Can Bayern do it?

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Post by jibers on Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:38 am

Bayern have a unique chance to be able to win 6 trophies in a season and complete the first ever sextuple.

Manchester United did the quadruple after their CL win by winning the premier league, Carling Cup, Community Shield, FIFA world Cup in 08/09.
Barcelona did the non European Cup treble by winning treble La Liga, Spanish Super Cup, Fifa Club World Cup in 09/10.
Inter Milan by did a cup treble winning Copa Italia, Italian Super Cup, Fifa Club World Cup in 10/11
Barcelona did a cup quadruple after winning the Spanish Super Cup, Spanish Cup, Fifa Club World Cup and European Super Cup in 11/12.
Bayern Munich did the non European Quadruple by winning the Bundesliga, German Cup, UEFA Super Cup and FIFA Club World Cup.
Barcelona completed a non European quadruple by winning La Liga, Spanish Cup, UEFA Super Cup and Fifa Club World Cup.

The closest to win a Sextuple was Manchester United as they reached the FA Cup semi finals and Champions League finals.

Bayern have the unique chance of winning an unprecedented 6 trophies if they retain all their trophies and win the rest they would have European Cup, European Super Cup, German super Cup, German Cup, FIFA Club World Cup and Bundesliga. Can they do it?

This is probably the best chance a club will have as they can use 5 subs and teams are decimated at the moment and cannot strengthen.
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Post by El Gunner on Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:55 am

so they kept the 5 sub rule in Bundesliga only?
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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:03 pm

Disagree that the 5 sub rule benefits Bayern, it benefits everyone but them. The gap between a mid table teams and Bayern's 5th sub is lower than the gap between starters, so if Bayern actually uses 5 subs they will be on a more equal standing with their opponent.

Probably helps depth accross multiple competitions though.
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Post by rincon on Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:41 pm

I disagree. The 5 sub rule does benefit bigger teams like Bayern. "Super" teams basically have 2 sets of starting lineups. Small teams struggle to have 11 players that can compete, so their bench is usually a big drop off.

For example. Going from the reported lineup tomorrow for Juve. Our 5 subs can be Dybala, Morata, Douglas Costa, Arthur,  and Bentancur. This is massive compared to what midtable clubs can do, basically we have no drop off in quality after changing 5 players. Meanwhile even Atalanta or Lazio, CL teams in Italy, dont have that luxury. So we can have fresh legs without sacrificing quality and turn the tide of a match.
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Post by Hapless_Hans on Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:49 pm

We can, but we won't.

so, to be more precise: we can't until we will.
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Post by BarcaLearning on Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:00 pm

Lol is this Jibers being funny again? Very Happy Or is it accurate? Too lazy to check but didnt Barca in 2009 I think it was win 6 trophies? Basically all that could have been won? Dont know the definition, but saying Man U went the closet to it is trying too hard looool.
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Post by Myesyats on Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:03 pm

Yeah i thought Barca won the sextuple in 2009 hmm
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Post by futbol on Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:35 pm

Jibers comes in here with this nonsense every few years, it's a copy-paste post from 12-13.

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Post by jibers on Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:20 pm

@Myesyats wrote:Yeah i thought Barca won the sextuple in 2009 hmm


They didn't win a "Sextuple" but the Spanish media kept printing it to hype Pep's barca, understandably I might add. Sextuple is in one season just like every other -uple. They won 6 trophies in one year but that's a calendar year, not season.

Fifa Club World Cup, Euopean Super Cup and Spanish Super Cups fall under the 09/10 Season.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_football_teams_to_have_won_four_or_more_trophies_in_one_season

@El Gunner wrote:so they kept the 5 sub rule in Bundesliga only?

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:Disagree that the 5 sub rule benefits Bayern, it benefits everyone but them. The gap between a mid table teams and Bayern's 5th sub is lower than the gap between starters, so if Bayern actually uses 5 subs they will be on a more equal standing with their opponent.

Probably helps depth across multiple competitions though.


Sorry I wasn't clear. I meant the 5 subs benefited them compared to past Sextuple contestants. The main reason why the 5 subs benefits Bayern is that they simply can rotate players which in theory should minimise injuries. Add that to the fact that the Bundesliga only play 34 games and the other "Big" teams are in transition bar Liverpool really, Bayern have their best shot at this.

Also disagree, Their subs this season based on the CL Final will be Boateng, Hernandez and Tolisso. That's qualitatively better than most starters in Europe tbh. The only real weakness I see at the moment is the RB depth. I think they are trying to sign Dest. We'll have to wait and see.
@rincon wrote:I disagree. The 5 sub rule does benefit bigger teams like Bayern. "Super" teams basically have 2 sets of starting lineups. Small teams struggle to have 11 players that can compete, so their bench is usually a big drop off.

For example. Going from the reported lineup tomorrow for Juve. Our 5 subs can be Dybala, Morata, Douglas Costa, Arthur,  and Bentancur. This is massive compared to what midtable clubs can do, basically we have no drop off in quality after changing 5 players. Meanwhile even Atalanta or Lazio, CL teams in Italy, dont have that luxury. So we can have fresh legs without sacrificing quality and turn the tide of a match.


