Re: Spain's two horse race

by Zealous Tue 2 Aug 2011 - 12:03

Villarreal, Sevilla, Valencia or Atletico don't have Liverpool's or Arsenal's mega millionaire owners though......

My point is that Barcelona and Madrid have had a tougher time against Villarreal, Sevilla, Valencia, Bilbao, Ossasuna than Arsenal, Spurs United Etc.

by BeautifulGame Tue 2 Aug 2011 - 12:05

izzy26 wrote:
BeautifulGame wrote:And no one disagreed Barca are the best team in the world and probably one of the best in history? Did we?

But that doesnt equate to the strength of other la liga teams are equal to the PL teams.Apart from Madrid and Barca probably only Valencia has real quality to be compared with the top 6 of PL.To compare the likes of Sevilla and Atletico and say they are as good as Liverpool and Arsenal is just ridiculous.

Nah, don't see why Pool, City and Spurs should be instantly better than Villarreal at this moment.

Because teams finishing 4th in PL are always far superior to teams finishing 4th in La liga for years.So just because Villareal finished 4th in La liga means they are as good as City or Liverpool.

by Zealous Tue 2 Aug 2011 - 12:05

che wrote:
Iceman wrote:If any EPL fan dares to say that the EPL is better, then he is a premface who knows nothing about football.

no...

if any epl fan dares to say that the epl is better WITHOUT PROVIDING ANY ARGUMENT, LET ALONE ANY PROOF, then he is a premface who knows nothing about football

that's pretty much a factual statement...

Pretty much this.

by Iceman Tue 2 Aug 2011 - 12:06

The arguments have been provided many many times before. I'm finding it quite redundant to keep on repeating them every single time such a debate arises. Look at what this thread turned into: "We beat you, so we're better". "Oh, but they also beat you, but we beat them, so whats your point?". "Err, we still beat you".

I can say "Oh, look at Fulham's Europa League campaign last season...and they finished 9th in the EPL that season too", but what on earth does that add?
I still haven't seen any arguments that prove that the EPL would still be a two horse race if Barca and Madrid were in it, which was the actual statement I was replying to, but I am expected to present my argument even though we've been through this many times.

Like I said, tedious stuff and all pointless at the end of the day

by Iceman Tue 2 Aug 2011 - 12:08

Zealous wrote:Villarreal, Sevilla, Valencia or Atletico don't have Liverpool's or Arsenal's mega millionaire owners though......

So?

Zealous wrote:My point is that Barcelona and Madrid have had a tougher time against Villarreal, Sevilla, Valencia, Bilbao, Ossasuna than Arsenal, Spurs United Etc.

Barcelona have had a "tougher time" against Valencia than they had against Madrid. What does that prove? Nothing.

by Zealous Tue 2 Aug 2011 - 12:11

You're the one who said that the EPL is at a higher level. We asked you to prove it.

Something more than "Cuz we just are!" please.

by izzy Tue 2 Aug 2011 - 12:13

Iceman wrote:La Liga fans: "La Liga is better than the EPL, and the quality is better"
EPL fans: "EPL is more competitive and there are better teams than La Liga"
La Liga fans: "PREMFACE!!! "

There is little reasoning that would ever solve this issue. If any EPL fan dares to say that the EPL is better, then he is a premface who knows nothing about football. Dare anyone say that an English player has good potential, or an English team is better than a Spanish one, then he or she must be a premface who knows nothing about football.

Its pointless to argue or debate in such an atmosphere.

The EPL sucks ass, and isn't the best league in the world, let alone one of the top ones. The Engilsh game is ONLY about kicking the ball in the air and running after it. We don't have any tactics, there are no teams that pass the ball on the ground and our superior physicality MUST mean that English teams can't do anything else except hoof the ball up field.

Playing the victim, huh?

'La Liga is a two-horse race so the whole league sucks'.
I suppose I'm still a premface after all of this though...

Playing the victim, huh?

'La Liga is a two-horse race so the whole league sucks'. Sound familiar?

