Is Al Pacino too good to play DM?

Is Sergio Busquets too good to be playing as a DM?
Dont get me wrong.He is a terrific DM.He is tactically perfect and cuts out attacks before they begin.

But imo he is too good to play as a DM.His skill and technique are phenomenal.He has ridiculous close control
His passing is fantastic.He is the best first touch passer in the world.Can play short,long,through balls.And he has started passing with his left too.Quite good at it.

I have been saying for a while that Fab cant replace Xavi.Once Xavi retires I think Busquets is the perfect candidate to replace him.He has got many of the same qualities.Same ability in tight spaces.Same elusive movement(which is what makes Xavi impossible to man mark).Outrageous passing ability.
He cant control games like Xavi(but then who can) but I am sure that under the tutelage of the maestro he can learn to be excellent at it.Ofcourse I dont think there will ever be another Xavi but Busquets imo can get the closest to him.

If Sergi Roberto is all he is cracked up to be,then Busquets needs to be moved up the pitch imo.Cause he is just too damn good to be playing DM.Whats the general consensus on this?I am curious to know how many agree with me.

On a sidenote its an absolute travesty that Busquets didnt make the Ballon D'Or shortlist.He was the best midfielder in the world last season and still didnt get nominated.Its a shame and I think him being a DM was partly the reason he didnt get nominated.

Busquets Romeu Thiago

would be nice to see how it works in the future

lol

anyway, imo Thiago is the player to replace Xavi, Busquets is doing great job as a DM, so no need to change his position.. maybe in 2 years, when Xavi gets older & we can have Romeu back ( who is doing great at chelsea ).. we could try it.. but not now..

I prefer Thiago to"replace" Xavi. I was suspect at first because he is a risk taker and dare devil, but his pass completion rate is so high and add to the fact once he gets a little older and wiser he will pick his moments even better.

Busquets is "too good" to be limited to short easy passes and never really making a mark in the final third, however he has the perfect mindset for it. I can say from personal experience, being a DM, its very hard not to try and do things you are very capable off just so you can play an easier pass and get things moving quicker. He has the perfect mentality for it. He can do other stuff, but he chooses not to.

Why I wouldnt want him to play further forward? He doesnt have the quickness and tightness of turn to get out of tight situations like Xavi or even Thiago.

Thats not to say he is completely devoid of that ability, I remember a game against Villarreal in which he did some amazing things and totally ripped Senna.

Its not a knock on him, its just Thiago is better at those sorts of things.

The little I have seen of Sergi Roberto, he seems to be a little bit more of a runner and mover. I dont know if he will ever be a single holding player, but at this point im guessing.

I think in many other teams, Busi would play further forward. But for us and what we have, I prefer not.

The Franchise wrote:I prefer Thiago to"replace" Xavi. I was suspect at first because he is a risk taker and dare devil, but his pass completion rate is so high and add to the fact once he gets a little older and wiser he will pick his moments even better.

I see you see it my way now, never doubt my all knowing brilliance again

Yours faithfully,

Mole.

I wont lie Mole, I dont recall you saying that lol

I am getting old, you now see why I wanted to avoid all 25th Birthday talk..my memory is fading faster then Robbens hairline.

The Franchise wrote:I wont lie Mole, I dont recall you saying that lol

I am getting old, you now see why I wanted to avoid all 25th Birthday talk..my memory is fading faster then Robbens hairline.

In 3 and a bit years ill be old too

I remember having this discussion with Deepak, Dani and with you as well Alex.

All of us agreed upon the fact that labeling Busi as a DM would be an insult to his abilities as DM's in general are mostly physical beings compared to the technically bestowed Busquets.

Busi's intelligence, movement, awareness and passing is the essential catalyst to Barca's plays as he is the driving force and thought from deep that initiates the whole successive momentum and build up. His positioning and calculative passes are the inception to Xavi's build up along with his ability to carve out space for Iniesta the most.

He isn't a DM simply because he does not have the physical ability to be capable as one.

But like Deepak and Alex, I am a huge fan of players who like many Italians as well, are purely reliant on their technical ability rather then the physical aspect.

I feel Busi at the moment by the hand of Guardiola is actually playing Pep's role that he used to play. Which is more of a CM really he is kept deeper then usual but can also defend.

If you were to ask Pep and his foundation, they would tell you Keita is their only DM on paper as that is why is essentially brought in.

Xavi is not the heir to Pep, Busquets is.

I feel this role suits him and brings out many of his qualities.

Yet, he does possess the ability to venture in other positions arguably.

He was the 2nd best midfielder out of all last year and who says he cannot.

