Jupp Heynckes vs Louis van Gaal

Round1

Im glad van Gaal is gone now, we all agree that he was an idiot and dont care for defense

He wanted to proof against inter that an all attack team wins against an all defensive team

But with Zero defense you win nothing...

This has to be improve next year and im quiet sure not only with new defensive players but also with training and tactics

Jupp Heynckes will manage this, he has the expirience for this...

I am pretty sure Jupp has a better record when he took over Klinsmann mess

Well, I have a good feeling about Jupp Heynckes at the Bayern helm. He was good for them in his previous stints, too.

The good thing about this is his good with defence and developing youngsters, My dream is to see him bring the best out of Breno, Contento, Badstuber, Kroos, Alaba, Muller, Jullich, Usami and Peterson.

Sure, although we already have tons of youngsters in the starting 11. He can use them to rotate, that's for sure, and extra bench.

But first things are first... fix the defense!

What sort of defenders do you think he'll look at, I just hope he doesn't rate Van Buyten Highly like Van Gaal did...

Idrisozet wrote:What sort of defenders do you think he'll look at, I just hope he doesn't rate Van Buyten Highly like Van Gaal did...

If you look at Neverkusen with Samy Hyppiä, he might want to have some expirience in the centrebackline in think
But this doesnt look like to be Jerome Boateng

And i hope he is not trusting vanBuyten
Therefore it can be that we will get our two new cb`s at least, boateng wont be enough to fix this issue

Bring in Per Mertesacker! I'll feel confident with him playing with Boateng/someone else

Danm now I am scared, I hope he has absolutely no trust in Van Buyten.

I hope he consider Breno and Badstuber as prospect but not yet good enough to win cpl

Hell yeah on Mertesacker. Experienced and is a wall. Probably can get him for cheap, too. With him and Boateng coming in I'd be greatly satisfied.

Idrisozet wrote:Danm now I am scared, I hope he has absolutely no trust in Van Buyten.

I hope he consider Breno and Badstuber as prospect but not yet good enough to win cpl

But its kind of weird...

I would sort in Boateng in the same group of unexpirenced players not yet good enough

i dont know what he has in his mind

Neo wrote:

Idrisozet wrote:Danm now I am scared, I hope he has absolutely no trust in Van Buyten.

I hope he consider Breno and Badstuber as prospect but not yet good enough to win cpl

But its kind of weird...

I would sort in Boateng in the same group of unexpirenced players not yet good enough

i dont know what he has in his mind

Boeteng might be useful because of his pace, otherwise his nothing different from Badstuber and Breno in terms of potential and experience. I would say we sign Boeteng and another experience defender.

Mertelsacker, Freidrish, or even Lucio

Use this tread to highlight the tactical changes and the playing style implemented under Luis Van Gaal and Jupp Heynckes

So far, I noticed more stability in defence thanks to Rafinha and Boateng but at the same time severe lack of creativity in final third. It seems like there is no definiate plan on how to procede unless Robbery beat their man to create a huge distortion in opponent's defense. Gomez is literally left with little service and has to give 150% each time to get a goal scoring chance because no space for him is created.
The counterattacks and buildups are slow as well, it allows the opponent to regroup
To create more space for attackers, the fullbacks need to overlap and make runs until the byline and not stop halfway to pass side/backwards. This way, rivals won't be able to double Robbery easily. Also, Gomez is too isolated from midfield, it looks like this:

------------Neuer-------------

Rafinha--Boat.--Bads..Lahm
------piggy--Gustavo--------
Robben----Muller-----Ribery

-----------Gomez...............

Either piggy has to play higher or one of Robbery more advanced because otherwise, Gomez is easily closed down.

Discuss!

Schweini can't afford to stick forwards. I think what we're seeing is Heynckes defense first approach, which my god we needed. The attack will open up with time and with Robbery fit, but we're mostly seeing the more rigid approach Heynckes wants. Ultimately Bayern have always played this way, grinding down results and with solid defenses, so I'm happy.

While ultra attacking football is very attractive, it generates too much frustration... I don't mind at all the balance. It's also only preseason.

Lahm and Rafinha have really opened up space on the flanks, due to Robbery's abscence and because Mueller and Kroos are central players, you're not going to get that sweet wing play, naturally.

So pretty much just give it time, and get used to a much more solid Bayern

Sushi Master wrote:Schweini can't afford to stick forwards. I think what we're seeing is Heynckes defense first approach, which my god we needed. The attack will open up with time and with Robbery fit, but we're mostly seeing the more rigid approach Heynckes wants. Ultimately Bayern have always played this way, grinding down results and with solid defenses, so I'm happy.

While ultra attacking football is very attractive, it generates too much frustration... I don't mind at all the balance. It's also only preseason.

