My reflection on Brazilian and South American football

+3
Funkentelechy
Sushi Master
rsinatra
7 posters

Page 2 of 2 Previous  1, 2

Go down

My reflection on Brazilian and South American football - Page 2 Empty Re: My reflection on Brazilian and South American football

Post by Catracho Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:22 pm

Sushi Master wrote:I conceed on the history. SA football history is not my strong point. There are pretty much clubs dedicated to poaching SA talent (Palermo, Udinese, Liga clubs). I can see that this wasn't the case before.

Catracho wrote:Sushi you mad bro?

Your a EuroCentric Venezuelan.. So idk whether your comments are just dumb.. or really really biased.

You're saying a NT needs all European players to do well on the International level.. NOOOo Thats only if your league sucks (see Venezuela Laughing)

Unlike Venezuela, Brasileirao is the best league in THE AMERICAS and by a country mile. You also talk of our top players of going Europe.. yea, but there are numerous factors that go into that.. Corrupt officials, Money hungry presidents, clubs in need of money, but now Brasil is starting to get rid of these factors slowly but surely. If it was 2005, I would of bet on Neymar leaving Brazil at 18 for 10 million due to the aforementioned, but now Brazilian presidents and officials have wised up.

Brazilian League now has a steady stream of income without selling players and can accomodate their big name youngsters. They also know what they have in their products, so they don't have the feel to have to sell early (like Coutinho).

Bro, get real. Brazil is not the old Brazil, you will not waltz into Brazil poach a top player for peanuts and leave... not anymore. You will HAVE to pay top dollars for top talent now and as you can see... with neymar, lucas, ganso... this is reality and not bias.

Oh and you must've forgot the Brazilian League was once the best in the world for like 30 years. :coffee:

dwi Sushi.. dwi.

Huh? I did not say that. I said that some countries are doing off better by having their talent poached, as is in our case. Yes, I know our league is shit and I have already stated it. Our talents would never develop as needed without European aid. Argentina, Brazil etc. are obviously a different manner entirely due to having strong leagues and important history.

I don't understand your butthurt defending Brazil. Just saying European clubs have massive money and all that top talent will go if top money is offered. Sure, they're worth more than before but so what? European clubs are still top dog due to the resources they have. Give it time and this will happen less, due to Brazil's improving economy. Yeah, I can see that but just not right now.

its happening right now...

and I'm going to end it at that because if I was to continue with my opinion you'd probably throw your computer at your wall, cuz you might see it as 2muchBlasphemyFor1manToHandle.

Catracho
First Team
First Team

Posts : 4235
Join date : 2011-06-06

Back to top Go down

My reflection on Brazilian and South American football - Page 2 Empty Re: My reflection on Brazilian and South American football

Post by rsinatra Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:26 pm

Catracho wrote:
rsinatra wrote:
Catracho wrote:Sushi you mad bro?

Your a EuroCentric Venezuelan.. So idk whether your comments are just dumb.. or really really biased.

You're saying a NT needs all European players to do well on the International level.. NOOOo Thats only if your league sucks (see Venezuela Laughing)

Unlike Venezuela, Brasileirao is the best league in THE AMERICAS and by a country mile. You also talk of our top players of going Europe.. yea, but there are numerous factors that go into that.. Corrupt officials, Money hungry presidents, clubs in need of money, but now Brasil is starting to get rid of these factors slowly but surely. If it was 2005, I would of bet on Neymar leaving Brazil at 18 for 10 million due to the aforementioned, but now Brazilian presidents and officials have wised up.

Brazilian League now has a steady stream of income without selling players and can accomodate their big name youngsters. They also know what they have in their products, so they don't have the feel to have to sell early (like Coutinho).

Bro, get real. Brazil is not the old Brazil, you will not waltz into Brazil poach a top player for peanuts and leave... not anymore. You will HAVE to pay top dollars for top talent now and as you can see... with neymar, lucas, ganso... this is reality and not bias.

Oh and you must've forgot the Brazilian League was once the best in the world for like 30 years. :coffee:

dwi Sushi.. dwi.


I agree with you about our league changing due our economy growth, but I think it's still a very slow process. We're keeping our biggest players, sure, but in the meantime the lesser good (but still quite good) players are still leaving, not only because of the money, but because now it's widely accept that Europe is the place to be. So, we have to really adopt this philosophy and try to convince our players to stay here. Neymar is being a great example to other players.

