The Official Dwayne Wade <<<<<< you thread

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon May 17, 2021 3:04 pm

El Gunner wrote:@Mole, why is Steven Adams and Willy Gomez still stealing minutes away from Jaxson Hayes?? of course he is not perfect or a finished product yet... but dude is good enough to be the main centre partner to Zion in order for them to grow together and develop their understanding on court.


Just seen this, Hayes isn't ready for 30 minutes a night lol is the short answer.

He probably will be at some point next season though, the growth he's shown the second half of the season has been one of this season's positives and good enough reason to focus team building on wings/guards.

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Post by Warrior Mon May 17, 2021 3:56 pm

Clippers are pussies Laughing

The whole playoff bracket is looking very good, interesting games all over the place in 1st round

I had doubts on the play-in tournament, but now that we know who's there, it's hard to dislike it
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Post by El Gunner Mon May 17, 2021 4:12 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Nah, we all know what Lebron is doing here lol.

Let's not be naive.

trying to big up someone he beats on Wednesday night??
Well it ain't happening lol!
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon May 17, 2021 4:16 pm

Correct, i can sense his bullshit from a mile away lol.

Credit to Lebron tho unlike his stans he knows he's supposed to praise his competition and not shit on them lol.
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Post by El Gunner Mon May 17, 2021 4:16 pm

anyway since the regular season is over, here are my picks:

MVP:
1. Steph
2. Jokic
3. Booker

Rookie of the Year:
1. LaMelo
2. Edwards
3. Haliburton

6th Man of the Year:
Jordan Clarkson

Most Improved:
Julius Randle

Defensive Player of the Year:
Ben Simmons

Coach of the Year:
Tom Thibodeau
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Post by El Gunner Mon May 17, 2021 4:20 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Correct, i can sense his bullshit from a mile away lol.

Credit to Lebron tho unlike his stans he knows he's supposed to praise his competition and not shit on them lol.

but you really don't think there's a case for Steph? I see more people in the media and public waking up and naming him, which is good. We have a 5th seed record with him actually being fit and on the floor if we disregard the games he's missed. The narrative is also there, most dummies out there said he wouldn't be able to carry a team without Klay and KD. And the Warriors actually have a better team winning percentage than Russ had when he won it? LeBron may be frontin' a bit but in theory everything he said in that audio clip is true... why do we care so much about team records when we probably should just be looking at all players and seeing who had the biggest value to their team and the league season.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon May 17, 2021 4:26 pm

Nah, you can't give MVP to a 8th seed.

It's Jokic all day long.

Jokic averaging 26/10/8 on 56/39/86 shooting splits with a TS% of 64.8 while leading his team in all major categories and leading his team to the three seed. We need to stop acting like the MVP race is close. It’s disrespectful.

Steph has been amazing but he isn't MVP, we can praise Steph say he's one of the best scorers to ever live and give him credit for the carrying Golden State into the playoffs without the MVP stuff.
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Post by Warrior Mon May 17, 2021 4:59 pm

El Gunner wrote:anyway since the regular season is over, here are my picks:

MVP:
1. Steph
2. Jokic
3. Booker

Rookie of the Year:
1. LaMelo
2. Edwards
3. Haliburton

6th Man of the Year:
Jordan Clarkson

Most Improved:
Julius Randle

Defensive Player of the Year:
Ben Simmons

Coach of the Year:
Tom Thibodeau


-MVP-
Jokic
Curry
Embiid/Giannis hard to choose but Jokic is 100% MVP anyways

-DPOY-
Gobert

The rest i agree with you
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Post by El Gunner Mon May 17, 2021 6:21 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Nah, you can't give MVP to a 8th seed.

It's Jokic all day long.

Jokic averaging 26/10/8 on 56/39/86 shooting splits with a TS% of 64.8 while leading his team in all major categories and leading his team to the three seed. We need to stop acting like the MVP race is close. It’s disrespectful.

Steph has been amazing but he isn't MVP, we can praise Steph say he's one of the best scorers to ever live and give him credit for the carrying Golden State into the playoffs without the MVP stuff.
and that's exactly the point, a bunch of bullcrap

what a fucking insult to the GOAT, he's much more than that Laughing
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Post by Art Morte Mon May 17, 2021 6:42 pm

Jokic has had more help than Steph. I dislike the MVP award anyway (and adore Jokic), but it's more impressive to me what Steph has done with that average GS roster. Winning the scoring title on that team, with good percentages, is just nutty.
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Post by CBarca Tue May 18, 2021 1:33 am

Jokic is easily the MVP, stop guys.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue May 18, 2021 3:13 am

El Gunner wrote:
Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Nah, you can't give MVP to a 8th seed.