But for NOW, he should remain in this role mostly due to his importance and effectiveness within that given role itself.

BTW, I am a huge fan of Pacino yet I wonder why is he being labeled after him? Just curious.

It's what Alex called him after all the acting Busquets did in the Clasico's lol......

Immaculate_Mole wrote:It's what Alex called him after all the acting Busquets did in the Clasico's lol......

Ah... Well its good to see a Barca fan admit some of the more embarrassing aspects of their players.

funny reference though.

Alfred, Thiago plays differently then xavi, IMO he is much more direct, more like inesta. Busquets has pin point passing and supreme intelligence on the field, but he is very, very slow. He is also not strong despite being quite tall.

Busquets is tall slow version of Xavi. If theres only man who can replace xavi its busquets. xavi is a safe passer but busquets loves to make risky passes like iniesta and fabregas. I'd play him in front and make him superstar player, but then who will dominate DM and defence which is important at barca's possession game. Between defence and midfield its busquets area, he dominates the game in that area.
Tiago is like mix of iniesta and fabregas, he will not pass the ball back and sides too much..he is willing to attack and create danger. at possession play busquets is better than him

I see the myth Thiago cant play the Xavi role, because he is supposedly too direct when he considtently has over 90% success rate with his passing.....

Is still alive and well

Giggity5313 wrote:Alfred, Thiago plays differently then xavi, IMO he is much more direct, more like inesta. Busquets has pin point passing and supreme intelligence on the field, but he is very, very slow. He is also not strong despite being quite tall.

I haven't posted in this thread?

And I really don't see the resemblance with Al Pacino either

SPOILER: For people who haven't watched Scent of a Woman yet...this is one of the ending scenes. I highly recommend you watch the movie though, fantastic movie. I don't know if this will ruin it too much, but just putting this spoiler in anyway



YEAH HE'S TOO GOOD LISTEN TO THE SPEECH

But seriously, I've often talked about Busquets being good enough to fill in Xavi's position. We've all talked about it before, and I being a big Busquets fan (too much haha) am 100% certain he CAN play that position, and excel in it too. Not in the same way as Xavi, but he can certainly fill that position excellently- and he's young yet, he may just blossom into that position and grow to be as good as Xavi. I doubt it, but anything's possible. He's a fantastic young player.

However, do I think he should play that role? I'm kind of undecided. I really think he can. If you want my honest opinion, it depends on Sergi Roberto of course. But if Roberto is as good as he can be, then I really think Busquets and Thiago should battle each other for that spot. As long as Cesc doesn't get it, I'm fine. That is not a Cesc role.

Both Thiago and Busquets are fully capable of that role, so I think it's only fair both are given a fair shot and whoever is better comes out the winner. If it is Thiago, Busquets can take back his DM spot

Thiago can play the Xavi role though, not as well, but he can. And he'll get better at it in time.

The Franchise wrote:I prefer Thiago to"replace" Xavi. I was suspect at first because he is a risk taker and dare devil, but his pass completion rate is so high and add to the fact once he gets a little older and wiser he will pick his moments even better.

Busquets is "too good" to be limited to short easy passes and never really making a mark in the final third, however he has the perfect mindset for it. I can say from personal experience, being a DM, its very hard not to try and do things you are very capable off just so you can play an easier pass and get things moving quicker. He has the perfect mentality for it. He can do other stuff, but he chooses not to.

Why I wouldnt want him to play further forward? He doesnt have the quickness and tightness of turn to get out of tight situations like Xavi or even Thiago.

Thats not to say he is completely devoid of that ability, I remember a game against Villarreal in which he did some amazing things and totally ripped Senna.

Its not a knock on him, its just Thiago is better at those sorts of things.

The little I have seen of Sergi Roberto, he seems to be a little bit more of a runner and mover. I dont know if he will ever be a single holding player, but at this point im guessing.

I think in many other teams, Busi would play further forward. But for us and what we have, I prefer not.

dani
The question was not whether Barca fans prefer him to play DM?It was whether Busquets is too good to be playing DM?
Some might have misunderstood the question.

Also why do you say that he doesnt have the quickness or tightness of turn to get out of turn situations.
I think he is brilliant in tight situations.Has ridiculous close control and can only be stripped of the ball by fouling.He earns quite a lot of fouls this way.

Arquitecto wrote:I remember having this discussion with Deepak, Dani and with you as well Alex.

All of us agreed upon the fact that labeling Busi as a DM would be an insult to his abilities as DM's in general are mostly physical beings compared to the technically bestowed Busquets.

