How Many Undeserving Players Will Finish Higher than Victor in the Goal.com 50

this thread should be how many players are going to be undeservedly awarded a higher rank than the great ABATE.......

El Pipita wrote:Valdes is just a good goal keeper but Casillas saves are sometimes magical.
like this:

but could b bluderous at times

messixaviesta wrote:

BarcaKizz wrote:Fair enough I understand some of these points. However, for me Valdes was one of our very best players this season. I found him one of my favourite players to watch this season.

1. Messi
2. Alves
3. Iniesta
4. Possibly Valdes...

Well if I were to make early predictions the top three Barcelona players in order will be Messi, Xavi and Iniesta. Then the other near sure shots are D.Alves, Busquets and Pique. Now the three who I am not sure about are Abidal, Villa and Pedro. Valdes may have been more consistent than some of them but they are either considered more key to the team's game or have had more decisive moments in the biggest of matches - in some cases both.

This was my list of favourite players to watch this season, so its subjective. When I say possibly, its because Xavi and Abidal were probably on the same level there (though Xavi is my favourite player, and of course... at his best I take most joy in watching him).

shamr9pato wrote:

El Pipita wrote:Valdes is just a good goal keeper but Casillas saves are sometimes magical.
like this:

but could b bluderous at times

This is one of the main reasons Casillas didn't have as good a season. He made more mistakes. Valdes' only blunder was against Arsenal, and even that wasn't as woeful as some of Casillas' calamities. It was more just a little too casual.

free_cat wrote:

bhends wrote:De Gea made twice as many saves (154) as Valdes (76) and nearly twice as many as Casillas (81)

Yet he made numerous mistakes coming out of goal, his weak point.

Don't get me wrong, I love De Gea, but he is clearly not a finished product and worse than Valdes, and had a worse season too.

Perhaps De Gea did make more mistakes than Valdes, but that also probably has something to do with the fact that he faced 207 shots last year, while Valdes faced only 92 shots

My point isn't that De Gea (or anyone else) is better than Valdes...My point is that you shouldn't be surprised that people aren't over the moon about a keeper that faces less than 100 shots in an entire league campaign

True, but degree of difficulty should be considered.

A large percentage of those 100 shots Valdes saved where 1 v 1/point blank based on the way we play.

BarcaKizz wrote:

shamr9pato wrote:

El Pipita wrote:Valdes is just a good goal keeper but Casillas saves are sometimes magical.
like this:

but could b bluderous at times

This is one of the main reasons Casillas didn't have as good a season. He made more mistakes. Valdes' only blunder was against Arsenal, and even that wasn't as woeful as some of Casillas' calamities. It was more just a little too casual.

haha epic,a 180 degree goal and still they defends valdes,talk about bias.That goal was worser than mistakes gomes done in the entire season,still you defends like it is a normal mistake.How to overate a player?

And we cant even find that van persie "goal" as a mistake by valdes in you tube.

why?? Nobody cares about him and nobody cares about his mistakes as equal as his good perfomances.

The Franchise wrote:True, but degree of difficulty should be considered.

A large percentage of those 100 shots Valdes saved where 1 v 1/point blank based on the way we play.

dani, that's a very good point.

Adit wrote:And we cant even find that van persie "goal" as a mistake by valdes in you tube.

why?? Nobody cares about him and nobody cares about his mistakes as equal as his good perfomances.

or maybe because people care more about the shot + RvP hitting the back of the net than the goalkeeper. I won't forgive Valdes for those two mistakes that almost cost us dearly, but he did save the team on numerous occasions.

The importance of the games matter a lot as well. A goalkeeper making a blunder against a lowly minion team when they are up 7-0 isn't as significant as making a blunder against a top team when you are trailing.

Just some food for thought.

Kevacious wrote:The importance of the games matter a lot as well. A goalkeeper making a blunder against a lowly minion team when they are up 7-0 isn't as significant as making a blunder against a top team when you are trailing.

Just some food for thought.

Well aware of that, but Valdes was still extraordinary this term.



Update: Not sure about Pastore higher. Giggs and Puyol too ( though I feel bad to say it).

Giggs being rated so highly is ridiculous.