You guys believe that Liga is terrible because only two teams can currently win the league. Does that make sense? If we se that logic, the EPL is biger joke because we have a bunch of 'contenders' (whatever) that can challenge supposedly for the title but up slipping away as usual and the same two teams end up winning it.

But let's use logic, I bet the majority of EPL fans find the survival sunday exciting and shows how even the league is blah blah blah. You also find the race for european places exciting huh? Shows a variety of teams can challenge for a European spot. Same happens in Liga, but Liga gets ridiculed for it while EPL gets praise? Does that make sense?

But hey, let's continue to use this logic:

'In the EPL, we have survival sunday, more title 'contenders' and better competition for european places'.
In Liga, we have survival saturday, 2 title contenders and strong competition for european places'.
Yet, Liga is uncompetitve and a joke of a league.

Doesn't make sense.

by Iceman Tue 2 Aug 2011 - 12:15

Look at the statement I was replying to..

"I honestly think PL would be a two horse race if Real Madrid and Barcelona played in it aswell. They are just too good atm, while they pressure each other to make very few slipups each season."

Still haven't seen ANY argument that proves that, yet here I am being stoned for not proving any arguments either. Haven't even seen anything that shows that La Liga is better than the EPL.

What arguments have you provided, kind sir? "Valencia is better than Arsenal because they took a lead, but eventually lost to United". "Valencia is better than the EPL teams because Barca and RM had a harder time against them, but they still lost anyway".

I'm sorry, but if these are what you call "arguments", then there is no point in continuing.

by izzy Tue 2 Aug 2011 - 12:15

BeautifulGame wrote:Because teams finishing 4th in PL are always far superior to teams finishing 4th in La liga for years.So just because Villareal finished 4th in La liga means they are as good as City or Liverpool.

Waiting for this exact reply.

What's your proof? Or are you spouting rubbish?

by Iceman Tue 2 Aug 2011 - 12:21

izzy26 wrote:

Playing the victim, huh?

'La Liga is a two-horse race so the whole league sucks'. Sound familiar?

You guys believe that Liga is terrible because only two teams can currently win the league. Does that make sense? If we se that logic, the EPL is biger joke because we have a bunch of 'contenders' (whatever) that can challenge supposedly for the title but up slipping away as usual and the same two teams end up winning it.

But let's use logic, I bet the majority of EPL fans find the survival sunday exciting and shows how even the league is blah blah blah. You also find the race for european places exciting huh? Shows a variety of teams can challenge for a European spot. Same happens in Liga, but Liga gets ridiculed for it while EPL gets praise? Does that make sense?

But hey, let's continue to use this logic:

'In the EPL, we have survival sunday, more title 'contenders' and better competition for european places'.
In Liga, we have survival saturday, 2 title contenders and strong competition for european places'.
Yet, Liga is uncompetitve and a joke of a league.

Doesn't make sense.

It makes a whole bunch of sense, but you fail to realize it. Every league is going to be competitive at some level. You're putting 20 teams against each other, so there has to be some sort of competition.
This season (Or last season I suppose we should call it now), there were 3 legitimate title contenders. Arsenal were top of the league at some point, as well as Chelsea and United. Thats more competition than having 2 teams fighting it off.
Last season, there were 6-8 teams with a realistic chance of getting relegated during the last month. It was also the least number of points accumulated throughout the league for over a decade, showing that there is more competition.
Do we see a 25 point gap between second and third place? No we don't, because the level of the teams are closer (i.e. more competitive)

by che Tue 2 Aug 2011 - 12:26

Iceman wrote:

It makes a whole bunch of sense, but you fail to realize it. Every league is going to be competitive at some level. You're putting 20 teams against each other, so there has to be some sort of competition.
This season (Or last season I suppose we should call it now), there were 3 legitimate title contenders. Arsenal were top of the league at some point, as well as Chelsea and United. Thats more competition than having 2 teams fighting it off.
Last season, there were 6-8 teams with a realistic chance of getting relegated during the last month. It was also the least number of points accumulated throughout the league for over a decade, showing that there is more competition.
Do we see a 25 point gap between second and third place? No we don't, because the level of the teams are closer (i.e. more competitive)

jesus christ...