It's Jokic all day long.

Jokic averaging 26/10/8 on 56/39/86 shooting splits with a TS% of 64.8 while leading his team in all major categories and leading his team to the three seed. We need to stop acting like the MVP race is close. It’s disrespectful.

Steph has been amazing but he isn't MVP, we can praise Steph say he's one of the best scorers to ever live and give him credit for the carrying Golden State into the playoffs without the MVP stuff.
and that's exactly the point, a bunch of bullcrap

what a fucking insult to the GOAT, he's much more than that Laughing


It's almost like the MVP isn't a career award.

You're being ridiculous lol, even Golden State fans admit Jokic is MVP.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue May 18, 2021 3:16 am

The more help argument is dumb as hell too, have you all forgotten that Murray went down and they kept winning.

You're literally arguing for someone whose team is in the 8th seed. Don't be so ridiculous.

Fortunately the voters aren't this ridiculous. But I'm starting to remember why i don't post as much anymore, the idiotic Stephen A style takes and understanding is beyond comprehension.


Last edited by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Tue May 18, 2021 3:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Warrior Tue May 18, 2021 3:22 am

Jokic is not hype enough

The same season by Giannis and there is zero debate on MVP
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Post by Art Morte Tue May 18, 2021 6:19 am

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:The more help argument is dumb as hell too, have you all forgotten that Murray went down and they kept winning.

You're literally arguing for someone whose team is in the 8th seed. Don't be so ridiculous.

Fortunately the voters aren't this ridiculous. But I'm starting to remember why i don't post as much anymore, the idiotic Stephen A style takes and understanding is beyond comprehension.


If you can't handle different opinions to yours, yeah, maybe being on a discussion forum isn't for you.
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Post by The Franchise Tue May 18, 2021 8:55 am

How can an 8th seed be MVP Laughing

Just no. Its a fun story and all but no, he isnt even top 3.

Joker, Embiid and CP3. He isnt even 4th.

There is precedent for this already. Even Kobe in the 35ppg season wasnt in legit MVP discussions and they finished 6th. And rightly so, he was great in that season, far better than Curry is today, but you cant be MVP when your team takes this many L's.
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Post by Freeza Tue May 18, 2021 10:09 am

Also let's not act like Jokic didn't have a historic season. He's so clearly the MVP.

Hell, only thing he's not better than Curry at is scoring. And still he's less than a percentage off in TS%.

His scoring this season is absolutely wild. At something like 60/38/87. Also looking at these stats I can't get over how efficient MPJ actually is. How does a kid his age have a 65% EFG Laughing

Other advanced stats:
Win Shares:
1st place: Jokic at 15.6
2nd place: Gobert at 11.3
...
7th: Curry at 9.0
Rest of the list above Steph is Lillard, Giannis, Butler, CP3. No one close to Jokic at all though.

Jokic also leads in PER, box score +/- and VORP. He basically leads in every single advanced stats

VORP (literally determining value over replacement level players)
1st place: Jokic at 8.6
2nd place: Giannis 5.5
3rd place: Curry at 5.5

BPM:
1st: Jokic at 11.7
2nd: Giannis at 8.8
3rd Curry at 8.1

I can't find a single statistical argument for Steph really. All stats are on Jokic's side. Record is on Jokic's side. And value is on his side too.
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Post by Art Morte Tue May 18, 2021 10:13 am

I dislike the MVP award, because a) individual awards in team sports are always imperfect and b) calling it the most "valuable" makes it even murkier than trying to find the outright best player, imo.

Jokic is incredible and I'm happy for him to win it. But if you replaced Curry with Jokic, Embiid or Paul, I don't think this Golden State team is doing any better, in fact I find it likely they would do worse. The way Curry took care of scoring among those scrubs was phenomenal.

Also, personally I don't care about the standings. You could have a prime Jordan in this year's Pistons team and they probably wouldn't crack .500 win percentage.
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Post by El Gunner Tue May 18, 2021 10:18 am

Art Morte wrote:
Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:The more help argument is dumb as hell too, have you all forgotten that Murray went down and they kept winning.

You're literally arguing for someone whose team is in the 8th seed. Don't be so ridiculous.

