Re: Zidane would not be top-3 player today

by Il Capitano Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:03 am

Meh Iniesta is a good player but he cant do half the things zidane can do with a team.

Iniesta is a good player, and he has alot of similarities that might make people rough into comparisons, and although a bit extreme if taken into a literal sense... i dont think iniesta was half the player zidane was.

Zidane is zidane.

And iniesta is iniesta

Zidane will forever be better than iniesta, and i doubt that will change EVER. make a bet on it if you want.

This thread was made from an unsecure fan, that doesnt like it when people talk about a player not from barcelona being great.

I swear everytime someone mentions a good player, guys like billionmillion come and compare them to barca players.. Laughing

Oh the insecurity...

Bottom Line with no useless arguments.

ZIDANE WINS. Top 3 in the world. If he was in a good team like messi is, even maybe the best.

by kiranr Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:03 am

juventus101 wrote:
And you may be right about Peles team, but the rest would beat this Barca team. Hell, currently,i believe Bayern can beat Barca, and maybe even Germany, who btw are currently better than Spain, and Schweini has shown he can shut down Messi. But even if you did think Barca would win, thinking theyd win comfortably is just ridiculous. Juve and Milan in 2003 were ridiculously strong. Same goes for Italy in 2006, Inter in 2010, etc.

You are plain wrong here. But i am not going to try to change your opinion. I will let Barcelona do it with their game on the pitch.

by jibers Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:04 am

juventus101 wrote:Zidane may not have been as consistent as Xavi, but Zidane was still a veryconsistent player, and he never really declined from his prime much. Xavis been going strong for the last 3 1/2 years. Before Deco and Dinho left, Xavi was good, but not even near this level. When Xavi stays at this level for a whole decade like Zizou did, then he can have a shot at being better. But I thinjeven if you compsre thrm both at their best, Zidane was simply a better player. Xavi has better distribution/vision, Zizous better at everything else.

Drogba missing all of those chances is in his control though, yea its his own fault. But 2 (or was it 3?) clear penalties not being called is out of their control. And I honestly dont remember the Abidal incident so ill take you at yourword, but Chelsea were screwed and I think everyone knows that. Theres a reason Ovrebo was banned for a bit and investigated.

And you may be right about Peles team, but the rest would beat this Barca team. Hell, currently,i believe Bayern can beat Barca, and maybe even Germany, who btw are currently better than Spain, and Schweini has shown he can shut down Messi. But even if you did think Barca would win, thinking theyd win comfortably is just ridiculous. Juve and Milan in 2003 were ridiculously strong. Same goes for Italy in 2006, Inter in 2010, etc.

And I believe Pirlo > Xavi, but thats a whole nother debate in itself, so lets just agree to disagree on that one.

I'm not going to go into team vs teams. At the end of the day those sides were never praised and called the best ever universally. Even Lippi has said they the best ever. We will never know tbh. All I will say is that at dull strength, this Barcelona team is as closets as unbeatable as you can get.

This whole balon dor thing is such a stupid question. I mean what team would zidane be playing for? OP can't just make stuff up tbh.

by Le Samourai Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:10 am

Jibers.........the same guy who has lambasted people numerous times for labelling things "the best ever" is not calling Barcelona "the best ever".

They are the best of this generation............

Zidane was arguably the best of his generation........Iniesta is nowehre near that.

by juventus101 Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:15 am

So because Juve and Milan werent as praised as Barca, they werent as good? Im sorry but thats terrible logic. I already said that Barca played "prettier" football. But Juve and Milan and the others I mentioned were more efficient. They may not have kept the ball on the ground the entire time, played those short, pretty passes, but they were more efficient, and overall better than Barca. I guess well never know for sure, but to say that Barca would win "comfortably" against them is a joke. In my opinion, those teams were better than Barca.

by jibers Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:16 am

ragbirjosh wrote:Jibers.........the same guy who has lambasted people numerous times for labelling things "the best ever" is not calling Barcelona "the best ever".

