EURO 2020 Final: England - Italy

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Post by Myesyats Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:27 am

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Forza Italia tbh.

correct

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Post by rincon Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:36 am

Jesp wrote:
@farfan wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerson_Palmieri#Career_statistics

I was going over Emerson's stats and was surprised to find out the guy has completed one single season in his entire career. Laughing  93 league games in 10 years of football...

How is this guy a mainstay in the Italian NT? Surely there are better alternatives in Serie A, no?


that is what also mystifies me ...
like how the hell mancini didnt call up Federico Di Marco LWB, LB who in 35 games had 5 goals 6 assist, and davide faraoni (who is RB/RWB can play also as LB, LWB) who in 34 games had 4 goals and 6 assists!
when hellas verona had a very bad patch in second half... these two and the guy called ivan illicic and i forgot the portugese veteran player name but those 3-4 players virtually carried them ... those 4 had insane season really. a
atleast its a shock to me that both di marco and faraoni not getting call up.


even di ambrosio would have been better who can play on both flanks!
or better yet, dunno why Manuel Lazzari not being called up as RWB / RB. he is like 10 times better than di lorenzo

its insanity that emerson was called up... no offense but who hasnt played in Chelsea at all... is instant call up.

mancini got maybe a overall team ok but his team would have used the name above who are miles better than the called up ones in their respective positions

None of those players are better than Di Lorenzo. Most of them aren't even right backs. He has been excellent this tournament except for the penalty conceded to Belgium, only mistake basically.

Di Lorenzo - Spinazzpla is our best fullback combination.

Flotenzi should be there too now, and he is also better than those other options. Don't know if he is ready to play or not.

The only RB that could have been in the team of fit is Calabria.
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Post by rincon Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:40 am

@farfan wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerson_Palmieri#Career_statistics

I was going over Emerson's stats and was surprised to find out the guy has completed one single season in his entire career. Laughing 93 league games in 10 years of football...

How is this guy a mainstay in the Italian NT? Surely there are better alternatives in Serie A, no?

Yes it is this ridiculous. There is a weird lack of good Italian left backs after Spinazzola. Its also a strange situation because Emerson never plays for Chelsea yet always performs for Mancini so he is always called up.

The best situation for him and for the NT would be for him to leave Chelsea this summer. He always has links to Serie A teams but Chelsea usually prices them out
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Post by Guest Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:51 am

@rincon wrote:
Jesp wrote:
@farfan wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerson_Palmieri#Career_statistics

I was going over Emerson's stats and was surprised to find out the guy has completed one single season in his entire career. Laughing  93 league games in 10 years of football...

How is this guy a mainstay in the Italian NT? Surely there are better alternatives in Serie A, no?


that is what also mystifies me ...
like how the hell mancini didnt call up Federico Di Marco LWB, LB who in 35 games had 5 goals 6 assist, and davide faraoni (who is RB/RWB can play also as LB, LWB) who in 34 games had 4 goals and 6 assists!
when hellas verona had a very bad patch in second half... these two and the guy called ivan illicic and i forgot the portugese veteran player name but those 3-4 players virtually carried them ... those 4 had insane season really. a
atleast its a shock to me that both di marco and faraoni not getting call up.


even di ambrosio would have been better who can play on both flanks!
or better yet, dunno why Manuel Lazzari not being called up as RWB / RB. he is like 10 times better than di lorenzo

its insanity that emerson was called up... no offense but who hasnt played in Chelsea at all... is instant call up.

mancini got maybe a overall team ok but his team would have used the name above who are miles better than the called up ones in their respective positions

None of those players are better than Di Lorenzo. Most of them aren't even right backs. He has been excellent this tournament except for the penalty conceded to Belgium, only mistake basically.

Di Lorenzo - Spinazzpla is our best fullback combination.

Flotenzi should be there too now, and he is also better than those other options. Don't know if he is ready to play or not.

The only RB that could have been in the team of fit is Calabria.


i didnt meant ot say that as a replacement for spinazolla.
but surely emerson doesnt deserve to be there. not after federico di marco had a great season. even faraoni or di ambrosio can play there as a backup. emerson didnt even play half a season if i am correct

also i would prefer manual lazzari ahead of di lorenzo anyday. in fact mancini had him play in italy and he is miles better.
lazzari is small and quick, a goalscoring threat, even his defending is better than di lorenzo

but atleast they have to be in that italy squad. one of them if not all - lazzari and di marco

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Post by Robespierre Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:55 am

Darmian had his best year in career at Inter, Scudetto winner with some his decisive goals , he was not starter but solid back-up , B  level player, solid , International experience, he played good also Euro 2016 . He had requisites for being on roster. But he's mainly Right fullback and Mancini never rated him seriously

