The Official Dwayne Wade <<<<<< you thread

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Post by El Gunner Tue May 18, 2021 11:17 am

so i guess we might as well just change the award to the "most valuable team" of the season... oh wait, doesn't the league standings and the playoffs account for that... ridiculous lol

it all comes down to criteria and assessment at the end of the day... and some criterion are more silly than others.. the stupid team record rule being one of them -- which is an unwritten criterion, mind you, i don't know who came up with it... even still y'all are acting like GSW finished 13 or 14th Laughing given the context of the team, how a whole lot of people predicted Curry would be exposed this season, the strength of the western conference and the fact that the GSW record when Curry played suggests we could have been as high as a 5th seed had he been fit all season, and his incredible efficiency... the eventual 8th seed and Curry's season becomes very impressive from all facets and points of view... and is indeed very MVP-worthy.

And if you don't agree with that, i couldn't really care less tbh

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Post by The Franchise Tue May 18, 2021 11:21 am

Nonsense mate. If that was what is being suggested, surely we would have someone from the Jazz being mentioned?

But you cant ignore it totally, its all part of the equation and I cant understand why you'd ignore it to this degree.

Just because some people said "Curry would be exposed" doesnt deem extra credit, this is using a narrative to advance another.

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Post by El Gunner Tue May 18, 2021 11:22 am

@Freeza my high-ranking of Booker is because Suns would not even be talked about, and would be a borderline playoff team without him... whilst having had an efficient scoring season at it. Their entire legitimacy is built around him... If and when they falter in the playoffs it would mostly be because of him not scoring enough or being clutch enough... this is of course knowing that their team are not good enough overall to compete for a Chip


Last edited by El Gunner on Tue May 18, 2021 11:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by El Gunner Tue May 18, 2021 11:24 am

@The Franchise wrote:Nonsense mate. If that was what is being suggested, surely we would have someone from the Jazz being mentioned?

But you cant ignore it totally, its all part of the equation and I cant understand why you'd ignore it to this degree.

Just because some people said "Curry would be exposed" doesnt deem extra credit, this is using a narrative to advance another.


im not totally discounting it, but the way you guys are preaching for it, it seems like it becomes the be-all and end-all of MVP criteria for y'all... or at least concerning the argument against Steph

like i said it all comes down to each one's assessment at the end... y'all can disagree, it's cool, but i'll stand by my argument knowing i have lots of solid foundation underneath it
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Post by Freeza Tue May 18, 2021 11:31 am

Record when healthy isn’t a valid argument. You have negative value for any games you miss. That’s another reason why Jokic is unquestionably the MVP.

Also still waiting for the argument for 24/4/4 Booker, second best player on his own team being third
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Post by The Franchise Tue May 18, 2021 11:38 am

Fair enough, we can always agree to disagree.

I dont think team record is the be all and end all, I would never call someone an MVP because their team had 4 or 5 more wins than the runner up's team for example.

But as I say, I think there is a line somewhere, even if its an arbitrary one which to me the 8th seed (even the 6th seed) crosses.

In an absence of legit candidates (lets say Joker and Giannis both missed half the season through injury, Embiid was as underwhelming as he was last season, CP3 was still on the Thunder) then maybe I could entertain it, but those 4 guys have had comparable seasons individually (Joker and Embiid I would say better seasons) with near-elite teams.

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Post by El Gunner Tue May 18, 2021 11:48 am

@Freeza wrote:Record when healthy isn’t a valid argument. You have negative value for any games you miss. That’s another reason why Jokic is unquestionably the MVP.

Also still waiting for the argument for 24/4/4 Booker, second best player on his own team being third

it's literally two posts above... he isn't the second best player on his team
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Post by Warrior Tue May 18, 2021 3:23 pm

If you consider Most Valuable Player of the season as something evaluated strictly within one's own team... that is the root of the disagreement. League results must be taken into account or else Damian Lillard is a perpetual MVP.

Spare me the stats since everybody in MVP discussion has great stats. There is not much argument against Curry in fact

But Jokic has equal if not more influence the 3rd team in the west. Nuggets are considered a great team precisely because Jokic is their main player. He missed zero games this season was dominant each night. Although good scorers i don't believe 75% of Jamal Murray and Michael Porter Jr would carry Nuggets where they are.

On another topic, i watched Suns more often than expected
Booker is not the main reason for their success. Respect for Chris Paul and Mikal Bridges imo
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Post by El Gunner Tue May 18, 2021 4:52 pm

baskets win you games more often than anything else... I watched a lot of Suns games this season too... whenever Suns needed a basket in a pivotal moment in the game such as to go ahead, or to stem the flow of momentum of the other team... they put the ball in Booker's hands to go do his thing. Sometimes Paul, but mostly Booker. I rest my case. I suppose we just see and value certain aspects differently when it comes to performance level and sport.
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Post by Warrior Tue May 18, 2021 5:16 pm

Don't get me wrong Booker was good and important piece of the team

Suns are well-crafted that's what i highlight here

Paul is the mastermind. Booker is the big scorer. The prison Mikal Bridges who takes the important offensive rebounds, sinks his 3s reliably. Dario Saric is underrated in the sense that his game don't translate on the stat sheet. Ayton is a bit soft to my liking but a useful presence in the paint.

Really a collective effort. If anything the coach deserves the most praise.
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Post by Freeza Tue May 18, 2021 8:50 pm

Chris Paul is basically the coach. One of the greatest basketball minds ever. Not a PG I’d take over him to lead a team the last 25 years.

Like he improves every team he join by 20-30% win rate. Only team he barely improved was the OKC team and they lost both Westbrook and PG and still won more.

