Spain NT discussion

Mate, you might have missed this, but Alba has only 15 La Liga caps for Barca this season. He was basically out with injuries the entire season and on top of that had his wisdom teeth removed shortly before the World Cup. No one will disagree that Azpi had a better season. He actually played consistently.

Statements like "first and foremost priority is to defend" from you disappoint me tbh. That's like saying "why ballplaying centerbacks - just put John Terry in Barca's high line". Why "a keeper who is good with his feet - put Cech in Barca's goal". Disregarding the style of play completely. Defensive fullbacks make no sense for a team that camps in the opposition half and averages 70+ % possession. Azpi gets nosebleeding when he passes the halfway line. You actually see it in his face that he's uncomfortable and doesn't know what to do when he gets as many touches on the ball as a midfielder. Alba today had 108 (!) touches. Juanfran had 89. "Defense first and foremost" doesn't compute. Spain's philosophy is defending by attacking.

Yes, there are other issues. Azpi is one of them though and I take any GL bet that he won't be starting in Euro 2016.

I'm speaking of comparing fullbacks in fullbacks context not in regards to the system. If you're speaking of the system yes then by all means Alba is far more comfortable in it considering Azpi hasn't played in that role for over 2-3 years and did so on the left hand side: 8 caps (less than half of them starts) is not enough for him to accustom himself in a role to which has a strong learning curve. He started out brightly in it yet truth be told literally no one in this World Cup bar Xabi Alonso or Busquets performed their roles properly as the team was all over the place.

Alba has become what Schmelzer is for Deutschland. Only attacking LB option since the rest bar Moreno aren't of that build and it's costing more than just the left flank. Yet compared to Alba's consistent heart attacks in friendlies and tournaments, 2 average appearances won't outnumber the amount of failure Alba has accrued as I'm not alone in wanting this clown to see the bench.

Arquitescu wrote:I'd love to see headless Alba slotted in a system similar to Mourinho's which will actually require discipline, reading and anticipation compared to Barça's pseudo-wingback system. Oh wait he already did 2 seasons of absolute disaster before his final season in Valencia.

I think that he would do very well in such a system. This system has time and time again shown that it can hinder lapse of concentration from individual players. Heck, even Ramos has looks discipline when Real Madrid put 10 men behind the ball. I mean, in this system if a player loses his concentration, there will be 9 other players to fix his mistake. The same can, and probably will, happen if Alba plays in a system like that..

And you might not be the only one who wants to see Alba on the bench, but there are even more who wants to see Azpilicueta there, because atleast Alba has proven himself for Spain..

Xavi retires from International football.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BuRawjyIEAEb2ly.png

True servant of Spain's golden generation.
Not a co-incidence that the end of Spain's era of dominance has come during his demise.

Xavi.

What a player.

Call ups for next week's international games, surprised Montoya and Deulofeu didn't make it

well, sadly for spain, without Jese and Deulofeu they have no talent out wide.

The Cesc era finally begins.

Gil wrote:The Cesc era finally begins.

No more old timers keeping him from shining


Imo Cesc is gonna GOAT at the Euros

Albiol...

Was hoping Monreal makes it after the start he has had.

Isco.

Ayoze made the U21s

Didn't expect that to happen so quickly.

VDB is doing all the right things after the miserable WC. Next step should be getting rid of Iker.

And Spain still have Javi Martinez, Thaigo, Muniain, Moreno, Jese, Deulofeu, Munir, Herrara, Inigo Martinez, Illarra, Mata, Bernat, Suso, Oliver Torres, Denis Suarez, Morata, Llorente, Negredo, Navas this is a whole new XI of its own.

As well as the coaches, Pep, Lucho, Rafa, Martinez, Valverde, Emery

Many of these already played togrther for the u21 team anyways

Without Xavi, Iniesta and Alonso, possession has gone way down.  58% possession... most of which happened in the 2nd half after both France and Spain subbed out starters around the 65 min mark.  I would wager it was close to 50/50 before that.

The most damning thing is the shots.  Spain managed only 7 shots for the whole game with 0 on target.  

To me, Spain is toothless.  Some nice individual players...  but nowhere near the quality of a fit Xavi, Iniesta and Villa.  Biggest thing is that the philosophy is failing because the golden age of Barca is over (meaning, Spanish players coming up form La Masia).  You can't implement a system based on a club who is supposed to be the feeder of the NT...  when that club no longer feeds the NT.  Only Busquets was a starter from Barca last night. You can say Cesc too... but Cesc has evolved his game beyond the Barca philosophy, which is why he had such a hard time when he returned.

Unless VDB accepts that he needs to change his tactics significantly, Spain goes nowhere imo.

http://www.espnfc.com/gamecast/statistics/id/404041/statistics.html

I dont think it matters what tactics they play, they need to restructure the team and bring in younger/different players.

It will obviously take time to figure out which are the ones you really wish to base the side on and around.