Busi's intelligence, movement, awareness and passing is the essential catalyst to Barca's plays as he is the driving force and thought from deep that initiates the whole successive momentum and build up. His positioning and calculative passes are the inception to Xavi's build up along with his ability to carve out space for Iniesta the most.

He isn't a DM simply because he does not have the physical ability to be capable as one.

But like Deepak and Alex, I am a huge fan of players who like many Italians as well, are purely reliant on their technical ability rather then the physical aspect.

I feel Busi at the moment by the hand of Guardiola is actually playing Pep's role that he used to play. Which is more of a CM really he is kept deeper then usual but can also defend.

If you were to ask Pep and his foundation, they would tell you Keita is their only DM on paper as that is why is essentially brought in.

Xavi is not the heir to Pep, Busquets is.

I feel this role suits him and brings out many of his qualities.

Yet, he does possess the ability to venture in other positions arguably.

He was the 2nd best midfielder out of all last year and who says he cannot.

But for NOW, he should remain in this role mostly due to his importance and effectiveness within that given role itself.

BTW, I am a huge fan of Pacino yet I wonder why is he being labeled after him? Just curious.

Disagree there arq.I would classify him as a DM.Its nothing to do with his physique.
Based on his role in the team and positioning he is a DM.
He stays in front of the back 4,drops into defense when one of the CB's go up,sometimes forms a back 3 when the fullbacks bomb forward,is always there to break up attacks through his perfect positioning.
Also he rarely if ever gets in front of the ball.
Infact the last 2 games I was surprised to see him play relatively high up the pitch and participate in the final third.He doesnt do that.

So I would classify him as a DM.Hence the thread.

Nice to hear you rate Busquets last season so highly.I consider him the best last season.And to think he wasnt even nominated for the Ballon D'Or.
Also who according to you was the best last season?

You think he can replace Xavi?

He's so immobile though...I can't see that at all

For my money I'd leave him where he is

bhends wrote:You think he can replace Xavi?

He's so immobile though...I can't see that at all

For my money I'd leave him where he is

Xavi is not supremely fast.
Cruyff once said that what made him so good was that he thought much faster than anyone else on the pitch.Same is the case with Xavi.Same with Busquets.
Its Xavi's subtle movements that make him so elusive.He doesnt do that by bolting across the pitch.He does that by moving smartly and moving before anyone else does.
When I see Busquets I see the same.

Hes not fast but hes so ridiculously agile, im not sure anyone turns or changes direction with the ball better

I don't think you can say the same about Busquets

bhends wrote:Hes not fast but hes so ridiculously agile, im not sure anyone turns or changes direction with the ball better

I don't think you can say the same about Busquets

He wont be Xavi as I dont think we will see another Xavi.
But he is the closest to him imo.
Xavi uses turns and change of direction to get out of trouble.
Busquets is not as agile but he has plenty of tricks up his sleeve and he uses them to get out of trouble

alexjanosik wrote:

The Franchise wrote:I prefer Thiago to"replace" Xavi. I was suspect at first because he is a risk taker and dare devil, but his pass completion rate is so high and add to the fact once he gets a little older and wiser he will pick his moments even better.

Busquets is "too good" to be limited to short easy passes and never really making a mark in the final third, however he has the perfect mindset for it. I can say from personal experience, being a DM, its very hard not to try and do things you are very capable off just so you can play an easier pass and get things moving quicker. He has the perfect mentality for it. He can do other stuff, but he chooses not to.

Why I wouldnt want him to play further forward? He doesnt have the quickness and tightness of turn to get out of tight situations like Xavi or even Thiago.

Thats not to say he is completely devoid of that ability, I remember a game against Villarreal in which he did some amazing things and totally ripped Senna.

Its not a knock on him, its just Thiago is better at those sorts of things.

The little I have seen of Sergi Roberto, he seems to be a little bit more of a runner and mover. I dont know if he will ever be a single holding player, but at this point im guessing.

I think in many other teams, Busi would play further forward. But for us and what we have, I prefer not.

dani
The question was not whether Barca fans prefer him to play DM?It was whether Busquets is too good to be playing DM?
Some might have misunderstood the question.

Also why do you say that he doesnt have the quickness or tightness of turn to get out of turn situations.
I think he is brilliant in tight situations.Has ridiculous close control and can only be stripped of the ball by fouling.He earns quite a lot of fouls this way.

My mistake, I did read that at first but I went off course while talking about the point.

Anyway, your question is hard to answer.

Is he too good to play DM? For who? It all depends on his teammates.

I dont think I said he doesnt have quickness and tightness of turn, I just feel there would be better options to play further forward because some are better at this.

