Moggi: "I'm a scapegoat"

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Post by DeviAngel Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:36 pm

Luciano Moggi claims he is “a scapegoat” for Calciopoli after his civil trial result and slammed Juventus for turning on him.

The former Bianconeri director general was found guilty of sporting fraud by the Naples Tribunal last night and handed a five year and four month sentence, though it’s unlikely he will spend any of that time in prison.

“I didn’t expect this after all the evidence I provided in my defence, but probably the sentence was already written,” he told Radio Kiss Kiss Napoli.

“There are some shocking incongruities and we will certainly take this matter to an appeals court.”

Moggi and his lawyers claimed he could not have been at the head of an organisation to favour Juventus, Lazio and Fiorentina, because almost all the clubs – including Inter – regularly called referees.

“I hope the phrase ‘the law is equal for all men’ proves to be true. I am disappointed, obviously. After this trial I feel like a scapegoat.

“I have always lived for football, now this world has been torn away from me.”

Moggi was particularly riled by the reaction of Juventus, who released a statement claiming the trial verdict proved their “non-involvement” in the Calciopoli case.

“It is very strange if they washed their hands of it, seeing as Juventus went on to the field with their players and it certainly wasn’t Moggi on that pitch.

“In any case, Juve were a team of great champions and Ballon d’Or winners like Pavel Nedved, Zinedine Zidane and Fabio Cannavaro, plus an icon like Alessandro Del Piero.”

This week Zlatan Ibrahimovic also commented on the Calciopoli scandal and the two titles revoked from Juventus.

“It was all rubbish. The truth is our team was so strong that they had to take us down,” he wrote in his autobiography.
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Post by Vibe Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:44 pm

Shocked

Juventus handed them his ass and escaped clean...
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Post by Luca Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:45 pm

VibeTribe wrote: Shocked

Juventus handed them his ass and escaped clean...

What?

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Post by CroInter Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:03 pm

Luca wrote:
VibeTribe wrote: Shocked

Juventus handed them his ass and escaped clean...

What?

Maybe this?


Moggi was particularly riled by the reaction of Juventus, who released a statement claiming the trial verdict proved their “non-involvement” in the Calciopoli case.

“It is very strange if they washed their hands of it, seeing as Juventus went on to the field with their players and it certainly wasn’t Moggi on that pitch.
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Post by Luca Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:08 pm

Yeah, I just don't get what you mean?
Do you mean Juventus washed their hands of Moggi?
I don't recall an official statement from Juventus called for Moggi to be innocent, only for equal treatment under the law with reference to the punishment being too severe for Juventus compared the the punishments handed down to other clubs involved.
Additionally, the Italian civil code article that was the applicable law to Moggi may clash with Italian sports law this is what the club's statement was hinting at but the exact article of Italian sport law was not named so I cannot comment.
If that is the case, that the two clash it will be an interesting case to bring up from Juventus' point of view.
What I mean is, the civil code states that the individual (Moggi) acting on behalf of the corporation (Juventus) is liable for his actions. Now, if Juventus could prove that Moggi was acting on his own accord it may be interesting.
Really it just depends on the Italian sport law article in question, I wish it was named for my own curiosity.

Sorry for wall of text, just theorizing

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Post by Camurrìa.Sto.Stronzo Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:16 pm

You know what I think, it seems to be that I'm the Luciano Moggi of this section. Found guilty for every little thing and yet it's not true. You see, in relation to Moggi, Morratti should also be guilty, but sadly he's not. So at the end, we both get blamed for it.
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Post by CroInter Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:20 pm

Camurrìa.Sto.Stronzo wrote:You know what I think, it seems to be that I'm the Luciano Moggi of this section. Found guilty for every little thing and yet it's not true. You see, in relation to Moggi, Morratti should also be guilty, but sadly he's not. So at the end, we both get blamed for it.

Dude, Moratti didnt do shit, or at least they dont have anything on him, you have no clue what so ever what ur talking about, he wasnt even president of Inter at that time, every thing they "got" on Inter is on Fachetti.
You need some serious education about the matter.

P.S this is how you talk mostly to ppl around here.....
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Post by Tomwin Lannister Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:32 pm

Interesting theory Luca.

Seeing as Moggi won't be doing any ACTUAL jail time, he should take the hit for Juve and we can all move on.
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Post by Luca Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:03 pm

Well as a legal studies student, that is how I would approach on Juventus' behalf and that is what their official statement online was hinting out (article 2049 Italian civil code and Italian sport law, exact article not named unfortunately)

Like I said if one could prove that Moggi did those things on his own, without the consent or knowledge of the Juventus hierarchy then there is definitely a case.