ok, first of all the entire bottom half of la liga table could have been relegated on the last matchday, let's just get that out of the way

secondly, yes, we acknowledge the 25 point gap, and are saying that it's not because primera teams from 3rd below suck (as opposed to what the epl fanboys are saying), it's because barcelona and madrid were far superior to teams both in and outside la liga last season

by Adit Tue 2 Aug 2011 - 12:28

its ridiculous to claim EPL teams are all on another level compared to la liga teams with out any trace of evidence.

Only time Epl midtable teams compete with La liga midtable teams are in eufa cup probably andLa liga clubs have been walking in Uefa cup.

by Iceman Tue 2 Aug 2011 - 12:30

I realize that. Once again, my first post in this thread was basically saying that the difference is not just because Barca and Madrid are "far superior", but because the other teams aren't as good as well. Its 20 freakin points, not 5 or 10.

by Iceman Tue 2 Aug 2011 - 12:31

Its ridiculous to claim that La Liga teams are better than EPL teams with only "Valencia took the lead at Old trafford before losing" as your argument.

by izzy Tue 2 Aug 2011 - 12:32

Iceman wrote:It makes a whole bunch of sense, but you fail to realize it. Every league is going to be competitive at some level. You're putting 20 teams against each other, so there has to be some sort of competition.
This season (Or last season I suppose we should call it now), there were 3 legitimate title contenders. Arsenal were top of the league at some point, as well as Chelsea and United. Thats more competition than having 2 teams fighting it off.
Last season, there were 6-8 teams with a realistic chance of getting relegated during the last month. It was also the least number of points accumulated throughout the league for over a decade, showing that there is more competition.
Do we see a 25 point gap between second and third place? No we don't, because the level of the teams are closer (i.e. more competitive)

Really? Liga info for you:
Last season there were 2 teams that were going to win the league.
There were 7-9 teams that could have got relegated in the final weeks.

That least number stat you threw out was trash. United were not at their best last season, neither were Chelsea and the less said about Arsenal the better. They dropped in quality, the lower league teams did not improve, not one bit.
Competition is not just based on title contenders, it is based on the entire league and if you are going to seriously tell me that Liga basically had the same situations as EPL baring the point gap and the ONE more title 'contender' then that is ridiculous.

by Adit Tue 2 Aug 2011 - 12:33

Iceman wrote:Its ridiculous to claim that La Liga teams are better than EPL teams with only "Valencia took the lead at Old trafford before losing" as your argument.

did i say la liga team are better ?

I was replying against your ridiculous "EPL clubs are whole level ahead of laliga teams " argument.

by che Tue 2 Aug 2011 - 12:37

Iceman wrote:Its ridiculous to claim that La Liga teams are better than EPL teams with only "Valencia took the lead at Old trafford before losing" as your argument.

again, noone is claiming that la liga teams are better than epl teams as a fact

the issue is that epl fanboys such as yourself claim that la liga teams are bad because there's a 25 point gap between the top 2 and the rest, choosing to ignore that last season no epl team put up a challenge against spain's top 2 either when they met

by izzy Tue 2 Aug 2011 - 12:39

Supposedly, because of a smaller point gap between 2nd and 3rd and ONE more supposed title contender, the WHOLE EPL makes Liga look like trash.

by Iceman Tue 2 Aug 2011 - 12:39

The main competition revolves around winning the league. That is the whole essence of the competition: To have one winner. The more teams that are able to win the trophy, the more competitive it gets at the top level. Whats the point of the competition if we aren't going to look out for the winner?

This next season, the EPL has 4 teams that can realistically win the league (5 if you count Liverpool). La Liga still has the 2.

by M99 Tue 2 Aug 2011 - 12:40

So what can we conclude after 10 pages? Both Premier League and La Liga suck.

