La Liga 2023/24

Yeah, I'm not AT ALL pro-union.  They're super corrupt generally too and do more harm than good.  But in this case, the management is running crazy.  

But sports unions are very very small.  Each team chooses a union representative via player vote.  Then the team union reps vote for a union chief.  They typically have players pay a union fee so that, if they need to hold out, the players who need the money can survive.  They also make sure that the lower-level players get standard benefits, minimum pay, etc.

In France and the US, if a certain percentage of the employees (in this case, the players) vote to create a union...  the owner cannot stop them.  By law, the union is forced on the enterprise.

Hope it happens in this particular case.  Something needs to get in the way of the greed.

halamadrid2 wrote:You didn't scrape through. Osasuna hardly threatened you all game.

These Osasuna players are so bloody slow a snail could probably run faster than them.

Can't wait for the final on Sunday. It's going to be great.

If Kepa starts we are going to have to win 6-5 so hopefully we wrap him up in a gift basket and send his ass back to Chelsea.

Osasuna was bad but we are toothless, Xavi does not alter his tactics at all he is painfully one-dimensional but it was naive to expect anything else from a rookie manager. He should go back to qatar

Wait so I am going to guess you (& Barça fans in general) are not a fan of Xavi? Surprised even if out of ignorance

I think the squad isnt perfect and we lack a little creativity but Xavi is a poor and inflexible tactician and relies on close one-goal-margin wins to keep afloat, team looks disorganized on the pitch and there is no improvement for long stretches of time

It was also his mistake to push for Oriol Romeu instead of a legit DM which has now left us DM-less. Oriol is now transfer-listed and we dont have anyone to command the play in front of the CBs

I think he can improve and considering the circumstances he's done well but we need someone more experienced, not only his tactics are a problem but also talent ID.. I will try not to be overly harsh on him though as this job is one of the toughest in football and the bare minimum is not enough

sportsczy wrote:Yeah, I'm not AT ALL pro-union.  They're super corrupt generally too and do more harm than good.  But in this case, the management is running crazy.  

But sports unions are very very small.  Each team chooses a union representative via player vote.  Then the team union reps vote for a union chief.  They typically have players pay a union fee so that, if they need to hold out, the players who need the money can survive.  They also make sure that the lower-level players get standard benefits, minimum pay, etc.

In France and the US, if a certain percentage of the employees (in this case, the players) vote to create a union...  the owner cannot stop them.  By law, the union is forced on the enterprise.

Hope it happens in this particular case.  Something needs to get in the way of the greed.

But Sports, you are still ignoring an answer to the proposed union across 30+ countries. Can you name any union that is across several countries? I realize the US sports union are in effect in Canada because of a few teams Canada based, but that’s just 2 countries and the smaller country just going along. It is an exception as the auto unions for example are separate unions by country against the same countries.

Also how in the world can you manage this with such disparities with budget size capabilities?

For me I still like Xavi... I mean, as Myseyats mentioned, Barcas job is hard, especially considering our situation, so hes not done bad remember winning the league was a miracle already. CL were bad n performance are downward, but I refuse to believe its all on him, we just have too many declining/past it players, not good enough players, etc., as well, to expect too much. So I really think its difficult to judge him fully until we are more stable.

I dunno about other places n cules in general, but I feel like many other clubs fans also, a lot are pretty clueless n kneejerk n comment in anger where its always x or y's fault n black or white, no betweens For example Barcaforum this season been saying Lewand basically is our worst player (due to dip in form n aging) when last season he was like a god cos he was on form lol... so yea they tend to crucify Xavi this season more n more...

Hes made mistakes with having faith in some players but also got rid of some that needed to be ditched... so its a mixed bag n I hope hes given time...

futbol_bill wrote:

sportsczy wrote:Yeah, I'm not AT ALL pro-union.  They're super corrupt generally too and do more harm than good.  But in this case, the management is running crazy.  

But sports unions are very very small.  Each team chooses a union representative via player vote.  Then the team union reps vote for a union chief.  They typically have players pay a union fee so that, if they need to hold out, the players who need the money can survive.  They also make sure that the lower-level players get standard benefits, minimum pay, etc.

In France and the US, if a certain percentage of the employees (in this case, the players) vote to create a union...  the owner cannot stop them.  By law, the union is forced on the enterprise.

Hope it happens in this particular case.  Something needs to get in the way of the greed.

But Sports, you are still ignoring an answer to the proposed union across 30+ countries. Can you name any union that is across several countries? I realize the US sports union are in effect in Canada because of a few teams Canada based, but that’s just 2 countries and the smaller country just going along. It is an exception as the auto unions for example are separate unions by country against the same countries.

Also how in the world can you manage this with such disparities with budget size capabilities?

I'm saying that you have reps by level:
- club players choose a rep that acts as the one vote for the club
- each club rep votes for the league rep (which represents the country)
- each league rep votes for the overall football union rep to handle matters that are pan-european such as UEFA or super league

lol wishful thinking. fact is big clubs have their own interests at heart and that's understandable, its a business. Its always easy to put forward the democratic view and its just as easy to criticize it. The Spanish league couldn't even agree on tv funding.

The biggest thing also is players. The way football is, its an opportunity for players to make more money. Putting a ceiling on things goes against the agendas of top players and top agents. Even if the whole of Europe could come under one banner regarding ceilings, caps and unions, mid to top level players (if they're smart) aren't having it.