I think even Robinho would be better nowadays if he hadn't left for Real Madrid so early.

Well I think players now know..that they have a better shot of being called-up if they stay in Brazil. It also helps that a lot of bigger names are returning.

Theres a lot of factors that are now helping Brasileirao be the Brasileirao of old. Also theres a difference between a player leaving at 19 than at say 25. I have no problem is a player leaves at a good age (ex. Hernanes), but i do have a problem if he leaves too early before the club had a true chance at developing him (ex. Wellington Silva)

I hear you. Players leaving at 17, 18, 19, is a huge mistake. Hernanes' was a good example. He's destroying at Lazio now.
rsinatra
rsinatra
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Sunderland
Posts : 2201
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

My reflection on Brazilian and South American football - Page 2 Empty Re: My reflection on Brazilian and South American football

Post by Sushi Master Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:30 pm

Catracho wrote:
Sushi Master wrote:I conceed on the history. SA football history is not my strong point. There are pretty much clubs dedicated to poaching SA talent (Palermo, Udinese, Liga clubs). I can see that this wasn't the case before.

Catracho wrote:Sushi you mad bro?

Your a EuroCentric Venezuelan.. So idk whether your comments are just dumb.. or really really biased.

You're saying a NT needs all European players to do well on the International level.. NOOOo Thats only if your league sucks (see Venezuela Laughing)

Unlike Venezuela, Brasileirao is the best league in THE AMERICAS and by a country mile. You also talk of our top players of going Europe.. yea, but there are numerous factors that go into that.. Corrupt officials, Money hungry presidents, clubs in need of money, but now Brasil is starting to get rid of these factors slowly but surely. If it was 2005, I would of bet on Neymar leaving Brazil at 18 for 10 million due to the aforementioned, but now Brazilian presidents and officials have wised up.

Brazilian League now has a steady stream of income without selling players and can accomodate their big name youngsters. They also know what they have in their products, so they don't have the feel to have to sell early (like Coutinho).

Bro, get real. Brazil is not the old Brazil, you will not waltz into Brazil poach a top player for peanuts and leave... not anymore. You will HAVE to pay top dollars for top talent now and as you can see... with neymar, lucas, ganso... this is reality and not bias.

Oh and you must've forgot the Brazilian League was once the best in the world for like 30 years. :coffee:

dwi Sushi.. dwi.

Huh? I did not say that. I said that some countries are doing off better by having their talent poached, as is in our case. Yes, I know our league is shit and I have already stated it. Our talents would never develop as needed without European aid. Argentina, Brazil etc. are obviously a different manner entirely due to having strong leagues and important history.

I don't understand your butthurt defending Brazil. Just saying European clubs have massive money and all that top talent will go if top money is offered. Sure, they're worth more than before but so what? European clubs are still top dog due to the resources they have. Give it time and this will happen less, due to Brazil's improving economy. Yeah, I can see that but just not right now.

its happening right now...

and I'm going to end it at that because if I was to continue with my opinion you'd probably throw your computer at your wall, cuz you might see it as 2muchBlasphemyFor1manToHandle.
Erm, I condeeded the Brazil/Argentina point.

My point is that to smaller countries as mine, it works and we are reaping the rewards.

But I guess you are transparent and the point goes flying right through your head.

It's happening now? Then why was Santos dismantled last season Laughing
Sushi Master
Sushi Master
Fan Favorite
Fan Favorite

Club Supported : Chelsea
Posts : 9392
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 34

Back to top Go down

My reflection on Brazilian and South American football - Page 2 Empty Re: My reflection on Brazilian and South American football

Post by rsinatra Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:45 pm

Ganso wrote:
rsinatra wrote:
Ganso wrote:its impossible/really hard to play joga bonito atm,we havent seen it since the 80's (even though i think it never existed in the first place)

Yesterday Robinho got trashed on the chat room for doing a trick,simply because it led to nothing.A lot of things have changed,from the overall mentality to tactics....