They are the best of this generation............

Zidane was arguably the best of his generation........Iniesta is nowehre near that.

Lol. True. They are the best team I have ever seen. I'll leave it at that. I was quoting coaches to put it in perspective.

The whole ini vs zidane thing is useless. Invests is a better dribbler, but zidane is better at pretty much everything else. You can't teach leadership which is a big plus. Zidane led by example and was a clutch player.

Ini is clutch but just gets on with it. Zidane was zidane. He is one of the best I have ever seen.

by leemhuis Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:17 am

jibers wrote:
juventus101 wrote:Zidane may not have been as consistent as Xavi, but Zidane was still a veryconsistent player, and he never really declined from his prime much. Xavis been going strong for the last 3 1/2 years. Before Deco and Dinho left, Xavi was good, but not even near this level. When Xavi stays at this level for a whole decade like Zizou did, then he can have a shot at being better. But I thinjeven if you compsre thrm both at their best, Zidane was simply a better player. Xavi has better distribution/vision, Zizous better at everything else.

Drogba missing all of those chances is in his control though, yea its his own fault. But 2 (or was it 3?) clear penalties not being called is out of their control. And I honestly dont remember the Abidal incident so ill take you at yourword, but Chelsea were screwed and I think everyone knows that. Theres a reason Ovrebo was banned for a bit and investigated.

And you may be right about Peles team, but the rest would beat this Barca team. Hell, currently,i believe Bayern can beat Barca, and maybe even Germany, who btw are currently better than Spain, and Schweini has shown he can shut down Messi. But even if you did think Barca would win, thinking theyd win comfortably is just ridiculous. Juve and Milan in 2003 were ridiculously strong. Same goes for Italy in 2006, Inter in 2010, etc.

And I believe Pirlo > Xavi, but thats a whole nother debate in itself, so lets just agree to disagree on that one.

I'm not going to go into team vs teams. At the end of the day those sides were never praised and called the best ever universally. Even Lippi has said they the best ever. We will never know tbh. All I will say is that at dull strength, this Barcelona team is as closets as unbeatable as you can get.

This whole balon dor thing is such a stupid question. I mean what team would zidane be playing for? OP can't just make stuff up tbh.

"While the red-and-black stripes of AC Milan have been graced by dozens of global megastars, Franco Baresi will forever remain the Milanese outfit's greatest icon. In his honour, the Lombardian club announced in July 1997 that Baresi's Number 6 shirt would no longer be allocated.

Throughout his entire career, this exemplary defender wore no other shirt than Milan's. "Why would I have dreamed for a single moment in my career of leaving Milan for another club? I was already playing for the best team in the world," he once explained with a smile.

by jibers Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:20 am

juventus101 wrote:So because Juve and Milan werent as praised as Barca, they werent as good? Im sorry but thats terrible logic. I already said that Barca played "prettier" football. But Juve and Milan and the others I mentioned were more efficient. They may not have kept the ball on the ground the entire time, played those short, pretty passes, but they were more efficient, and overall better than Barca. I guess well never know for sure, but to say that Barca would win "comfortably" against them is a joke. In my opinion, those teams were better than Barca.

Based on what? Overall better? As in more complete? Like Madrid? And you saying that Bayern we better is laughable tbh. Again, juve and Milan wouldn't see the ball. barcelonaare the most efficient team I have ever seen. They defend and attack in the same phase. Let's put it this way Miland and juve would have had to shut up shop to have any chance.

by El Chelsea Fuerte Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:22 am

ijomer wrote:I can't believe this thread is still alive

by jibers Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:23 am

english_jewel wrote:
ijomer wrote:I can't believe this thread is still alive

The OP is trolling. It's like asking would SAF be top manager if he was hired today? Who the bleep knows.