So Seria A>>>>>>>>>all Spain's two horse race - Page 6 2859867778

by Red Alert Tue 2 Aug 2011 - 12:41

THERE IS NO BEST LEAGUE FFS! There is a favourite league. That's it.

by cyberman Tue 2 Aug 2011 - 12:41

Last time i was on i read 3 different posts in a row claiming City, Chelsea then Arsenal will win the EPL next year, Utd werent even mentioned .
Spain? 2 teams and thats it

FFS the 3rd best team seemingly have a better squad than us according to people on here.

Our squad depths are what makes the EPL better, look at Utd v Barca. Their fans cant comprehend that Nani, Anderson etc arent starters. UTD PLAYED MORE STARTERS THAN US WHA WHA WHA.

No actually, we just have a superior squad

Only people who defend La Liga are the big 2 fans, the fn chairmen of their rivals share the same views as the rest of us

take off your blinkers

by Iceman Tue 2 Aug 2011 - 12:43

che wrote:
Iceman wrote:Its ridiculous to claim that La Liga teams are better than EPL teams with only "Valencia took the lead at Old trafford before losing" as your argument.

again, noone is claiming that la liga teams are better than epl teams as a fact

the issue is that epl fanboys such as yourself claim that la liga teams are bad because there's a 25 point gap between the top 2 and the rest, choosing to ignore that last season no epl team put up a challenge against spain's top 2 either when they met

Yes...Arsenal did not put up a challenge against Barca at all. We didn't beat them 2-1 and we weren't just one Bendtner's touch away from knocking them out. We definitely didn't put up a fight.

All I'm saying is that there are more strong EPL teams than there are La Liga teams. City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, United and Spurs. La Liga have Barca, Real Madrid and Valencia. Villareal are overrated imho, and Sevilla's season wasn't at all impressive last season.

by che Tue 2 Aug 2011 - 12:44

Iceman wrote:

This next season, the EPL has 4 teams that can realistically win the league (5 if you count Liverpool). La Liga still has the 2.

see, that's purely subjective, and that's another fallacy that epl fanboys use as an argument

noone apart from arsenal fans considers arsenal title contenders... being in top 2 for 7 months and then dropping down to third or fourth year after year after year does not make you a title contender

and liverpool, really?

what it boils down to is that over the last few years, manchester united and chelsea were the only teams to put up a title challenge, with one liverpool intrusion in 09

saying "we have more title contenders because arsenal are totally gonna win, for realsies" is not an argument

by izzy Tue 2 Aug 2011 - 12:44

cyberman wrote:Last time i was on i read 3 different posts in a row claiming City, Chelsea then Arsenal will win the EPL next year, Utd werent even mentioned .
Spain? 2 teams and thats it

FFS the 3rd best team seemingly have a better squad than us according to people on here.

Our squad depths are what makes the EPL better, look at Utd v Barca. Their fans cant comprehend that Nani, Anderson etc arent starters. UTD PLAYED MORE STARTERS THAN US WHA WHA WHA.

No actually, we just have a superior squad

Only people who defend La Liga are the big 2 fans, the fn chairmen of their rivals share the same views as the rest of us

take off your blinkers

I actually think United will win the EPL with ease next year.
The other teams have not really improved at all.

So Aguero went to City, so what? Clichy also went there and that cancels out the whole fear factor.

by REWB Tue 2 Aug 2011 - 12:44

cyberman wrote:Last time i was on i read 3 different posts in a row claiming City, Chelsea then Arsenal will win the EPL next year, Utd werent even mentioned .
Spain? 2 teams and thats it

FFS the 3rd best team seemingly have a better squad than us according to people on here.

Our squad depths are what makes the EPL better, look at Utd v Barca. Their fans cant comprehend that Nani, Anderson etc arent starters. UTD PLAYED MORE STARTERS THAN US WHA WHA WHA.

No actually, we just have a superior squad

Only people who defend La Liga are the big 2 fans, the fn chairmen of their rivals share the same views as the rest of us

take off your blinkers

lol thats what im saying

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