Fortunately the voters aren't this ridiculous. But I'm starting to remember why i don't post as much anymore, the idiotic Stephen A style takes and understanding is beyond comprehension.


If you can't handle different opinions to yours, yeah, maybe being on a discussion forum isn't for you.

Mole is an OG Capricorn, he can't handle other's opinions

The Franchise wrote:How can an 8th seed be MVP Laughing

Just no. Its a fun story and all but no, he isnt even top 3.

Joker, Embiid and CP3. He isnt even 4th.

There is precedent for this already. Even Kobe in the 35ppg season wasnt in legit MVP discussions and they finished 6th. And rightly so, he was great in that season, far better than Curry is today, but you cant be MVP when your team takes this many L's.

Sleep
and yet Westbrook won an MVP as a sixth seed and a worse winning percentage than what GSW finished with this season

Kobe chucked up hella shots that season he averaged 35 pts 20.7 attempts a game from 2-pt range and 6.5 attempts from 3-pt range on an effective field goal percentage of .491 (almost as stat paddy as Westbrook's season... Nash won because of his guile and incredible efficiency)
Whilst Steph attempted 9 shots from 2-pt range and 12.7 from 3-pt range in a more shot friendly era with an effective field goal percentage of .605 (that's Nash efficiency and just way more classy than what Kobe and Russ did)

but yea continue dismissively laughing at the thought of him actually being the legit MVP of this season


Last edited by El Gunner on Tue May 18, 2021 10:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by El Gunner Tue May 18, 2021 10:24 am

@Freeza good stats for arguing for Jokic... im sure i could go dig up some stats that are in Steph's favour too but im really not that down bad to backup my opinion against you lot

I'm just calling it how i see it... and luckily im not alone in on it so nobody can call me a madman. I wouldn't be mad at all if Jokic won it, he is a unique player and i'm a big of fan of his game... but i'll still maintain Curry had the more MVP-worthy season for now and for always
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Post by Freeza Tue May 18, 2021 10:44 am

El Gunner wrote:
Art Morte wrote:
Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:The more help argument is dumb as hell too, have you all forgotten that Murray went down and they kept winning.

You're literally arguing for someone whose team is in the 8th seed. Don't be so ridiculous.

Fortunately the voters aren't this ridiculous. But I'm starting to remember why i don't post as much anymore, the idiotic Stephen A style takes and understanding is beyond comprehension.


If you can't handle different opinions to yours, yeah, maybe being on a discussion forum isn't for you.

Mole is an OG Capricorn, he can't handle other's opinions

The Franchise wrote:How can an 8th seed be MVP Laughing

Just no. Its a fun story and all but no, he isnt even top 3.

Joker, Embiid and CP3. He isnt even 4th.

There is precedent for this already. Even Kobe in the 35ppg season wasnt in legit MVP discussions and they finished 6th. And rightly so, he was great in that season, far better than Curry is today, but you cant be MVP when your team takes this many L's.

Sleep
and yet Westbrook won an MVP as a sixth seed and a worse winning percentage than what GSW finished with this season

Kobe chucked up hella shots that season he averaged 35 pts 20.7 attempts a game from 2-pt range and 6.5 attempts from 3-pt range on an effective field goal percentage of .491 (almost as stat paddy as Westbrook's season... Nash won because of his guile and incredible efficiency)
Whilst Steph attempted 9 shots from 2-pt range and 12.7 from 3-pt range in a more shot friendly era with an effective field goal percentage of .605 (that's Nash efficiency and just way more classy than what Kobe and Russ did)

but yea continue dismissively laughing at the thought of him actually being the legit MVP of this season


You do realize Kobe was 4th in voting that year right? Don't really see how it's all that relevant lol. And Steph had better teammates this year than Kobe did then. Starting lineups looking like Smush-Kobe-Cook-Odom-Kwame/Mihm.

All your arguments for Curry are wild considering you've got Booker at 3. And he has no fucking argument what so ever other than record Laughing

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Post by Freeza Tue May 18, 2021 10:45 am

El Gunner wrote:@Freeza good stats for arguing for Jokic... im sure i could go dig up some stats that are in Steph's favour too but im really not that down bad to backup my opinion against you lot

I'm just calling it how i see it... and luckily im not alone in on it so nobody can call me a madman. I wouldn't be mad at all if Jokic won it, he is a unique player and i'm a big of fan of his game... but i'll still maintain Curry had the more MVP-worthy season for now and for always


Find a single Curry stat comparing him to Jokic where he's better please.