BarcaKizz wrote:
Update: Not sure about Pastore higher. Giggs and Puyol too ( though I feel bad to say it).

Pastore did surprise me. I didn't expect him to be that high. However market value is also being taken into account. If a player is a big prospect then he will be rated higher. Consider this for example. Aguero, Soldado and Negredo scored nearly the same number of goals. However I would guess Aguero will be pretty high in the list while the other two won't even make it.

Giggs also I didn't expect but after reading the citation I realized that I didn't remember some details and the overall points make it sound fair.

Puyol again is debatable. As the citation says sometimes it's just about importance of a player. Puyol is kind of irreplaceable at Barcelona. Remember cholla made the comment the defense without him is like a kindergarten without a teacher.

Next three I thought were pretty much spot on - Wilshere(32), Gomez(31) and Neymar(30).

Now comes the big point of discussion - Sergio Busquets(29).

I understand quite a few Barcelona fans will feel that he should have been rated much higher. However for a DM it's a good position. We need to consider a few things. It's very unlikely any DM would be rated higher than him. Also the biggest point that I would make is Yaya Toure did not even make it to Goal.com's countdown for the 2008-09 season which totally shocked me. Does this mean Goal.com is saying Busquets (2010-11) > Yaya (2008-09) ? I know most here will say yes but I really want to know if dani agrees with this since he is one of Yaya's greatest fans as well as a very fair observer of the game.

No, Busquets still isnt better then Yaya was. My opinion, wont say more.

The Franchise wrote:No, Busquets still isnt better then Yaya was. My opinion, wont say more.

I wouldn't dismiss it so quickly. I like the quote that Busquets is a player of an extinct species. He's very unique and its almost unfair to compare him to other players. The midfield of 08-09 was also extremely different to this one. Both midfields are incredible in my opinion. Yaya was more of a beast, sat higher up and gave more drive. Busquets sits deeper, and stays there allowing for the evolution in Barca's game where even more players go forward, often with Busquets as the 2nd or last man. Busquets gains very little recognition for his role, but he does do it superbly, and not even Yaya could do it better. That being said, Busquets isn't capable of what Yaya did either.

Both are great players, Yaya was a favourite of mine, but after seeing Busquets at the Camp Nou I'm really impressed by him. He was probably the biggest surprise for me. I knew he was good, but this guy really is a superb player, incredible ball control and what he does off the ball when the camera isn't watching him is also excellent. A player that should be watched by all youngsters as he's simple, but also simply text book. The way he toys with people trying to get the ball off him is also great to watch live

I don't like to compare them, both great players. What I do know is... I wish Yaya had stayed instead of Keita and Mascherano. This season he'd be very useful with plenty of games at CB, DM, and CM.

The Franchise wrote:No, Busquets still isnt better then Yaya was. My opinion, wont say more.

Thanks. That's all I had asked for - your opinion.

BarcaKizz wrote:
I wouldn't dismiss it so quickly. I like the quote that Busquets is a player of an extinct species. He's very unique and its almost unfair to compare him to other players. The midfield of 08-09 was also extremely different to this one. Both midfields are incredible in my opinion. Yaya was more of a beast, sat higher up and gave more drive. Busquets sits deeper, and stays there allowing for the evolution in Barca's game where even more players go forward, often with Busquets as the 2nd or last man. Busquets gains very little recognition for his role, but he does do it superbly, and not even Yaya could do it better. That being said, Busquets isn't capable of what Yaya did either.

Both are great players, Yaya was a favourite of mine, but after seeing Busquets at the Camp Nou I'm really impressed by him. He was probably the biggest surprise for me. I knew he was good, but this guy really is a superb player, incredible ball control and what he does off the ball when the camera isn't watching him is also excellent. A player that should be watched by all youngsters as he's simple, but also simply text book. The way he toys with people trying to get the ball off him is also great to watch live

I don't like to compare them, both great players. What I do know is... I wish Yaya had stayed instead of Keita and Mascherano. This season he'd be very useful with plenty of games at CB, DM, and CM.

Nice comments. Fair points.

BarcaKizz wrote:

The Franchise wrote:No, Busquets still isnt better then Yaya was. My opinion, wont say more.