To answer your question, it depends on his teammates.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

Giggity5313 wrote:Alfred, Thiago plays differently then xavi, IMO he is much more direct, more like inesta. Busquets has pin point passing and supreme intelligence on the field, but he is very, very slow. He is also not strong despite being quite tall.

I haven't posted in this thread?

And I really don't see the resemblance with Al Pacino either

Sorry :cyclops: Mistaken you for someone else. weed does that to you

I know that you've stated this, but I think it needs to be given more importance. Its not only that Xavi is better than any replacement, but his role cannot even be replaced. He's unique. The midfield without Xavi will be a different organism in my eyes. I don't think it needs to be organised with a 'Xavi-like' player. Just find 3 players who work well together and get the job done.' I think it is only natural that once Xavi leaves, Busquets will become more important, but I don't know that this means he has to be moved out of his position.

Our options for the future are Iniesta (for a while), Thiago, Busquets, Cesc, Sergi Roberto and maybe Romeu. The thing is it depends on whether Pep is still the coach and on various players' progression.

Roberto is also not a DM at all... so if your hope was him to play there and Busi pushed up, then it won't happen. He's a box-to-box mid, offers a different tactical option to our other midfielders, but isn't a DM.

On whether he is just too good for the role or not... I think he's perfect for the role and it brings the best out of him. I don't really think he's got the cutting edge to be better playing higher up. Clearly he can play CM though.

Short answer, no... just because I don't think there's such thing as being 'too good' for that position. Its his best position in my opinion.

The Franchise wrote:

alexjanosik wrote:

The Franchise wrote:I prefer Thiago to"replace" Xavi. I was suspect at first because he is a risk taker and dare devil, but his pass completion rate is so high and add to the fact once he gets a little older and wiser he will pick his moments even better.

Busquets is "too good" to be limited to short easy passes and never really making a mark in the final third, however he has the perfect mindset for it. I can say from personal experience, being a DM, its very hard not to try and do things you are very capable off just so you can play an easier pass and get things moving quicker. He has the perfect mentality for it. He can do other stuff, but he chooses not to.

Why I wouldnt want him to play further forward? He doesnt have the quickness and tightness of turn to get out of tight situations like Xavi or even Thiago.

Thats not to say he is completely devoid of that ability, I remember a game against Villarreal in which he did some amazing things and totally ripped Senna.

Its not a knock on him, its just Thiago is better at those sorts of things.

The little I have seen of Sergi Roberto, he seems to be a little bit more of a runner and mover. I dont know if he will ever be a single holding player, but at this point im guessing.

I think in many other teams, Busi would play further forward. But for us and what we have, I prefer not.

dani
The question was not whether Barca fans prefer him to play DM?It was whether Busquets is too good to be playing DM?
Some might have misunderstood the question.

Also why do you say that he doesnt have the quickness or tightness of turn to get out of turn situations.
I think he is brilliant in tight situations.Has ridiculous close control and can only be stripped of the ball by fouling.He earns quite a lot of fouls this way.

My mistake, I did read that at first but I went off course while talking about the point.

Anyway, your question is hard to answer.

Is he too good to play DM? For who? It all depends on his teammates.

I dont think I said he doesnt have quickness and tightness of turn, I just feel there would be better options to play further forward because some are better at this.

To answer your question, it depends on his teammates.

Let me rephrase the question dani.
How many DM have you seen with his skill level and technique?
Frankly I havent seen any and its not even close.
Another question.
How many CM's can you name right now who have more skill and ability(or comparable) than Busquets?
I can name Xavi,Iniesta,Thiago,Pirlo,Modric,Banega.Might have missed a couple more but thats about it.
So to my mind its not dependent on his teammates at all.When you have the likes of Anderson,Khedira,Arteta,Cleverly,Stankovic,Seedorf(the latter 2 in the twilight of their careers but still),Lampard,Ramires,Carrick etc playing CM big clubs I cant help but think that Busquets too should play higher up.As he is better than all of them.I dont see how teammates come into it.
Dont you think he can be a better CM for United or Chelsea or Milan or Inter than the ones they have right now irrespective of teammates?

Also I dont agree necessarily that his agility should be a problem?
Its an extreme case but how agile is Riquelme?
Similarly Pirlo.These players arent particularly agile but they do well in advanced positions.Pilro played a bit deep at Milan but still higher than Busquets and at Juve he is playing fairly high up.Agility doesnt seem to be a problem.

Am a bit surprised by the responses.Expected a few more to agree with me.
Maybe I am just overrating his abilities.

alexjanosik wrote:

The Franchise wrote:

alexjanosik wrote:

The Franchise wrote:I prefer Thiago to"replace" Xavi. I was suspect at first because he is a risk taker and dare devil, but his pass completion rate is so high and add to the fact once he gets a little older and wiser he will pick his moments even better.