by juventus101 Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:34 am

If you actually think Barca could control the game against thise teams, youre crazy. Buffon, Thuram, Montero, Ferrara, Conte, Tacchinardi, Zambrotta, Nedved, Davids, Del Piero, and Trezeguet all in their primes. Dida, Maldini, Nesta, Pirlo, Gattuso, Seedorf, Sheva, Inzaghi, Riu Costa, all in their primes. Not just more complete, but just better overall. Better at everything, defensively unbreakable, offensively unstoppable. You could make an all time fantasy XI and these teams would still see a decentamount of the ball. If you think theyd be totally controlled by Barca youre nuts. And right now, yes, Bayern can beat Barca, and Germany could maybe as well.

by jibers Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:48 am

juventus101 wrote:If you actually think Barca could control the game against thise teams, youre crazy. Buffon, Thuram, Montero, Ferrara, Conte, Tacchinardi, Zambrotta, Nedved, Davids, Del Piero, and Trezeguet all in their primes. Dida, Maldini, Nesta, Pirlo, Gattuso, Seedorf, Sheva, Inzaghi, Riu Costa, all in their primes. Not just more complete, but just better overall. Better at everything, defensively unbreakable, offensively unstoppable. You could make an all time fantasy XI and these teams would still see a decentamount of the ball. If you think theyd be totally controlled by Barca youre nuts. And right now, yes, Bayern can beat Barca, and Germany could maybe as well.

TBH those teams would give Barca a harder time than all the teams today. Barcelona genrally struggle against Italians. But Barcelona would still see far more of the ball. I reckon Juventus would stand a chance, but not Milan. Wish Jose had stayed at inter 1 more year. They are the only team with Arsenal that has soumdly beaten Barcelona.Bayern right now? Without Basti? Are you crazy? Without him they don't stand a chance and hes out till afetr chritsmas. Bayern Based on what?

by juventus101 Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:51 am

I dont mean right at this minute. I mean at full strength, witb Schweini back. Bayern at full strength have simplybeen unstoppable this season and are playing perfect football. Riberys and Kroos are also in the form of their lives, Robben even off form would tear Abidal a new one, Muller is class Gomez cant stop scoring, and Schweini has already shown he can shut down Messi. Im telling you, if they face off, Bayern will win. You heard it here first.

And Juventus I believe could definitely beat them more often than not, and I believe Milan could also beat them, though I believe even though Milan won the final, Juve were better. But I guess well never really know for sure. Both I dont think Barca could outpossess them. Pirlo, Seedorf, and Gattuso all intheir primes is arguably better than Xavi, Busquets, and Iniesta. And Davids is in my opinion the 2nd best DM ever only after Matthaus, and Tacchinardi and Conte were extremely underrated players. Plus, look what Inter did to Barca in 2010, and Juve '03 and Milan '03 are arguably even better than Inter '10. Granted, that Barca was weaker than 08/09 and 10/11, but it was still extremely strong, and we saw Barcas midfield couldnt control that game, so how could they control Juve or Milan?

by kiranr Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:18 am

juventus101 wrote:

Pirlo, Seedorf, and Gattuso all intheir primes is arguably better than Xavi, Busquets, and Iniesta. And Davids is in my opinion the 2nd best DM ever only after Matthaus, and Tacchinardi and Conte were extremely underrated players. Plus, look what Inter did to Barca in 2010, and Juve '03 and Milan '03 are arguably even better than Inter '10. Granted, that Barca was weaker than 08/09 and 10/11, but it was still extremely strong, and we saw Barcas midfield couldnt control that game, so how could they control Juve or Milan?

Your never fail to provide amusement. Pirlo, Seedorf and Gattuso are better then than Barca midfield? I am sorry. But that is just wrong. The Barca midfield would dominate that midfield so handily, it wont be pretty.

This Barcelona is being compared to Saachi's Milan let alone the above Juve or Milan you are talking about.

To top it off, and this is the most hilarious reasoning i have ever heard, you are basing all this on Inter beating Barcelona in 1 match at the San Siro. I love the delusion.

Please do continue....

by CBarca Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:22 am

I love basing judgments of teams based on one game over a year ago.