All this is strictly my opinion
Also, we have to be as impartial as possible, so ignore Moratti, ignore Moggi for the most part just look at what this decision means for Juventus and their appeal efforts.

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Post by Luca Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:05 pm

I posted this in the general football section thread about Moggi (where us Juventus fans were given credit for the concept of 'innocent until proven guilty' and the appeal process, which was rather gratifying, to leave that imprint on so many legal systems)

Proceedings in Naples. Official Company note

Today’s decision stated Juventus’ non involvement with the matters charged. The Club was taken to the court of Naples as civilly liable entity by way of objective liability according to Art. 2049 Italian Civil Code. The decision emerged from the result of a thorough hearing and from the analysis of all evidences, clashed with the reality of an inaccurate sports law which severely penalized Juventus, the sole club damaged due to the removal of two titles - following the victories achieved on the pitch - with consequent relegation and related extensive losses. Juventus will continue their legitimate campaigns in order to restore the equality of treatment.

Its not over

according to Article 2049 of the Italian Civil Code, corporations bear civil liability for wrongdoings committed by directors, officers and employees in performing the activities carried out for the corporation, jointly and severally with such individuals

I'm guessing this clashes with Italian sport law that is applicable but I cannot find the exact law, then it just comes done to which law holds more weight.

Thread if you missed it:
https://goallegacy.forumotion.com/t11735p36-luciano-moggi-found-guilty

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Post by JuvenelCuore Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:06 pm

CroInter wrote:
Camurrìa.Sto.Stronzo wrote:You know what I think, it seems to be that I'm the Luciano Moggi of this section. Found guilty for every little thing and yet it's not true. You see, in relation to Moggi, Morratti should also be guilty, but sadly he's not. So at the end, we both get blamed for it.

Dude, Moratti didnt do shit, or at least they dont have anything on him, you have no clue what so ever what ur talking about, he wasnt even president of Inter at that time, every thing they "got" on Inter is on Fachetti.
You need some serious education about the matter.

P.S this is how you talk mostly to ppl around here.....

Have you even seen the court documents ? Or do you rely on Google Translate ? For your information, I have seen them...replicas, obviously, but nonetheless, I have read them. :coffee:
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Post by Luca Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:09 pm

^^ They aren't replicas, the official documents are posted from the original trial, Moggi was on trial separately but I am sure those are out there as well.

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Post by JuvenelCuore Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:12 pm

Luca wrote:^^ They aren't replicas, the official documents are posted from the original trial, Moggi was on trial separately but I am sure those are out there as well.

No, no, I mean replicas as in they were not the ones used in the trial. Do not want people to get the wrong idea and think I am bragging about having touched the stamped ones in person or whatever...I have them, obviously not the original is what I am saying Luca. :coffee:
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Post by DeviAngel Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:13 pm

What a Face
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Post by Luca Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:17 pm

Oh, I thought you meant replica as in not official, because they still very much are.
I don't know if one could even get their hands on the official documents, that would be interesting.

To those with knowledge regarding Italian law/the legal system or just a pro-google searcher the documents can be found but are only in Italian. I've read through the original trial, with the help of my mother, for a school project. It is the courts case, decisions, reasons, witness, evidence used.

Fun fact, the main evidence in the case were illegally obtained wire taps, if this case happened in Canada or the United States it would be thrown out so fast. The Italian legal system allows it because without it there is literally no case.

Also, Italian sports law at the time allowed the contact between directors and referees.
Not to mention decisions that were in favour of Juventus were examined and not confirmed to really be true (they looked at instances in games where say Genoa- Udinese played, and Juventus would play Udinese the next week, it was claimed that Udinese players were given cards to be suspended for the following Juventus game but this was not found to be true)

Anyways, the trial I read through did not directly against Moggi, just the referees and other teams involved but Moggi was very involved.

Just some information, for those fluent in Italian it is an interesting read for those interested in the subject. The trials are out there.

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Post by Camurrìa.Sto.Stronzo Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:22 pm

Who knew this audio tapes didn't involve Morratti? :coffee:
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Post by JuvenelCuore Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:24 pm

Luca wrote:Oh, I thought you meant replica as in not official, because they still very much are.
I don't know if one could even get their hands on the official documents, that would be interesting.

To those with knowledge regarding Italian law/the legal system or just a pro-google searcher the documents can be found but are only in Italian. I've read through the original trial, with the help of my mother, for a school project. It is the courts case, decisions, reasons, witness, evidence used.