There's a reason why lebron and durant, who have been among the top in their sport in the last decade or two were stunned to hear what messi was making. Sounds like a good idea but the owners/presidents, top players (and even some mid players, pastore was paid very handsomely in comparison to his talents imo), and top agents aren't interested in none of that.

And whether we like it or not they're the ones who we watch the game for. i'm not interested in who Portsmouth or Recreativo can or cannot sign

US pro players are making what they are today because the revenue structures of the leagues created parity, leading to a lot more great teams, fan reach and great games… and this increasing the value of the leagues.  So they were able to exponentially increase overall revenue and the wages became what they are.   If they hadn’t done it, you would have had a handful of players make big ones and everybody else would get far far less money.

Also, lebron’s agent came out and said US athletes are the best monetized ones if you look at reach.  Basketball has nowhere near the fan base or revenue of a football player.  Revenue for Messi is actually over 10x what Lebron can generate per Rich Paul.  So in terms of wage as a % of revenue generation, Lebron makes a lot more than Messi.

That's not entirely true, there is no cap for MLB. NFL players don't get paid that well unless if you're a QB and the NFL has the biggest fan base in the US. NBA gets paid pretty well in the US but LeBron, Curry etc get most of their money through other resources like sponsorships. Players do not care about parity and the same teams from the NBA normally win the championships anyway so it's hardly a parity tbh.

Clutch wrote:That's not entirely true, there is no cap for MLB. NFL players don't get paid that well unless if you're a QB and the NFL has the biggest fan base in the US. NBA gets paid pretty well in the US but LeBron, Curry etc get most of their money through other resources like sponsorships. Players do not care about parity and the same teams from the NBA normally win the championships anyway so it's hardly a parity tbh.

Take a look at this:  LINK

And to put the previous chart in context, look at this: https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/what-are-the-most-popular-sports-in-the-world.html

Otani's pay grade tells you that MLB has no cap.

Absurd contract.

Sports, what you and I were discussing was us speculating what “might” be better for the overall game. But the reality is none of what we were discussing will be done for a whole variety of reasons. This discussion has gone to a debate on hypothetical statements!

To me it would be interesting if we could somehow get into a discussion with Flo about how he could tailor his next presentation on super league to be more acceptable, but the whole concept of player involvement, that not only means all organizations from Fifa, Uefa, leagues’ management, teams’ management and owners, player agents all drastically change and agree, let alone labor laws in all countries change. In other words it’s a pipe dream of yours! Your constant references to everything in the USA should stop!

sportsczy wrote:

Clutch wrote:That's not entirely true, there is no cap for MLB. NFL players don't get paid that well unless if you're a QB and the NFL has the biggest fan base in the US. NBA gets paid pretty well in the US but LeBron, Curry etc get most of their money through other resources like sponsorships. Players do not care about parity and the same teams from the NBA normally win the championships anyway so it's hardly a parity tbh.

Take a look at this:  LINK

And to put the previous chart in context, look at this: https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/what-are-the-most-popular-sports-in-the-world.html

Off topic, n prolly some bias since I hate cricket But how can cricket be the second most popular sport in the world My guess is Indian etc. huge pop. that skews the stats... no saying its not a fair reflection but u know what I mean....

futbol_bill wrote:Sports, what you and I were discussing was us speculating what “might” be better for the overall game. But the reality is none of what we were discussing will be done for a whole variety of reasons. This discussion has gone to a debate on hypothetical statements!

To me it would be interesting if we could somehow get into a discussion with Flo about how he could tailor his next presentation on super league to be more acceptable, but the whole concept of player involvement, that not only means all organizations from Fifa, Uefa, leagues’ management, teams’ management and owners, player agents all drastically change and agree, let alone labor laws in all countries change. In other words it’s a pipe dream of yours! Your constant references to everything in the USA should stop!

I don't think you get it. If clubs in a country create domestic players unions... it's within the context of domestic labor laws. The only added step is the domestic union chiefs choose a representative for negotiation with UEFA etc.

This exists in every single industry in Europe.

Pilots in the airline industry are the perfect example. You have domestic unions (here are a few examples):

ACA: The Austrian Cockpit Association
BeCA: The Belgian Cockpit Association
BUL-ALPA: The Bulgarian Airline Pilots Association
CRO-ALPA: The Hrvatski Sindikat Prometnih Pilota
PALPU: The Pancyprian Airline Pilots Union
DALPA: The Danish Air line Pilots Association
FPA: The Finnish Association
SNPL: The French Association

But then you have a union to represent them on the European stage: European Cockpit Association (ECA).

Clubs do the same thing, but not in the union context. How do you think UEFA works. The chiefs of the domestic leagues choose the head of UEFA for a 4 year term. FIFA is the same way.

There still has to be an overwhelming desire to create a union and there are zero signs of this in any country?

Xavi is finished !

Vini hattrick n not even HT. Over due rapage finally happening

That penalty was fraudulent

Myesyats wrote:That penalty was fraudulent

your team is fraudulent

Clutch wrote:

Myesyats wrote:That penalty was fraudulent

your team is fraudulent

Lol last year we thumped you in the same final, you're better but not by much and City showed you your place

Forgot Gundgoan was on Barca. How's he been