Re: The Lionel Messi Appreciation Thread & Fan Club IV

by Harmonica Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:07 am

futbol_bill wrote:How does Messi with 1 solo goal in ligue get included in Europe top attackers?

Because he's scored 6 goals from assists from midfield?

by futbol_bill Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:15 am

Harmonica wrote:
futbol_bill wrote:How does Messi with 1 solo goal in ligue get included in Europe top attackers?
Because he's scored 6 goals from assists from midfield?

?? Goal from assist ? Is that another stat you have invented?

by Doc Thu Dec 30, 2021 1:20 am

Not made up. 5 in the CL and one in the league.

The "from assists from midfield" line is just bad grammar.

by _LMG_10_ Thu Dec 30, 2021 5:52 am

farfan wrote:"Brutal competition" South America is where all the diving, playacting, and contact avoidance started.

If you play football you'd understand that diving and playacting are generally a direct result of the other team tackling a lot and being aggressive. It happens in amateur and professional football all the time. Ask the players on your local amateur team and they'll confirm this.

It's not an opinion that South American football is far more physical than any European league, it's a fact. Culturally they see the game differently. You can call it a "shitshow", which it is, but that does not mean it's not more physical than Europe.

Messi could've had his career ended on at least 2 occasions in those 7 games alone. Alluding to Ligue 1's "physicality" as a reason for Messi being seemingly below par is laughable at best.

by Arquitecto Thu Dec 30, 2021 1:19 pm

Soon we'll be making "hockey assists" for Messi to justify his play in PSG, missing from the fact that he has been bang average in Paris. No way, now how.

by FennecFox7 Thu Dec 30, 2021 2:16 pm

He’s old, it’s to be expected he’s not as good anymore. I do think he can move a LITTLE more tho, he’s just not fit to run 90 mins or he’s saving it for the WC

by farfan Thu Dec 30, 2021 3:57 pm

_LMG_10_ wrote:
farfan wrote:"Brutal competition" South America is where all the diving, playacting, and contact avoidance started.

It's not an opinion that South American football is far more physical than any European league, it's a fact. Culturally they see the game differently. You can call it a "shitshow", which it is, but that does not mean it's not more physical than Europe.

Not only it is not a fact, but it is a terrible opinion made by someone who has no idea what he's talking about Laughing

A simple look at the tactics employed by Ligue 1 teams coupled with the physical build of the players should give you an idea of which football is more physical. South American players and coaches will tell you the same thing. Just the other day Poccchetino said Ligue 1 was probably the most physical league in the world. The Brazilian players we signed at Lyon throughout the years have been damn near unanimous when it comes to identifying the biggest adjustment they had to make after moving to France: The physicality.

Messi could've had his career ended on at least 2 occasions in those 7 games alone. Alluding to Ligue 1's "physicality" as a reason for Messi being seemingly below par is laughable at best.

I never made this claim. hmm

but even if I did, your examples wouldn't constitute a strong counterargument. Getting roughhoused by Venezuelan and Bolivian butchers a couple of times a year doesn't necessarily mean you can handle the week in week out intensity of a physical league.

by Kebab Fri Dec 31, 2021 7:44 am

He is still figuring out what its like to play in another team, another city. Off the pitch things are very new and difficult for him. Because what i see that he is getting his goalscoring chances but somehow either he is unlucky or he misses it.

Beside scoring people talked about his dribbling and involvement. In ligue 1 you dont surround yourself with 5 players and dribble them. Its not a ligue to play in tight spaces. The best thing is to do there is run away from players, run away from challenges. There is reason why neymar is always injured.

Technical players should avoid ligue 1 at all cost and go to EPL, plenty of space to dribble and big spaces to make through balls. Messi certainly made a big mistake. See how he plays against City, Arsenal, United everytime he faces them. Its easy for him to play against EPL teams. and these are big epl teams, against average epl teams he would do even better

Anyways, in the last game Messi was improved, he was fresh and fast. He did 12 successful dribbles and created chances. I think he will adapt to this farmers ligue, if not this season, next season he will score as much as he did in barcelona

by Arquitecto Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:52 pm

farfan wrote:
_LMG_10_ wrote:
farfan wrote:"Brutal competition" South America is where all the diving, playacting, and contact avoidance started.

It's not an opinion that South American football is far more physical than any European league, it's a fact. Culturally they see the game differently. You can call it a "shitshow", which it is, but that does not mean it's not more physical than Europe.

Not only it is not a fact, but it is a terrible opinion made by someone who has no idea what he's talking about
A simple look at the tactics employed by Ligue 1 teams coupled with the physical build of the players should give you an idea of which football is more physical. South American players and coaches will tell you the same thing. Just the other day Poccchetino said Ligue 1 was probably the most physical league in the world. The Brazilian players we signed at Lyon throughout the years have been damn near unanimous when it comes to identifying the biggest adjustment they had to make after moving to France: The physicality.

Messi could've had his career ended on at least 2 occasions in those 7 games alone. Alluding to Ligue 1's "physicality" as a reason for Messi being seemingly below par is laughable at best.

I never made this claim. but even if I did, your examples wouldn't constitute a strong counterargument. Getting roughhoused by Venezuelan and Bolivian butchers a couple of times a year doesn't necessarily mean you can handle the week in week out intensity of a physical league.

South American football isnt physical per say its just wild and far more violent but then again Im being pedantic but mostly cause Football there is trash.