Lahm and Rafinha have really opened up space on the flanks, due to Robbery's abscence and because Mueller and Kroos are central players, you're not going to get that sweet wing play, naturally.

So pretty much just give it time, and get used to a much more solid Bayern

Let's see, maybe you're right I liked Rafinha a lot, he is the real deal and will make the difference in many matches, me thinky

Good to know that someone else has also noticed this, Gomez is way too isolated and there is no one to lunch on rebounds whenever he misses.

Whenever Ribery and Robben are fit Bayern Attack is very Fatal is just a matter of time before we score, but whenever they are injured we find it very hard to score, this has happened for some time now.

I think we should come up with another tactics whenever Robbery are injured, like playing two strikers up front and an Attacking Midfielder something like this.

-------------------------Neuer----------------------
Rafinha-------Breno---------Boeteng-----Lahm
-------------------------Tymo------------------------
-------------------Kroos-----Schweini-------------
-------------------------Muller-----------------------
--------------------Olic--------Gomez--------------

The plan should be similar to the one Spain used in Last years world cup but just a little bit different, Since both Rafinha & Lahm are very Good with crosses, Unlike Capdevilla Who doesn't attack dat often while Sergio Ramos was almost operating as a winger but Capdevilla & Bosquet usually stayed behind.

Whenever one of the side back overlap(Lahm or Rafinha) the other should stay behind alongside Tymo and Both Olic & Gomez should run deep & contest for crosses, Muller can join them or Lurk Outside Area for Rebounds.

Is so frustrating seeing only Gomez struggling with about 4 defenders to head the ball and nearly almost all crosses from side backs are wasted.

Also Contento played as a right back, I liked that cos he was about the only player alongside Van Buyten & Maybe Breno who can only play one position. I Think Jupp Heynckes should continue training our youngsters to play in more than one Position, Like his doing to Alaba, Muller, Kroos, Contento, Usami. Badstuber & Breno Might just be Able to play as DM

Idrisozet wrote:Good to know that someone has also noticed this, Gomez is way too isolated and there is no one to lunch on rebounds whenever Gomez misses.

Whenever Ribery and Robben are fit Bayern Attack is very Fatal is just a mater of time before score, but whenever they are injured we find it very had to score, this has happened for some time now.

I think we should come up with another tactics whenever Robbery are injured, like playing two strikers up front and an Attacking Midfielder something like this.

-------------------------Neuer----------------------
Rafinha-------Breno---------Boeteng-----Lahm
-------------------------Tymo------------------------
-------------------Kroos-----Schweini-------------
-------------------------Muller-----------------------
--------------------Olic--------Gomez--------------

The plan should be similar to the one Spain used in Last years world cup but just a little bit different, Since both Rafinha & Lahm are very Good with crosses, Unlike Capdevilla Who doesn't attack dat often while Sergio Ramos was almost operating as a winger but Capdevilla & Bosquet usually stayed behind.

Whenever one of the side back overlap(Lahm or Rafinha) the other should stay behind alongside Tymo and Both Olic & Gomez should run deep & contest for the cross, Muller can join them or Lurk Outside Area for Rebounds.

Is so frustrating seeing only Gomez struggling with about 4 defenders to head the ball.

Very good idea, you just need to put Kroos on the left ( shooting from range) and piggy on the right. Also, the players in midfield can cover a lot of ground, no need to play them too close to each other. Something like this:
-------------------------Neuer----------------------

---------------Breno---------Boeteng--------------

Rafinha---------------Tymo----------------Lahm---

-------------Piggy------------------Kroos-------------

-------------------------Muller-----------------------

--------------------Olic--------Gomez--------------

By the way, Gomez has developed into a monster because he has to do everything against 4 defenders

babun1024 wrote:

Idrisozet wrote:Good to know that someone has also noticed this, Gomez is way too isolated and there is no one to lunch on rebounds whenever Gomez misses.

Whenever Ribery and Robben are fit Bayern Attack is very Fatal is just a mater of time before score, but whenever they are injured we find it very had to score, this has happened for some time now.

I think we should come up with another tactics whenever Robbery are injured, like playing two strikers up front and an Attacking Midfielder something like this.

-------------------------Neuer----------------------
Rafinha-------Breno---------Boeteng-----Lahm
-------------------------Tymo------------------------
-------------------Kroos-----Schweini-------------
-------------------------Muller-----------------------
--------------------Olic--------Gomez--------------

The plan should be similar to the one Spain used in Last years world cup but just a little bit different, Since both Rafinha & Lahm are very Good with crosses, Unlike Capdevilla Who doesn't attack dat often while Sergio Ramos was almost operating as a winger but Capdevilla & Bosquet usually stayed behind.

Whenever one of the side back overlap(Lahm or Rafinha) the other should stay behind alongside Tymo and Both Olic & Gomez should run deep & contest for the cross, Muller can join them or Lurk Outside Area for Rebounds.