Perhaps VDB isnt the man to do it either.

Unless VDB accepts that he needs to change his tactics significantly, Spain goes nowhere imo.

Perhaps VDB isnt the man to do it either.

I think I have mentioned it in the WC/Spain thread before, don't you think it's time Spain tries someone other than VDB???

I don't think there;s anything wrong with a Itturaspe/Koke-Busquets-Cesc midfield and Iniesta/Pedro/Isco-Silva-Costa up front.  That's plenty of talent and they fit in terms of profiles.  The issue is that there's no plan on how you're going to attack...  normally, you focus on your best attacking player and build around his game.  That is surely Costa right now, no?  Assuming it's Costa, then it shouldn't be about doing this intricate short passes near the box.  It should be about spreading the pitch, putting Costa in 1v1 duel situations and getting him the ball then.  Use that as a basis for your attack... and let everything else flow off of it.

No, I dont think its Costa at all. And no you cant play to Costa' strengths because his strengths lie in the type of game nearly all of the rest of players will have difficulty being themselves in.

As ofr those players, we take it one by one

Itturaspe is a good player but no world beater. Your not going to be starting him if you really want to do things.

What is Koke? He isnt a centermid in my eyes. He is a ball presser and retriever if your playing high up the pitch. If your dropping into a low block your looking for him to combine and spring board counter attacks, but not from the centermidfield because he is inevitably too far away from the final third. To me, he is a player you bring from the bench in all honesty.

Cesc is a 10. Regardless of Mourinho talking out his ass, he cant play CM in any serious game.

Pedro as a winger cant dribble anyone and as an inside forward no longer scores consistently. Dont know what he does any more. Living off Guardiola making him great 4 years ago.

Silva is better playing as a 10, but because of his versitility is shunted to a winger position. Narrows up the pitch and because he inevitably is playing with 9 other passers, there is noone making the runs he wants to find. Isnt much of a goal threat himself.

Iniesta is similar but a better player. You play him as a winger and he makes the pitch smaller. If they plan on him replacing Xavi (this applies to Barca too) then your going to start stripping away the best parts of his game because he will take less risks.

Busquets you want to play a pressing system with or he is going to struggle covering space. Also he is one of the most rare players in the world, he can play the lone pivot role defensively while still being excellent on the ball. Hardly any of those around, to me it makes sense to play to this rare ability.

Costa is guy who thrives on running into channels and spaces. Spain have players who dont want to play such a vertical game because it requires them to run more and they are some of the poorest athletes you will find in elite teams.

Isco needs to actually play for Madrid consistently go get a real grasp on how best to use him for Spain. Moving from 10, to RW, to CM and all over the place is confusing everyone and probably himself. Think he is a player worth keeping if he actually plays though, talented boy.

Dani... we're not talking club perfection here. NT is different. You can't build perfect teams on an NT level. Rarely happens. In fact, Germany is playing without a good CF and Howedes playing RB.

With NT, it's relative talent. Spain's relative talent compared to the other top NTs is on par. It's not worse. Just like France after 2006 through WC2010... talent was never the issue.

It comes down to figuring out what identity works for you and building around that. On this Spain team, you don't have a dominant midfield. Those days are over just like they are with Barca. So you go back to the basis of an attack since the dawn of time: You build your attack around your best goalscorer since he's the one who's going to need to score the goals. In Spain's case, it's Costa. It doesn't mean you pigeon-hole yourself to that... but it's the primary. Just like Mueller is the primary for Germany.

If you don't do that AND you don't have dominant midfield/midfielder... then you have no identity whatsover on the attack.

Im not sure what your saying.

All I just talked about is what problems you encounter when you play those players, especially together.

It doesnt matter where you play football, if both of your "wingers" narrow the pitch, there is less space to keep the ball in.

If you dont have an organised press, or sit in a low block (Spain do neither) then the slower runners are going to struggle covering space.

And no, I totally disagree with that philosophy of building around your best goalscorer. Every situation is different.

How can Spain build around Costa with what they have? Play as Atletico do? With which players?

Dominant midfield? If Thiago was fit, him, Iniesta and Busquets with an actual defensive system and some mobile, multifaceted forwards would do just fine.

Unfortunately Thiago is very injured, and those forwards are probably 2-4 years away.

In the meantime, the answer isnt playing to Diego Costa's limited strengths. To me, its figuring out who are the players you need to build the team around.

Spain or any team style will only go as far as the players that are in it, we all know this, but you need to figure out who those players are first. With Spain, it isnt quite so obvious right now and it wont be because NT's obviously cant train for weeks and months on end.

Another issue is, I dont think VDB is the man for all this restructuring. He's lost it to be totally frank.

Spain should absolutely adopt a more direct style... that's exactly what i'm saying. You can't buy and sell players on NT to fit a philosophy. You need to fit your philosophy to the players that you have. The better attacking players and midfielders for Spain are better suited for a direct style.