Busquets is "too good" to be limited to short easy passes and never really making a mark in the final third, however he has the perfect mindset for it. I can say from personal experience, being a DM, its very hard not to try and do things you are very capable off just so you can play an easier pass and get things moving quicker. He has the perfect mentality for it. He can do other stuff, but he chooses not to.

Why I wouldnt want him to play further forward? He doesnt have the quickness and tightness of turn to get out of tight situations like Xavi or even Thiago.

Thats not to say he is completely devoid of that ability, I remember a game against Villarreal in which he did some amazing things and totally ripped Senna.

Its not a knock on him, its just Thiago is better at those sorts of things.

The little I have seen of Sergi Roberto, he seems to be a little bit more of a runner and mover. I dont know if he will ever be a single holding player, but at this point im guessing.

I think in many other teams, Busi would play further forward. But for us and what we have, I prefer not.

dani
The question was not whether Barca fans prefer him to play DM?It was whether Busquets is too good to be playing DM?
Some might have misunderstood the question.

Also why do you say that he doesnt have the quickness or tightness of turn to get out of turn situations.
I think he is brilliant in tight situations.Has ridiculous close control and can only be stripped of the ball by fouling.He earns quite a lot of fouls this way.

My mistake, I did read that at first but I went off course while talking about the point.

Anyway, your question is hard to answer.

Is he too good to play DM? For who? It all depends on his teammates.

I dont think I said he doesnt have quickness and tightness of turn, I just feel there would be better options to play further forward because some are better at this.

To answer your question, it depends on his teammates.

Let me rephrase the question dani.
How many DM have you seen with his skill level and technique?
Frankly I havent seen any and its not even close.
Another question.
How many CM's can you name right now who have more skill and ability(or comparable) than Busquets?
I can name Xavi,Iniesta,Thiago,Pirlo,Modric,Banega.Might have missed a couple more but thats about it.
So to my mind its not dependent on his teammates at all.When you have the likes of Anderson,Khedira,Arteta,Cleverly,Stankovic,Seedorf(the latter 2 in the twilight of their careers but still),Lampard,Ramires,Carrick etc playing CM big clubs I cant help but think that Busquets too should play higher up.As he is better than all of them.I dont see how teammates come into it.
Dont you think he can be a better CM for United or Chelsea or Milan or Inter than the ones they have right now irrespective of teammates?

Also I dont agree necessarily that his agility should be a problem?
Its an extreme case but how agile is Riquelme?
Similarly Pirlo.These players arent particularly agile but they do well in advanced positions.Pilro played a bit deep at Milan but still higher than Busquets and at Juve he is playing fairly high up.Agility doesnt seem to be a problem.

Am a bit surprised by the responses.Expected a few more to agree with me.
Maybe I am just overrating his abilities.

How many DM´s with his ability on the ball? Probably none.

Sure he has more ability on the ball and the second reel of names you said, so yes for those teams he could do it. But I consider none of those players good enough to be starting centermids for elite teams.

So, I do still feel it depends on his teammates.

Let me go further.

If I had him in my squad, had a runner and hard worker like say Essien or Ramieres in my squad. I would pair them together, Busquets doing construction work deep, the hard runner closing down and chasing and a number 10 type player in front of both of them. Liken the position to Xabi Alonso´s at Madrid.

But I wouldnt play another player who plays the holding role and I would insist on playing a number 10 type player.

So, I wouldnt have say Makelele in his prime with Busquets playing further forward with say Iniesta. I dont think its his Busquets) best position and while he could probably play it I wouldnt consider it ideal.

Agility a problem? Well I think Pirlo´s best work has come deep, where he hasnt had to navigate heavy traffic. Busquets I think would be the same. Both could play further forward, but I dont think it is his best work.

Busi´s moves are great, his assortments of drag backs and feints I have stolen for himself. However, those moves are all stand still moves where he uses his brain and fool the opponent. He would use the opponent running at him to close him down and that momentum against that opponent. For example here.




Both those moves are what I love about him and what I most admire, those are just excellent moves that hardly any player can pull off like him.

However, these are different to moves playing further forward where you have to initiate the action more.

Like some of Xavi´s moves, they are different, he can "attack" the defence more. He can initate more, whereas Busquets requires your hard work and closing down to pinish you. Xavi does this too, but he can also force something.



Its hard to explain and be clear and of course, if the players you named can play centermid then why on earth couldnt Busquets. But as I said above, I still feel its dependant on his teammates and how they play.