Exactly. I guess tha arguement against that is Some big teams have a drop in quality from their starting XI to the subs. I think the games being compressed now might actually equalise things.

As usual the PL always try to be different. They refused to do 5 subs then they'll start complaining that European teams have an advantage in the CL :facepalm:



@Hapless_Hans wrote:We can, but we won't.

so, to be more precise: we can't until we will.


I believe in Super Bayern Molenation

You guys need a RB and also maybe another CM/AM. All of it comes down to "luck". Everything fell into the right place last season.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:33 pm

@rincon wrote:I disagree. The 5 sub rule does benefit bigger teams like Bayern. "Super" teams basically have 2 sets of starting lineups. Small teams struggle to have 11 players that can compete, so their bench is usually a big drop off.

For example. Going from the reported lineup tomorrow for Juve. Our 5 subs can be Dybala, Morata, Douglas Costa, Arthur,  and Bentancur. This is massive compared to what midtable clubs can do, basically we have no drop off in quality after changing 5 players. Meanwhile even Atalanta or Lazio, CL teams in Italy, dont have that luxury. So we can have fresh legs without sacrificing quality and turn the tide of a match.
Perhaps in Bayern's case you're right. In other teams, though, even big ones like Barca or Liverpool the 5th sub is honestly not that special.
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Post by Casciavit on Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:08 pm

Bayern is on such a roll that I can't see them not winning the sextuple on a yearly basis. They still have the German super cup and Club World Cup but I expect them to win those.

As for the seasonal basis, well retaining the Bundesliga should be a given, and the DFB Pokal should be well within their reach too. Retaining the CL is the big question mark. I feel they lack a bit of depth to do so and as good as Kimmich is, Thiago brought that extra sauce against deep blocks. You never how injuries might impact them too. I don't think it's likely tbh.
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Post by Warrior on Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:23 pm

Would be fun if Bayern wins 5/6 losing only the german supercup
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Post by Hapless_Hans on Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:57 pm

@Casciavit wrote:Retaining the CL is the big question mark. I feel they lack a bit of depth to do so and as good as Kimmich is, Thiago brought that extra sauce against deep blocks. You never how injuries might impact them too. I don't think it's likely tbh.


This.
Basically, we still lack individual quality to be declared clear favourites. I maintain that Gnabry/Coman, while performing admirably, don't have the individual quality that some attackers of other elite teams have.
I'd see us maybe in the top 5 of favourites, which isn't great odds. Sané is an addition, but he will have to reach the level to be a consistent contributor to our team first. Was injured for a year...
Apart from that, our team is weakened, and it doesn't look like we plan on getting anyone else in apart from Dest who might not happen

And yes, Thiago is a massive, massive loss - but not because of his impact against deep blocks (his direct attacking impact is rather negligible tbh), but because of his ability to keep the ball, maintain control, and advance it under heavy pressure. Kimmich just isn't that press resistant and not that quick-witted with the ball, and the Kimmich/Goretzka combo just doesn't offer quite that kind of quality in midfield possession and controlled buildup against aggressive opponents. We'll have to hoof it more and against opponents that are good in chellenges and second balls that will mean less control and dominance, less opportunity to push high and press from the front, which in turn puts our defense under the kind of pressure that is not their strong suit

@jibers wrote:All of it comes down to "luck". Everything fell into the right place last season.


In terms of luck, noone can beat Zidane's Real. That's why we are going for Karma.
We are now taking on a charity case every season, James, then Coutinho, now Götze (well it's not happening but for the sake of argument). The hope being that the karmic surplus could come close to rivaling Zidane's sheer, dumb, obscene amount of luck.

The Real referee favouritism can't be made up for though
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Post by The Demon of Carthage on Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:44 am

Well, sure we had our fair share of luck, but we also had Ronaldo in his prime. Zidane clearly contributed to the 3-peat, but if he didn't have Ronaldo, he wouldn't have won any of them.

Case in point, Real has failed to get past the round of 16 ever since Ronaldo left.
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Post by Hapless_Hans on Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:20 am

@rincon wrote:I disagree. The 5 sub rule does benefit bigger teams like Bayern. "Super" teams basically have 2 sets of starting lineups.

While that may be true in theory, specifically this current Bayern squad is actually very, almost criminally thin.
What is our second set of starting lineup? Have you tried to assemble it?

If our starting XI is
Neuer
Pavard Süle Alaba Phonzie
Goretzka Kimmich
Gnabry Müller Sané
Lewa

our second lineup would be
Nübel
? Boateng Nianzou Hernandez
Tolisso Cuisance
? ? Coman
?

The ?? then will have to be filled up with U19 or second team players Zirkzee, Musiala, Fein, Mai, Richards.

We've lost Coutinho, Perisic, Thiago, and will lose Martinez. Only added Sané, and midfield youngster Fein came back from loan.

We desperately have to add players tbh
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Post by Hapless_Hans on Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:26 am

@sportsczy might have an orgasm though reading the names in that second set
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Post by Harmonica on Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:56 am

First ever sextuple is Barcelona in 2009.
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