Oh wait...

Not to mention the ironic thing that Iniesta wasn't playing that game Smile

by BiasedMilanFan3 Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:29 am

OP deserves a billionmillion facepalms

by juventus101 Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:33 am

Yes. Pirlo, Seedorf, Gattuso > Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets. For thesake of argument, lets say Pirlo and Xavi are equals. Seedorf and Iniesta are also equals in my opinion, but Gattuso would wipe the floor witb Busquets. Not to mention Maldini and Nesta in their primes was one of, if not the best central defensive partnership ever.

And when else has Barca played a high level Italian team that we could compare to Milan or Juve? Never. Except that Inter game. Where Barca lost.

by Albiceleste Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:34 am

juventus101 wrote:I dont mean right at this minute. I mean at full strength, witb Schweini back. Bayern at full strength have simplybeen unstoppable this season and are playing perfect football. Riberys and Kroos are also in the form of their lives, Robben even off form would tear Abidal a new one, Muller is class Gomez cant stop scoring, and Schweini has already shown he can shut down Messi. Im telling you, if they face off, Bayern will win. You heard it here first.

And Juventus I believe could definitely beat them more often than not, and I believe Milan could also beat them, though I believe even though Milan won the final, Juve were better. But I guess well never really know for sure. Both I dont think Barca could outpossess them. Pirlo, Seedorf, and Gattuso all intheir primes is arguably better than Xavi, Busquets, and Iniesta. And Davids is in my opinion the 2nd best DM ever only after Matthaus, and Tacchinardi and Conte were extremely underrated players. Plus, look what Inter did to Barca in 2010, and Juve '03 and Milan '03 are arguably even better than Inter '10. Granted, that Barca was weaker than 08/09 and 10/11, but it was still extremely strong, and we saw Barcas midfield couldnt control that game, so how could they control Juve or Milan?

I wrote a reply but I deleted it because no more words are needed than the single emoticon.

by kiranr Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:43 am

juventus101 wrote:Yes. Pirlo, Seedorf, Gattuso > Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets. For thesake of argument, lets say Pirlo and Xavi are equals. Seedorf and Iniesta are also equals in my opinion, but Gattuso would wipe the floor witb Busquets. Not to mention Maldini and Nesta in their primes was one of, if not the best central defensive partnership ever.

And when else has Barca played a high level Italian team that we could compare to Milan or Juve? Never. Except that Inter game. Where Barca lost.

They lost only 1 game against Inter. It was an important match, but it was just 1 game. Play them 10 times, Barcelona would have won 7 times. I have no doubts.

You cannot compare Busquets and Gattuso as individuals. Their role is very different. IMO, Busquets is better at his role than Gattuso. You are just going about the arguments in ways that are erroneous but suiting your stand nonetheless. The Barcelona midfield as a whole would dominate the Milan or Juve midfield. They would not see much of the ball.

What is a high level Italian team? How is it defined?

by CBarca Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:46 am

Kiranr...it's not worth your time.

LM has the right idea.

by ijomer Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:48 am

LOL OT: who is OP Razz

anyways, such a comparison is naive, because iniesta has not finished his career yet... but as of right now, he is not anywhere near Zidane's level, especially when it comes to leadership, moral booster, game controler and big game player.

When Iniesta is 33, bump this thread up Smile

/thread

by juventus101 Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:05 am

So the one time this Barca team has faced a strong Italian side worth comparing to Milan or Juve of 03, they lost. But it doesnt matter, because it was only one game and according to you, which holds no ground whatsoever by the way, they wouldve won 7 times out of 10. Well guess what? They played once, and lost once.

I cant believe I forgot it, but the only other time theyve faced an Italian team worth mentioning was against Milan twice thus season. This Milan team is significantly weaker, especially in midfield, than Milan or Juve of '03, or even Inter, and yet this Milan still saw plenty of the ball. And both games were struggles for Barca, drawing one and barely winning one.