Chris Paul = guaranteed wins. Still sad about that trade and I’ll never get over it.
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Post by El Gunner Tue May 18, 2021 9:53 pm

sooooo... is Steph Curry not a point guard anymore?
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Post by Freeza Wed May 19, 2021 9:50 am

@El Gunner wrote:sooooo... is Steph Curry not a point guard anymore?


I have Steph as a SG and there's plenty of stats etc to back it up. Probably a Combo Guard at best. He's probably the greatest off-ball shooter of all time. And he's not best when he's a point.

That said. I'd pick CP3 over Curry, but it's close. He fits much better for what I'd want in my team. All around game with no weaknesses at all.
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Post by El Gunner Wed May 19, 2021 10:44 am

guess you're satisfied with no rings then Laughing

i agree on the Steph assessment, he's not a pure point guard. I'm a big CP3 fan, i've often said if i could have any point guard's skills, i would like to have his because he is so well rounded overall. But picking him over Steph for an all-time team, or to build around would just be plain stupid and blasphemous, and i think beyond your hipster takes you also know it's true.

Steph... the guy who will end up consensus on the Mt. Rushmore of all-time NBA players for changing the game in such a unique way... if not soon, 30 years from now and onward when all the old-timers who rep Bill Russell, Kareem and Wilt die out.
Steph... the guy who constantly leaves CP3 on his backside whenever they face off.
Steph... the guy who constantly makes James Harden and Dame Lillard fans cry
Steph... the guy who saved the world from a LeBron "GOAT" wankfest by taking 3 rings away from his thus far.
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Post by Freeza Wed May 19, 2021 11:06 am

It's not like it's a wild claim lol

Have you even watched what CP3 has done for 15 years?

Like let's compare them

Career PER:
CP3: 24.9
Steph: 24.0

Career Win Share:
CP3: 189.5 (9.2 this season and .240 win share per 48)
Steph: 112.2 (9.0 this season and .206 win share per 48)

VORP
CP3: 89.7 in 16 seasons. That 5.6 per season.
Steph: 56.3 in 12 seasons. That's 4.6 per season.

Box score +/- (BPM):
CP3: 7.4 career average
Steph: 6.5 career average

Bid difference here is that Steph gets all his value on offense, but he's not negative on defense. While CP3 is 2BPM better on defense and only 1 worse on offense.

CP3 is leading in most advanced statistics so far. Curry will probably make it even once it all said and done. He's the best PG defender since Gary Payton, one of the top 5 all time playmakers, and incredibly efficient.

Also you're clearly overrating Steph as he's your own player, and you have a tendency to be a bit of blowhard when it comes to the warriors.

He's not gonna end up on the top 4 when he's done lol. He's barely gonna be top 4 for this generation. There's two players who are clearly above him in LeBron and Durant. Then there's Harden and Giannis who'll also surpass him if they get a ring at some point.

Also I'm not sure I agree with Curry somehow leaving CP3 on his backside, when these are the stats:
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It's incredibly even all over. And none of their playoff matchups are impressive enough to leave any of the two in dust.

And let's not act like Steph stole anything from LeBron lol. KD stole two rings and injuries stole another. Hell, LeBron should've gotten the Finals MVP instead of Iggy.
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Post by El Gunner Wed May 19, 2021 11:41 am

i'm not falling for any of your selective stats Freeza
i know what i know
the majority consensus knows what they know instead of hipsters... you don't have to take my word for it, history will speak for itself... just watch how Steph ends up on Mt. Rushmore over time
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Post by El Gunner Wed May 19, 2021 11:44 am

which statement is truer:
"KD would have no rings without Steph"
"Steph would have no rings without KD"

If KD never came we could have easily moved Barnes and some other pieces around to get more help, and still compete with and beat LeBron.
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Post by Freeza Wed May 19, 2021 12:01 pm

@El Gunner wrote:which statement is truer:
"KD would have no rings without Steph"
"Steph would have no rings without KD"

If KD never came we could have easily moved Barnes and some other pieces around to get more help, and still compete with and beat LeBron.


Well, KD would probably have a ring without Klay. In 2017.
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Post by Freeza Wed May 19, 2021 10:25 pm

MPJ really had the most efficient EFG% season since Wilt lol.

Everyone knew he was the most talented player that draft after Doncic and he still fell. Don’t care about his injury. He has to be dead for anyone to pass on him all the way down to 14.

Really needs to be the first option next year for nuggets. Could make them so lethal.
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Post by CBarca Thu May 20, 2021 3:31 am

Lakers look bad to start
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Post by CBarca Thu May 20, 2021 4:17 am

Wish this game wasn't on so late. Gotta hit the hay.

Lakers will probably still win or something but they look like they suck. Sorry to see it Freeeeeza
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Post by Warrior Thu May 20, 2021 4:18 am

Curry heating up and Lakers cannot buy a bucket to save their life

LeBron and Schroder ice cold. Davis neutralized by Draymond Green. It's not pretty to watch
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Post by Warrior Thu May 20, 2021 5:50 am

Great second half

LeBron and Davis make the decisive offense and defense action, respectively. Hopefully they keep up this pace. I ain't worried about GS they beat Memphis easily Thumbs up
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Post by Freeza Thu May 20, 2021 7:08 am

@CBarca wrote:Wish this game wasn't on so late. Gotta hit the hay.

Lakers will probably still win or something but they look like they suck. Sorry to see it Freeeeeza


Sorry to see it? Nah we’re good. Just a terrible time for us to get back. They’re not in rhythm yet because of those damn injuries.

Can’t wait for the series against Suns.
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Post by Freeza Thu May 20, 2021 7:10 am

Also refs really letting them play. How Draymond didn’t get called for a flagrant for two hands directly into LeBron’s face is wild Laughing
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Post by Art Morte Thu May 20, 2021 8:25 am

Watched the first half, a bit surprised to see the Lakers recovered to win, they were dogshit.
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