght and precision.

Nesta, 35, owned Messi, 1 month ago. R9 owned players like Nesta, Cannavaro, Maldini or Ayala in their primes.

Nesta at 35 only owned messi once in the entire game. Messi owned the entire milan backline in that game to create the first barca goal..

--

I think that Ronaldo was a more complete goal scorer but messi is a more complete footballer. Messi is jsut as good at creating goals as he is at scoring them. So messi for me.

Ganso wrote:Xavi/Iniesta>any of those guys

Barcelona overall is one of the best if not the best team ever,R9 didnt have that privilege but yet he performed like a god

So you think that Xavi and Iniesta are better than Zidane? I have no problem with that seeing as they are barca player, but I thought that must people rate zidane as a top 5 player of all time..

Blue wrote:
Sevilla a big team?

they used to be a big team, in the last couple of season they have become a joke.. And either way if you remove sevilla than messi has 49 games 30 goals and 19 assist and that is almost as good of a goalscoring rate as ronaldo has but a much, much,MUCH better assist rate than ronaldo..

Swagg_Johnson wrote:He changed teams and dominated while being named the best player in the world on multiple teams .. It's not just the players R9 had around him, I'm saying the teams sucked.. They didn't have the teamwork of this Barca squad..

Messi is amazing I'm not saying he isn't.. But I will never consider him the best ever if he stays with Barca his whole career.. Messi needs to win outside of Barca

meh he won best player award because he scored more than all. top-3 were ronaldo, weah and shearer, they voted ronaldo because he score more than other 2 contender. next year he was competing with r.carlos and bergkamp. another one he won after WC 2002.

I'm not saying R9=Klose or some good player, i consider him one of the best strikers. but he can not compete with messi. reasons are

- R9 dribbling depended on his speed - Messi's dribbling depends on his touches (so he will not loose his dribbling skills in next 4-5 years).
- R9 was a goalscorer - Messi is a goalscorer and creator
- R9 scored 47 goals - Messi scored 53 goals and 26 assists
- R9 was an avarage passer - Messi is one of the best at it (10 assists for argentina in last 13 matches).
- R9 will not remembered in club football much - Messi is star of every classico and CL matches

and titles awards i didnt count only individual things

this is just an example from one match that how messi was dribbling with touches. this style is the most useful in tight spaces

zece wrote:

billionmillion wrote:

Ganso wrote:R9 was as good as messi,but didnt have Xaviesta

Instead he had ZidaneRivaldoFigoRonaldinhoL.EnriqueBeckhamestas

R9 comes close to messi only at scoring
But this thread as always will turn into a nostalgic "who do you like more"

Messi better at scoring than Ronaldo ? Although you have never seen R9 at Inter ? He was the ultimate player, the one man team. Dribbles and tricks at full speed, brilliant touch, deadly finishing, strenght and precision.

Nesta, 35, owned Messi, 1 month ago. R9 owned players like Nesta, Cannavaro, Maldini or Ayala in their primes.

On the contrary its Messi who owned Nesta.
Nesta had a great tackle.Thats it.Rest of the time over the 2 legs Messi owned Nesta and the entire Milan backline.

On topic,two years ago this might have been close.Right now not a debate.
Messi is clearly superior.

billionmillion wrote:actually r9 didnt help any club to win any major titles. Major titles that R9 won in his entire club career.

La liga (once)
Uefa Cup (once)

But his fans always repeat this: R9 was game winner, he was one man team, he was winning games by himself...my ass, nobody wins games by himself. stop overrating past. r9 was just part of the best teams in his era


about performance you dont even need to comment. nobody maybe in history was so consistent performer as messi. who performed as the best player 4 years in a row? pls just stop talking about performance

actually no

Cruzeiro Esporte Clube

Campeonato Mineiro (1): 1994
Copa do Brasil (1): 1993

PSV Eindhoven

KNVB Cup (1): 1996
Johan Cruijff-schaal (1): 1996

FC Barcelona

Copa del Rey (1): 1997
UEFA Cup Winners' Cup (1): 1997
Supercopa de España (1): 1996

F.C. Internazionale Milano

UEFA Cup (1): 1998

Real Madrid C.F.

La Liga (1): 2002–03
Intercontinental Cup (1): 2002
Supercopa de España (1): 2003

Sport Club Corinthians Paulista

Campeonato Paulista (1): 2009
Copa do Brasil (1): 2009

I make that more than 2 major titles

R9, 19-20 years old, with an average barcelona team.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iXOMPo7cEI