I wouldn't dismiss it so quickly. I like the quote that Busquets is a player of an extinct species. He's very unique and its almost unfair to compare him to other players. The midfield of 08-09 was also extremely different to this one. Both midfields are incredible in my opinion. Yaya was more of a beast, sat higher up and gave more drive. Busquets sits deeper, and stays there allowing for the evolution in Barca's game where even more players go forward, often with Busquets as the 2nd or last man. Busquets gains very little recognition for his role, but he does do it superbly, and not even Yaya could do it better. That being said, Busquets isn't capable of what Yaya did either.

Both are great players, Yaya was a favourite of mine, but after seeing Busquets at the Camp Nou I'm really impressed by him. He was probably the biggest surprise for me. I knew he was good, but this guy really is a superb player, incredible ball control and what he does off the ball when the camera isn't watching him is also excellent. A player that should be watched by all youngsters as he's simple, but also simply text book. The way he toys with people trying to get the ball off him is also great to watch live

I don't like to compare them, both great players. What I do know is... I wish Yaya had stayed instead of Keita and Mascherano. This season he'd be very useful with plenty of games at CB, DM, and CM.

Well its close, no question. I do appreciate Busi, a heck of alot more then I used to aswell. But I dont want go into why I think one is better then the other. If I never have that debate again I would be happy lol

Either way, I think everyone (nearly) would agree at least Yaya staying over Keita or Mascherano arriving would of been great.

Disclaimer: Adit is a Valdes hater, thus all Barca fan's should take what ever he says with a pinch of salt

The Franchise wrote:
Well its close, no question. I do appreciate Busi, a heck of alot more then I used to aswell.

Same here dani. This last season my appreciation of him has grown several times. I promised that if we win UCL 2011 I will never again point out any shortcomings of Busquets and say that we should have still had Yaya. So I will stick with that. My current question was not about the two players. It was about their two seasons. Yaya 2008-09 or Busquets 2010-11? That too it was mainly meant for you. You answered it and the matter is over. Also I would like to give credit to people like alex, cat, kizz and some others who recognized the potential of Busquets much before I did.

Last season when Goal.com announced player number 28 I guessed the remaining 27 in the list irrespective of order and every one of my picks proved correct.

This time after player number 29 has been announced I am still not feeling so confident. I have narrowed down my picks to 29 but only 28 places are left. Even if I get the best possible outcome there will still be one player from my list who will not make it. Also I could still be missing one or more names who will be there.

Here is my list of 29. Anyone wishes to suggest any additions or subtractions? Please note the list is totally unordered.


Lionel Messi
Xavi
Andres Iniesta
Dani Alves
Eric Abidal
David Villa
Gerard Pique
Pedro
Cristiano Ronaldo
Mesut Ozil
Ricardo Carvalho
Giuseppe Rossi
Sergio Aguero
Edwin van der Sar
Nemanja Vidic
Wayne Rooney
Javier Hernandez
Carlos Tevez
Luis Suarez
Thiago Silva
Zlatan Ibrahimovic
Samuel Eto'o
Edinson Cavani
Alexis Sanchez
Antonio Di Natale
Nuri Sahin
Manuel Neuer
Hulk
Falcao

Good list. I think that will be more or less spot on.

Perhaps Chicharito Hernandez won't be there, cause I think he wasn't by any means a top-28 player last season, so if he has not appeared until now, he might not appear in the list at all.

Also, I have doubts with Ricardo Carvalho. I think that Pepe was better than him and Pepe has not been on the list yet.

The rest will be there for sure.

Pepe will most likely be there, Carvalho probably not.

free_cat wrote:Good list. I think that will be more or less spot on.

Perhaps Chicharito Hernandez won't be there, cause I think he wasn't by any means a top-28 player last season, so if he has not appeared until now, he might not appear in the list at all.

Also, I have doubts with Ricardo Carvalho. I think that Pepe was better than him and Pepe has not been on the list yet.

The rest will be there for sure.

Thanks a lot cat.

I think Chicharito will be there because he had a breakthrough season ending with winning best player at the CONCACAF Gold Cup.

About Carvalho his first half of the season was very good. I am not sure about him though. Neither am I sure about Pepe.

It's got more complicated today because numbers 28 and 27 were those not on my list - Wesley Sneijder and Luka Modric.