I think Ligue 1 being physical as claimed is a myth as its extremely tactical with just a lot of focus in strength and physicality in the back more so since teams tend to build up from the back.

Beyond that its quite fluid from my anecdotal experience.

The excuses made for Messi dont fit simply because a more slight and further targeted Mbappe is doing just fine skipping past players and not expecting to be protected.

Messi isnt just being bullied he just isnt looking good and is predicted well. The league's overall play has been improving since 2011.

by El Gunner Fri Dec 31, 2021 11:30 pm

dude Messi is 34 and Mbappe 23

by FennecFox7 Fri Dec 31, 2021 11:32 pm

Exactly. He’s aging. That’s the point we’re trying to make... yet the excuses come flying out for messi, when it’s a certain someone he gets absolutely destroyed with one bad performance

This completed dribble stat is so stupid. Holy shit. Stop bringing it up. I don’t think messi cares himself how many dribbles he’s completed.

by neuro11 Sat Jan 01, 2022 11:45 am

Exactly...he is 34. Out of his comfort zone. Thats the point. The league is poor as it was always and its physical level has nothing to do with messi not scoring.
I agree players like messi would care little about the dribble stat. Thats really a poor logic. messi would remain frustrated as long as he does not find his shotting boots.

by Harmonica Sat Jan 01, 2022 1:40 pm

FennecFox7 wrote:This completed dribble stat is so stupid. Holy shit. Stop bringing it up. I don’t think messi cares himself how many dribbles he’s completed.

Nothing stupid about it. It's the most important individual statistic in football, as it's pretty much only stat that advances the game that doesn't depend on the team dynamic. You can't score if you don't get the ball, and scoring is harder less space you are created by the team dynamic. However you can create your own space and scoring chance, by advancing the game, by dribbling the opposition. You know why Messi scores so much, being a playmaker? Because he can create his own scoring chances. Be it by using team dynamic like all strikers, using one two by a team mate like playmaker, or by dribbling players as sole individual.

by Harmonica Thu Jan 06, 2022 3:00 pm

by Harmonica Fri Jan 07, 2022 10:12 am

Most successful dribbles in World Cup since WC66- (per game, game)

110 Messi (5.8, 19)
105 Maradona (5.0, 21)
78 Jairzinho (4.9, 16)
61 Kempes (3.4, 18)
60 Hazard (5.5, 11)
56 Robben (3.7, 15)

Hazard getting the third spot this year. hmm

by Harmonica Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:45 pm

The Lionel Messi Appreciation Thread & Fan Club IV - Page 17 B40ubvF

Other teams have midfielders, PSG has attackers advancing the game. No wonder PSG needs Verratti to have any kind of flow.

by _LMG_10_ Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:25 pm

Harmonica wrote:

Is there a man of the match stat for all leagues including CL and cup tourneys? Would love to see that combined.

Player rating would be nice too - I think you posted that a while ago?

by Harmonica Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:30 pm

CL has similar MoM's, fairly sure Messi has most by far in there too. But they don't track stats in minor cups.

by Kebab Tue Jan 11, 2022 9:25 am

by FennecFox7 Wed Jan 12, 2022 12:28 am

Apparently CR might join PSG.. unlikely but I would want to see that Messi-CR partnership. One works without the ball very well, one works with the ball very well. On paper it would work great, but both players are quite old and it’s probably not what PSG need..

Still, who gives a shit, I want to see it as a footballing fan

by BarrileteCosmico Wed Jan 12, 2022 1:21 am

In the unlikely event that psg win the CL this year and no longer give a f next season i would love to see it happen

by Harmonica Sat Jan 22, 2022 11:55 am

According to Jamie Carragher, after he called Messi a poor signing on MNF, the man himself sent him a DM on Instagram calling him a donkey pic.twitter.com/6jrkfdawVL
— The Anfield Talk (@TheAnfieldTalk) January 21, 2022

by Clutch Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:29 pm

Makes me like messi a lot more tbh Laughing

by Harmonica Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:14 am

The Lionel Messi Appreciation Thread & Fan Club IV - Page 17 GrgahBs

The Lionel Messi Appreciation Thread & Fan Club IV - Page 17 LLrMND4

7th this season post. Laughing

by Myesyats Mon Feb 07, 2022 8:32 am

The classic, cool as you like, chip-over-the-keeper is back :wub:

by Kaladin Mon Feb 07, 2022 12:47 pm

Harmonica wrote:
According to Jamie Carragher, after he called Messi a poor signing on MNF, the man himself sent him a DM on Instagram calling him a donkey pic.twitter.com/6jrkfdawVL
— The Anfield Talk (@TheAnfieldTalk) January 21, 2022

This just reinforces the idea that he is a puppeteer from behind the scenes, it doesn't help that PSG has a cabal of players dictating who gets to start and who doesn't. Man, i still remember that fiasco of Neymar and Cavani fighting over a spot-kick and Dani Alves intervening and pushing him away and Cavani trying to shove him off.

Its even worse than Benfica's mini-Akatsuki within their squad, at least the most they do is coordinate ambiguous social media sneers.

Messi sending whatsapp missives to Poch seems more and more like reality. This is why you need diversity in an organization, you've got South-Americans from players to the coach to the sporting director.

The Paredes-Wijnaldum situation, and now Donnarumma being lambasted behind the scenes. For all the problems in their squad, they're still leading the race, i think they're in for a mini-exodus next summer.

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