Fun fact, the main evidence in the case were illegally obtained wire taps, if this case happened in Canada or the United States it would be thrown out so fast. The Italian legal system allows it because without it there is literally no case.

Also, Italian sports law at the time allowed the contact between directors and referees.
Not to mention decisions that were in favour of Juventus were examined and not confirmed to really be true (they looked at instances in games where say Genoa- Udinese played, and Juventus would play Udinese the next week, it was claimed that Udinese players were given cards to be suspended for the following Juventus game but this was not found to be true)

Anyways, the trial I read through did not directly against Moggi, just the referees and other teams involved but Moggi was very involved.

Just some information, for those fluent in Italian it is an interesting read for those interested in the subject. The trials are out there.

That is why I made a point of saying replica, because if not people would assume I was bragging to have handled the actual documents or whatever. They are official, just re-printings.

The wiretaps were recorded illegally as you said, as Moratti utilized his ties with telephone company Telecom, and had Inter players sign contracts promising not to reveal the information of how it was obtained, and other things of the kind.

Fun fact as well is that recently, I believe a year or two ago at most, Telecom employees were found guilty of tape editing prior to the trial, but once again, Italian law seems to overlook things like this due to Berlusconi's power most likely.

You are correct in that whenever they needed something to persecute Juventus about, they would take obscure situations and try to make it seem like Juventus needed the added effort. Yes, because with the talent the team had, they really needed to get the edge over high and mighty Udinese. It was really a pathetic effort.

Honestly, I do not know how Luciano Moggi has not gone insane yet. When I read them, I was frustrated to bits, and I can only imagine Luciano Moggi, who was actually affected by this, would have gone crazy.

Oh well. The Calciopoli cycle has ended for Inter. Fighting relegation. :coffee:
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Post by Luca Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:29 pm

Yeah, I remember most (all maybe) of the decisions claimed in favour of Juventus were found untrue.
Like the player who was 'supposed' to be suspended for the Juventus game was actually suspended like games before the Juventus game and played against Juventus.

Just silly things like that.
I'm not touching Inter with a ten foot pole, just focusing on the trial and Juventus.

The argument Juventus has is equality before the law and inconsistencies in Italian sport law and the civil code will help that case.

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Post by JuvenelCuore Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:31 pm

Remember also, Luca, that Luciano Moggi's wiretaps were conveniently disallowed from being heard in the courtroom. Not that it would have mattered with a selectively exclusive jury that would favor Milanese sides and punish Juventus. :coffee:
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Post by Luca Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:33 pm

Yeah thats true, pretty much all of Moggi's wiretaps were disallowed if I remember correctly. To be honest, I followed the original trial more than just Moggi's trial.

Anyways, its not over yet.

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Post by CroInter Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:35 pm

Camurrìa.Sto.Stronzo wrote:Who knew this audio tapes didn't involve Morratti? :coffee:

There is difference beatwen having tapes of you and whats on them, do you know that?
If so that anyone who has "tape" on him is guilty, there would be like 200 ppl guilty now, its whats on them is what matters.

Only tapes they have agaisnt Inter that they(Moggi and his defence) are trying to involve Inter are with Facchetti.

Maybe you should go check with ur friend from true fan club, he says Moratti did it all, but then you say there are tapes of him, you need to get ur shit together, if he did it all then why he wiretapd himself, wtf, im confused Sad
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Post by Cotes Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:37 pm

just give us back our damn scudetto!
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Post by CroInter Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:40 pm

Cotes wrote:just give us back our damn scudetto!

You need to be patient, so far you only used 49 courts, maybe at 50th you will have more luck. Pacienza my friend Pacienza.
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Post by Luca Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:43 pm

Pazienza is on the bench where he belongs

Moggi: "I'm a scapegoat"  Pazienza-110723

Oh and cro, that doesn't mean anything, the appeal process exists for a reason and the next level of court can always deny hearing the appeals, they are being accepted for a reason (to this point) so 49, 3, 27 courts, doesn't matter until it is said and done.

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Post by Cotes Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:44 pm

Luca wrote:Pazienza is on the bench where he belongs

Moggi: "I'm a scapegoat"  Pazienza-110723

Oh and cro, that doesn't mean anything, the appeal process exists for a reason and the next level of court can always deny hearing the appeals, they are being accepted for a reason (to this point) so 49, 3, 27 courts, doesn't matter until it is said and done.

LoL...
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