Is so frustrating seeing only Gomez struggling with about 4 defenders to head the ball.

Very good idea, you just need to put Kroos on the left ( shooting from range) and piggy on the right. Also, the players in midfield can cover a lot of ground, no need to play them too close to each other. Something like this:
-------------------------Neuer----------------------

---------------Breno---------Boeteng--------------

Rafinha---------------Tymo----------------Lahm---

-------------Piggy------------------Kroos-------------

-------------------------Muller-----------------------

--------------------Olic--------Gomez--------------

By the way, Gomez has developed into a monster because he has to do everything against 4 defenders

Perfect.

Gomez just need to work on his ball control, sometimes he pushes the ball way too forward and he should try & work on his finishing As well. Otherwise Gomez is a Monster, his got pace, strong. His more like a mix of Luca Toni & Olic, I just wish he can add a little bit of Makaay to that..

Idrisozet wrote:

babun1024 wrote:

Idrisozet wrote:Good to know that someone has also noticed this, Gomez is way too isolated and there is no one to lunch on rebounds whenever Gomez misses.

Whenever Ribery and Robben are fit Bayern Attack is very Fatal is just a mater of time before score, but whenever they are injured we find it very had to score, this has happened for some time now.

I think we should come up with another tactics whenever Robbery are injured, like playing two strikers up front and an Attacking Midfielder something like this.

-------------------------Neuer----------------------
Rafinha-------Breno---------Boeteng-----Lahm
-------------------------Tymo------------------------
-------------------Kroos-----Schweini-------------
-------------------------Muller-----------------------
--------------------Olic--------Gomez--------------

The plan should be similar to the one Spain used in Last years world cup but just a little bit different, Since both Rafinha & Lahm are very Good with crosses, Unlike Capdevilla Who doesn't attack dat often while Sergio Ramos was almost operating as a winger but Capdevilla & Bosquet usually stayed behind.

Whenever one of the side back overlap(Lahm or Rafinha) the other should stay behind alongside Tymo and Both Olic & Gomez should run deep & contest for the cross, Muller can join them or Lurk Outside Area for Rebounds.

Is so frustrating seeing only Gomez struggling with about 4 defenders to head the ball.

Very good idea, you just need to put Kroos on the left ( shooting from range) and piggy on the right. Also, the players in midfield can cover a lot of ground, no need to play them too close to each other. Something like this:
-------------------------Neuer----------------------

---------------Breno---------Boeteng--------------

Rafinha---------------Tymo----------------Lahm---

-------------Piggy------------------Kroos-------------

-------------------------Muller-----------------------

--------------------Olic--------Gomez--------------

By the way, Gomez has developed into a monster because he has to do everything against 4 defenders

Perfect.

Gomez just need to work on his ball control, sometimes he pushes the ball way too forward and he should try & work on his finishing As well. Otherwise Gomez is a Monster, his got pace, strong. His more like a mix of Luca Toni & Olic, I just wish he can add a little bit of Makaay to that..

Last year, he had the best shot/goal ratio in entire Europe, even better than Messi or CR7
And shame on the people who said, Dzeko>>> Godmez by a mile Except for his first year, Godmez always outperformed Dzeko in Bundesliga

I like that diamond formation you guys are proposing, but I don't see Heynckes applying it much due to lack of width. Lahm and Rafinha would have to be very carefull going up else our whole flanks are left open.

I do remember how good the Golic combination worked out, though... Would be good when we're trying to grind out results, and even Gustavo can fit in there.

Sushi Master wrote:I like that diamond formation you guys are proposing, but I don't see Heynckes applying it much due to lack of width. Lahm and Rafinha would have to be very carefull going up else our whole flanks are left open.

I do remember how good the Golic combination worked out, though... Would be good when we're trying to grind out results, and even Gustavo can fit in there.

They beauty of that diamond is that a midfielder covers for the fullback and only one fullback surges forward at a time but when he does it, it's with overlap to the byline I see no problems with it, specially with ribery, he likes to interact with fullbacks

Yeah, but Ribery's gonna have to up his workrate to fit into that. It's sexy theorically but let's see if Heynckes leaves the trusty 4-2-3-1 we've been using for so long.

I think we should stick to 4-2-3-1 whenever Robbery are fit, but we should play the diamond position to create more chances of scoring when they are both injured...

Idrisozet wrote:I think we should stick to 4-2-3-1 whenever Robbery are fit, but we should play the diamond position to create more chances of scoring when they are both injured...

Yeah, when they're both injured, width becomes a problem. Olic and Muller are capable of creating width from diamond formation with the help of the coresponding fullback

The diamond formation is very rare nowadays, though. The anchorman also needs to be a very complete player (Essien, Pirlo in his prime, Ballack) in the times I've seen it applied. On paper it looks good, but I'm not sure about it's practical use.