Jogo bonito is not all about tricks though. Watch the 1982 Brazil play at the WC (you can download the full matches online like I did), there weren't really tricks like Robinho likes to do, or Ronaldinho, Ronaldo. There were some classy passes, and perhaps a few "normal" tricks, but the jogo bonito is about the team play, the passing speed, the one-touch thing, the movement, the high level technique, etc. Basically, I think it's impossible to expect a jogo bonito team these days (it died with Brazil in that match against Italy in 82), but I think that Barcelona's team has created a modern "jogo bonito" way, and if they can do it, others can, they just to adopt their philosophy and be patient.... and perhaps have some money lol

btw, I heard that the current Copa Sudamericana winnes Universidad de Chile play some very nice football.. Juca Kfouri and Vitor Birner went as far as saying that they are currently the best South American club side. But will probably get dismantled now that the cup is over.
they pressure a lot like barca,ive seen their games,but they are selling their best player,Vargas,to Napoli so i dont see them doing much next season,after all libertadores>>sudamericana.

about the tricks,well yeah but the tricks are the main thing about joga bonito ,if passing and high speed football is joga bonito then we could say Germany plays JB.

Also,sometime i wonder if im the only one who doesnt find Barca football attractive,i mean the vs Santos match was awesome but most of the time they basically keep passing without an objective and make fouls just to break counters,they basically dont want the opponent to play which pretty much "kills" football,its not entertaining for me

Actually, some people say that Germany atm is the closest there is to the true Brazilian football of old (on NT level).

But when I mean high speed I dont mean EPL-like running like crazy, I mean just a quick passing game, one-touch passing, with class, technique, and that's what Barça does. Did you see the way Xavi stopped the ball before assisting Messi with their first goal yesterday? Or the way Iniesta does things at times? No extravagant tricks, just true class. That's where I think many young Brazilians are mistaken: jogo bonito is not about the extravagant individual tricks. Its not, it's about individual skill leading into classy team play.

Here's some examples of how I view "jogo bonito":



And here



Or here



edit: about Barça, I do agree that at times it gets a little boring, because it's too one-sided. But I think that usually it's very nice to watch. They've said it themselves: they keep the ball so the other team can't play. That second half on their 3-1 win against R. Madrid was a football masterclass.


Last edited by rsinatra on Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
rsinatra
rsinatra
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Sunderland
Posts : 2201
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

My reflection on Brazilian and South American football - Page 2 Empty Re: My reflection on Brazilian and South American football

Post by rsinatra Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:48 pm

Sushi Master wrote:
Catracho wrote:
Sushi Master wrote:I conceed on the history. SA football history is not my strong point. There are pretty much clubs dedicated to poaching SA talent (Palermo, Udinese, Liga clubs). I can see that this wasn't the case before.

Catracho wrote:Sushi you mad bro?

Your a EuroCentric Venezuelan.. So idk whether your comments are just dumb.. or really really biased.

You're saying a NT needs all European players to do well on the International level.. NOOOo Thats only if your league sucks (see Venezuela Laughing)

Unlike Venezuela, Brasileirao is the best league in THE AMERICAS and by a country mile. You also talk of our top players of going Europe.. yea, but there are numerous factors that go into that.. Corrupt officials, Money hungry presidents, clubs in need of money, but now Brasil is starting to get rid of these factors slowly but surely. If it was 2005, I would of bet on Neymar leaving Brazil at 18 for 10 million due to the aforementioned, but now Brazilian presidents and officials have wised up.

Brazilian League now has a steady stream of income without selling players and can accomodate their big name youngsters. They also know what they have in their products, so they don't have the feel to have to sell early (like Coutinho).

Bro, get real. Brazil is not the old Brazil, you will not waltz into Brazil poach a top player for peanuts and leave... not anymore. You will HAVE to pay top dollars for top talent now and as you can see... with neymar, lucas, ganso... this is reality and not bias.

Oh and you must've forgot the Brazilian League was once the best in the world for like 30 years. :coffee:

dwi Sushi.. dwi.

Huh? I did not say that. I said that some countries are doing off better by having their talent poached, as is in our case. Yes, I know our league is shit and I have already stated it. Our talents would never develop as needed without European aid. Argentina, Brazil etc. are obviously a different manner entirely due to having strong leagues and important history.

I don't understand your butthurt defending Brazil. Just saying European clubs have massive money and all that top talent will go if top money is offered. Sure, they're worth more than before but so what? European clubs are still top dog due to the resources they have. Give it time and this will happen less, due to Brazil's improving economy. Yeah, I can see that but just not right now.

its happening right now...

and I'm going to end it at that because if I was to continue with my opinion you'd probably throw your computer at your wall, cuz you might see it as 2muchBlasphemyFor1manToHandle.
Erm, I condeeded the Brazil/Argentina point.