So they lose to a very strong Inter squad in 2010. Within the last couple months struggle against a decently strong Milan squad twice, winning once narrowly by one goal and drawing the other. I think its safe to say if Barca would play a Milan or Juve of 2003 thats Far stronger than this Milan of 2011 and even the Inter of 2010, that Barca would lose.

And are you actually trying to tell me that Busquets is as good as Gattuso? You gonna tell me hes as good as Davids next? LOL. What a joke.

by Albiceleste Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:19 am

juventus101 wrote:So the one time this Barca team has faced a strong Italian side worth comparing to Milan or Juve of 03, they lost. But it doesnt matter, because it was only one game and according to you, which holds no ground whatsoever by the way, they wouldve won 7 times out of 10. Well guess what? They played once, and lost once. Barcelona beat Inter twice in the 2009/10 Champions league, Inter only beat them once and Barcelona should have imo gone through to the final.

I cant believe I forgot it, but the only other time theyve faced an Italian team worth mentioning was against Milan twice thus season. This Milan team is significantly weaker, especially in midfield, than Milan or Juve of '03, or even Inter, and yet this Milan still saw plenty of the ball. And both games were struggles for Barca, drawing one and barely winning one. Barely winning? Talk about barely winning, Inter barely scraped past Barca because of Bojan's goal being disallowed, not to mention Diego Milito's offside goal and a stonewall penalty on dani alves, which if any of those referee decisions were called correctly, Barcelona would have won the tie.

So they lose to a very strong Inter squad in 2010. Once, but we beat them twice. Within the last couple months struggle against a decently strong Milan squad twice, winning once narrowly by one goal and drawing the other. I think its safe to say if Barca would play a Milan or Juve of 2003 thats Far stronger than this Milan of 2011 and even the Inter of 2010, that Barca would lose. This speculation is pointless and irrelevant, and it's funny how much you underrated this Barcelona side, don't worry though, I'm sure your predictions of Bayern walking all over Barca will come true.

And are you actually trying to tell me that Busquets is as good as Gattuso? You gonna tell me hes as good as Davids next? LOL. What a joke.

Now jog it on, son.

by juventus101 Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:31 am

Alright first off theres no reason for insults. It really just makes you look childish when you throw out insults like that. Just letting you know.

Secondly, if you want to talk about bad refereeing decisions, then Barca definitely shouldve been out of the CL against Chelsea in 08/09 and probably against Arsenal last year as well.

Third, I didnt know Barca beat Inter. But Inter still beat them as well, and this years Milan, which is decently strong no doubt, but is very weak in midfield, really made Barca struggle, and saw plenty of the ball. And remember that the Juve and Milab of 03 are ALOT stronger than this years Milan or even Inter from 2 seasons ago.

And im a Juve supporter, so I hate Inter. But Inter deserved to be in the CL final at the very least that year, even if I believe Bayern were better. But saying Barca deserved the trophy is ridiculous. They lost when it mattered. Even though I feel Bayern were stronger than Inter, they also lost when it mattered. So Inter deserved it.

by Lord Hades Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:45 am

if barca were the poor team you are making them out to be, surely we wouldve beaten them at least once out the 11 clasicos no? Rolling Eyes

and op, your deep insecurity towards zidane because he is the one midfielder in the last generation people can compare to xavi iniesta and messi is laughable.. get a life dude, people's opinions wont change because of your ill thought, illogical and bullshit arguements

by juventus101 Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:53 am

Im not a Barca hater or Real supporter. I cheer for Real when they play just out of the mutual respect that has always been there between Juve and Real (and im a fan of Ozil), but im not a Barca hater. And I never said theyre crappy or implied that atall. I even said theyre an awesome team, and they really are, I just think theres a few teams out there that were better than them, namely Milan and Juve of 2003, among others. But this Barca said are an incredible side for sure, just not as good as those teams I mentioned, but theres no shame in that. Everyones getting so defensive. All im saying is theyre overrated. But theyre still a great team, theres no denying that.

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