Anyway about LB ... At the beginning of Mancini era , the Left fullback was Biraghi ( who reminds when Italy risked to relegate in Serie B at Uefa Nations League but he scored the winning goal in Poland..)  , at that time he was at Inter (on loan) , now he's back at Fiorentina (his proper level) , but well Biraghi is Biraghi.
Definition of average player


Last edited by Robespierre on Sun Jul 11, 2021 10:01 am; edited 3 times in total
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Post by Robespierre Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:58 am

Lazzari is poor technically but he's very fast , but he 's proper for 3-5-2  . He 's capable to make difference in that sistem , but  as fullback he 's underachiever ( in fact we should see him under Sarri in his 4-3-3)  . Mancini never rated him for this reason
Anyway he 's right foot, problem about left fullbacks stays.
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Post by rincon Sun Jul 11, 2021 10:22 am

Jesp wrote:
@rincon wrote:
Jesp wrote:


that is what also mystifies me ...
like how the hell mancini didnt call up Federico Di Marco LWB, LB who in 35 games had 5 goals 6 assist, and davide faraoni (who is RB/RWB can play also as LB, LWB) who in 34 games had 4 goals and 6 assists!
when hellas verona had a very bad patch in second half... these two and the guy called ivan illicic and i forgot the portugese veteran player name but those 3-4 players virtually carried them ... those 4 had insane season really. a
atleast its a shock to me that both di marco and faraoni not getting call up.


even di ambrosio would have been better who can play on both flanks!
or better yet, dunno why Manuel Lazzari not being called up as RWB / RB. he is like 10 times better than di lorenzo

its insanity that emerson was called up... no offense but who hasnt played in Chelsea at all... is instant call up.

mancini got maybe a overall team ok but his team would have used the name above who are miles better than the called up ones in their respective positions

None of those players are better than Di Lorenzo. Most of them aren't even right backs. He has been excellent this tournament except for the penalty conceded to Belgium, only mistake basically.

Di Lorenzo - Spinazzpla is our best fullback combination.

Flotenzi should be there too now, and he is also better than those other options. Don't know if he is ready to play or not.

The only RB that could have been in the team of fit is Calabria.


i didnt meant ot say that as a replacement for spinazolla.
but surely emerson doesnt deserve to be there. not after federico di marco had a great season. even faraoni or di ambrosio can play there as a backup. emerson didnt even play half a season if i am correct

also i would prefer manual lazzari ahead of di lorenzo anyday. in fact mancini had him play in italy and he is miles better.
lazzari is small and quick, a goalscoring threat, even his defending is better than di lorenzo  

but atleast they have to be in that italy squad. one of them if not all - lazzari and di marco

Lazzarri is a wingback. Not a player for a back 4. Fits better as a winger in a 433 than he does as the right back for Mancini. He should be on the way out of Lazio for this reason too, there are links of him to Inter due to the Inzaghi/Sarri tactical mismatch.

With him as RB you basically need the LB to play as a third CB. A left side Toloi.
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Post by Guest Sun Jul 11, 2021 10:45 am

i know robes rincon .... lazarri is RWB. ofcourse because he plays in a 3-5-2 system. I know that he even played as a winger in SPAL.

what i am saying is that he can also adapt as RB. lets say di lorenzo and lazzari is in contention for the spot. lazzari is a quick player and he is very sound in defending, very sound in getting forward and providing a threat. and i wouldnt say he isnt technically sound, he was winger at SPAL.
its not my suggestion that di lorenzo should not be called up but i think both should be in contention for the spot as starting RB.


i guess im the only one who rates manuel lazzari as a proper player who can fill the void.

as for LB position, i guess yes darmian should have been in contention for the call up. and pretty surprised that no one rates federico di marco he had a stellar season...

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Post by Warrior Sun Jul 11, 2021 12:16 pm

To reply an earlier post: Emerson is expected at Napoli, has a verbal agreement with Spalletti. A good match in final would probably accelerate the move.
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Post by RealGunner Sun Jul 11, 2021 1:30 pm

How are we feeling britbros?

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Post by BarcaLearning Sun Jul 11, 2021 2:52 pm

I believe in Sterling Razz Come on now, become the English Messi that u can be Razz
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Post by Firenze Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:42 pm

We're 4 hours out and I'm feeling nauseous, genuinely. I was planning on getting a chinese takeaway but no chance now. Not someone that gets nervous usually. This is the biggest national event in 50 years. Once in a lifetime. I'm going in expecting Italy to win tbh, that way I can't be too disappointed. But I think it'll be a very competitive game.

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Post by Babun Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:55 pm

https://metro.co.uk/2021/07/11/england-fans-set-off-fireworks-where-italy-team-were-sleeping-ahead-of-euro-2020-final-14908192/

..
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Post by Arquitecto Sun Jul 11, 2021 4:26 pm

@Firenze wrote:We're 4 hours out and I'm feeling nauseous, genuinely. I was planning on getting a chinese takeaway but no chance now. Not someone that gets nervous usually. This is the biggest national event in 50 years. Once in a lifetime. I'm going in expecting Italy to win tbh, that way I can't be too disappointed. But I think it'll be a very competitive game.



Dont be. Italy are admittedly the better team but as Ive said England are just the team to exploit some growing weaknesses of them through the tournament.


And I am surprised more are not seeing that it doesnt require a footballing whiz to see the advantage England do have,

and who will see it past 10-15 mins.
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Post by Arquitecto Sun Jul 11, 2021 4:29 pm

Can anyone verify if there is ground to this?

England are apparently going to scrap their formation for a 3-5-2.

Which either tells me they are fearing Italian front-line too much or want a bigger advantage on the counter given Mancini's team IS highly susceptible to them.


Anyone give me their thoughts if should this happen thanks
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Post by RealGunner Sun Jul 11, 2021 4:45 pm

No idea but it's possible Southgate wants to use a similar system as against Germany.
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Post by RealGunner Sun Jul 11, 2021 4:46 pm



lmao wtf is this
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Post by Arquitecto Sun Jul 11, 2021 4:49 pm

Yep. Confirmed then thanks RG.

It adds further defensive stability and has Italy more susceptible to a counter.

I cannot see how this is a bad thing even if it is a safer approach.

England are playing to their strengths.
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Post by RealGunner Sun Jul 11, 2021 5:08 pm

I mean southgate has gotten us to the final so i trust him but playing with just 3 attackers....
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Post by Sina Sun Jul 11, 2021 5:19 pm

But doesnt italys press match up better(man for man) against back 3 teams?
Englands press better in 4231
Whereas in 343 they will have rely more on wing backs to get tight in press other wise work of front 3+ cms get undone since italy will have it easier to create free man to evade the press

Eng in back 4 can can force italys wide players track back and allow eng to dominate the ball
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I think switch to back 3 by eng favors italy they would be more likely to dominTe the ball and territory rather than being forced back rely on counters which happened vs spain
Against back 3 italy wide forwards press outside centerbacks instead

I was rewatching semi final with tactical camera and it was intersting how italys center backs werent sure how far to track olmo or leave him and get back while everyone else was close to their direct opponent
Thats something for Kane to exploit (dropping deep and playing steriling in behind)
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Post by El Gunner Sun Jul 11, 2021 5:34 pm

classic Southgate Laughing playing boring and safe

let's go Italia!
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Post by Arquitecto Sun Jul 11, 2021 6:01 pm

@Sina wrote:But doesnt italys press match up better(man for man) against back 3 teams?
Englands press better in 4231
Whereas in 343 they will have rely more on wing backs to get tight in press other wise work of front 3+ cms get undone since italy will have it easier to create free man to evade the press

Eng in back 4 can can force italys wide players track back and allow eng to dominate the ball
Rolling
I think switch to back 3 by eng favors italy they would be more likely to dominTe the ball and territory rather than being forced back rely on counters which happened vs spain
Against back 3 italy wide forwards press outside centerbacks instead

I was rewatching semi final with tactical camera and it was intersting how italys center backs werent sure how far to track olmo or leave him and get back while everyone else was close to their direct opponent
Thats something for Kane to exploit (dropping deep and playing steriling in behind)


Some very good points here Sina.

But in counter to that keep in mind Italy play 4-3-3 as we know.

A 3-5-2 sitting back will give them a flat numerical advantage v Italy in which the defence, and the tournaments best so far (numerically speaking) will nullify what is a front line that does not exactly exchange with another alone. A lot of Italian goals from the front have been through individual efforts as the only interplay has been from off the ball runs from Immobile to Chiesa where Insigne prefers to stay more wide before cutting inside.

Deep in possession in Italian final third if they lose possession England are set-up for the counter attack they need and are aiming for.

Italian midfield has no destroyers and are physically frail if anything and do not like to defend, even Barella.

The use of Trippier and Walker will give them enough pace on counters to bypass Mancini's midfield, trouble fullbacks who are vulnerable to speed via Sterling and Walker, and fed onto Kane who will drop deep to release Sterling and keep things unpredictable.


In fact Southgate seems to have made the correct plan here.


Not taking on directly in their game but exploiting what they are weak at.
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Post by Robespierre Sun Jul 11, 2021 6:13 pm

Anxiety, cloudy restlessness
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Post by El Gunner Sun Jul 11, 2021 6:22 pm

[removed - nudity and not even a woman]
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Post by RealGunner Sun Jul 11, 2021 6:40 pm

 EURO 2020 Final:  England - Italy - Page 5 E6CGHNMWEAQWgdV?format=jpg&name=small

confirmed
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Post by RealGunner Sun Jul 11, 2021 6:40 pm

ITA XI vs #ENG: Donnarumma; Di Lorenzo, Bonucci, Chiellini, Emerson; Barella, Jorginho, Verratti; Chiesa, Immobile, Insigne
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