And not some 3ptm stat.
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Post by Freeza Tue May 18, 2021 10:45 am

Freeza wrote:Also let's not act like Jokic didn't have a historic season. He's so clearly the MVP.

Hell, only thing he's not better than Curry at is scoring. And still he's less than a percentage off in TS%.

His scoring this season is absolutely wild. At something like 60/38/87. Also looking at these stats I can't get over how efficient MPJ actually is. How does a kid his age have a 65% EFG Laughing

Other advanced stats:
Win Shares:
1st place: Jokic at 15.6
2nd place: Gobert at 11.3
...
7th: Curry at 9.0
Rest of the list above Steph is Lillard, Giannis, Butler, CP3. No one close to Jokic at all though.

Jokic also leads in PER, box score +/- and VORP. He basically leads in every single advanced stats

VORP (literally determining value over replacement level players)
1st place: Jokic at 8.6
2nd place: Giannis 5.5
3rd place: Curry at 5.5

BPM:
1st: Jokic at 11.7
2nd: Giannis at 8.8
3rd Curry at 8.1

I can't find a single statistical argument for Steph really. All stats are on Jokic's side. Record is on Jokic's side. And value is on his side too.


Also forgot the most important stat: Nuggets didn't win a single game when Jokic didn't play.
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Post by The Franchise Tue May 18, 2021 10:54 am

El Gunner wrote:
and yet Westbrook won an MVP as a sixth seed and a worse winning percentage than what GSW finished with this season

Kobe chucked up hella shots that season he averaged 35 pts 20.7 attempts a game from 2-pt range and 6.5 attempts from 3-pt range on an effective field goal percentage of .491 (almost as stat paddy as Westbrook's season... Nash won because of his guile and incredible efficiency)
Whilst Steph attempted 9 shots from 2-pt range and 12.7 from 3-pt range in a more shot friendly era with an effective field goal percentage of .605 (that's Nash efficiency and just way more classy than what Kobe and Russ did)

but yea continue dismissively laughing at the thought of him actually being the legit MVP of this season


But Westbrook should not have been the MVP either. That broke the precedent because this new age fascination with stat padding triple doubles. If Westbrook done the same exact thing with 1 less rebound and assist, I highly doubt he wins the MVP. Its all narrative.

And Kobe played with absolute bums like Kwame Brown and Smush Parker. Of course he jacked shots.

He had no player anywhere near as good as Wiggins in terms of shot creation and nobody as good a defender or play maker as Green (though Odom was decent in both areas).

I am sorry, but is indeed laughable for Curry to be MVP talk while being in 8th place. It is of no fault of his own, but rewarding such mediocrity just doesnt make any sense.
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Post by The Franchise Tue May 18, 2021 11:01 am

And the only reason I mentioned Kobe, just fyi, is because he to me was the number 1 example of an absolutely all time great player having an all time great individual season (as Curry is now) but no matter how great he plays he cannot win the MVP because his team is just not good enough.

The criteria is strange enough already, it already makes little sense at times, but once you give the award to players who's team aren't even good, there is no point in the award at all. Especially not when you have candidates who are having just as dominating an individual (if not more so with Jokic) with a team he is responsible for being one of the best in the league.

All this talk about "if Jokic was on the Warriors, they may be even worse than they are now" is pie in the sky, unproven theories. We have no idea what they would be like and more importantly, the Warriors are constructed with Steph in mind, not Jokic, so why would we even imagine them being as good or not?
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Post by El Gunner Tue May 18, 2021 11:17 am

so i guess we might as well just change the award to the "most valuable team" of the season... oh wait, doesn't the league standings and the playoffs account for that... ridiculous lol

it all comes down to criteria and assessment at the end of the day... and some criterion are more silly than others.. the stupid team record rule being one of them -- which is an unwritten criterion, mind you, i don't know who came up with it... even still y'all are acting like GSW finished 13 or 14th Laughing given the context of the team, how a whole lot of people predicted Curry would be exposed this season, the strength of the western conference and the fact that the GSW record when Curry played suggests we could have been as high as a 5th seed had he been fit all season, and his incredible efficiency... the eventual 8th seed and Curry's season becomes very impressive from all facets and points of view... and is indeed very MVP-worthy.

And if you don't agree with that, i couldn't really care less tbh
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