My point is that to smaller countries as mine, it works and we are reaping the rewards.

But I guess you are transparent and the point goes flying right through your head.

It's happening now? Then why was Santos dismantled last season Laughing

We were somewhat, but we kept our two best players and one Brazil's two best players atm: Neymar and Ganso. That's never happened before.

@Catracho, I also think we have to stop looking only at Southern Brazil. There's a lot of quality in Northern/Northeastern Brazil. Hernanes comes from there, so dos Ganso, Juninho Pernambucano, and so did Socrates. We need structure to develop those players correctly!
rsinatra
rsinatra
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Sunderland
Posts : 2201
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

My reflection on Brazilian and South American football - Page 2 Empty Re: My reflection on Brazilian and South American football

Post by Catracho Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:39 pm

rsinatra wrote:
Sushi Master wrote:
Catracho wrote:
Sushi Master wrote:I conceed on the history. SA football history is not my strong point. There are pretty much clubs dedicated to poaching SA talent (Palermo, Udinese, Liga clubs). I can see that this wasn't the case before.

Catracho wrote:Sushi you mad bro?

Your a EuroCentric Venezuelan.. So idk whether your comments are just dumb.. or really really biased.

You're saying a NT needs all European players to do well on the International level.. NOOOo Thats only if your league sucks (see Venezuela Laughing)

Unlike Venezuela, Brasileirao is the best league in THE AMERICAS and by a country mile. You also talk of our top players of going Europe.. yea, but there are numerous factors that go into that.. Corrupt officials, Money hungry presidents, clubs in need of money, but now Brasil is starting to get rid of these factors slowly but surely. If it was 2005, I would of bet on Neymar leaving Brazil at 18 for 10 million due to the aforementioned, but now Brazilian presidents and officials have wised up.

Brazilian League now has a steady stream of income without selling players and can accomodate their big name youngsters. They also know what they have in their products, so they don't have the feel to have to sell early (like Coutinho).

Bro, get real. Brazil is not the old Brazil, you will not waltz into Brazil poach a top player for peanuts and leave... not anymore. You will HAVE to pay top dollars for top talent now and as you can see... with neymar, lucas, ganso... this is reality and not bias.

Oh and you must've forgot the Brazilian League was once the best in the world for like 30 years. :coffee:

dwi Sushi.. dwi.

Huh? I did not say that. I said that some countries are doing off better by having their talent poached, as is in our case. Yes, I know our league is shit and I have already stated it. Our talents would never develop as needed without European aid. Argentina, Brazil etc. are obviously a different manner entirely due to having strong leagues and important history.

I don't understand your butthurt defending Brazil. Just saying European clubs have massive money and all that top talent will go if top money is offered. Sure, they're worth more than before but so what? European clubs are still top dog due to the resources they have. Give it time and this will happen less, due to Brazil's improving economy. Yeah, I can see that but just not right now.

its happening right now...

and I'm going to end it at that because if I was to continue with my opinion you'd probably throw your computer at your wall, cuz you might see it as 2muchBlasphemyFor1manToHandle.
Erm, I condeeded the Brazil/Argentina point.

My point is that to smaller countries as mine, it works and we are reaping the rewards.

But I guess you are transparent and the point goes flying right through your head.

It's happening now? Then why was Santos dismantled last season Laughing

We were somewhat, but we kept our two best players and one Brazil's two best players atm: Neymar and Ganso. That's never happened before.

@Catracho, I also think we have to stop looking only at Southern Brazil. There's a lot of quality in Northern/Northeastern Brazil. Hernanes comes from there, so dos Ganso, Juninho Pernambucano, and so did Socrates. We need structure to develop those players correctly!

I think because most of the big clubs are from the south so its more convenient and the South is more "developed" and the North is too far.

But I agree.. We need to cast a net all over Brazil.
Catracho
Catracho
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Dortmund
Posts : 4235
Join date : 2011-06-06

Back to top Go down

My reflection on Brazilian and South American football - Page 2 Empty Re: My reflection on Brazilian and South American football

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 2 Previous  1, 2

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum