UCL QF 2019/20 | Bayern Munich Vs Barcelona

I do not now know why people are talking about individual performances when talking about yesterday's match. Barca would have probably still lost but definitely not 8-2.
I saw a game where there was simply no proper plan, tactics to beat Bayern's press. The positioning of players when receiving defensive passes or during defence was completely clueless. On any other day this would have been 4-3 or 4-2 to Bayern. The coach simply did not have any idea what skillset players have and how to implement it on the football pitch.

1st goal - how easy was it play the pass to Perisic and acres of space behind the left back
2nd goal - out of nowhere Sergio Roberto looses the ball and Perisic is again has so much on left wing.
3rd goal - what kind of pressing or closing is that during the build up Thiago is so comfortably playing the ball in the attacking third from Barca's own half.

like this you can literally go on and on. Of course in some situations individual quality could have made it harder for Bayern create some chancess or quality of chances would have gone down. But no way a well coached team would have performed this horribly as Barca did.

_LMG_10_

The notion that a non-defending 10 is the root of all of Barça's problems is just silly.

alexjanosik wrote:

danyjr wrote:Imagine having the best player in history and getting mauled like this. You couldn't make this up

Feel sorry for Messi. Hope he leaves after this match. Even Newell's Old Boys would have played better than this.

Best player lol
He is not even the best of his generation. CR is without a shadow of a doubt the best of this generation. Something unthinkable a few years back.
And I hope he leaves. We would magically become infinitely better.

This is the dumbest post I've read all year

Casciavit wrote:Semedo had an all time bad CL performance.

Not surprised with the caricature. He thinks playing Sergi in midfield with Griezmann and 17 year old Fati starting on the wings wouldve made a positive difference. Awful poster.

Problem is people like you who have their head stuck so far up Messi's ass they cant get to the root of the problem.
You see us playing 90% of the game in our half, you see our players under pressure in our half, you see defenders and midfieldwers on the back foot 90% of the game inevitably making mistakes and think its the same players fault. Then you see the guy who when he gets the ball dribbles left and make the pass to an onrushing Alba (the one trick play has been completely cut out this season, neven worked against the big boys anyway) and think said player is the only one worth salvaging. You probably think we would have lost by double digits without said player. Thats what happens when your head is stuck up said player's ass.

Instead ask yourself why we dont play like all other teams do. The reason we get destroyed is we dont play a modern game. And there is one and only one reason we dont play the modern game. Guardiola with his version of Total football and Klopp with his gegen pressing and both with their very high line revolutionised modern football. Within a few years, all teams with just 1 exception followed suit. No surprises to guess why we cant do the same. But yeah blaming Semedo helps lol!!!!

I checked the reaction on Barcaforum (another place which had its head up Messi's ass) and they have finally seen the light. They Messi thread has a lot of people acknowledging him as the problem). But yeah by all means please continue.

I leave you with a quote from the great man himself.
"When you play a match, it is statistically proven that players actually have the ball 3 minutes on average … So, the most important thing is: what do you do during those 87 minutes when you do not have the ball. That is what determines wether you’re a good player or not."

I think we all owe alex an apology. He called this years ago. The likes of kebab called him a fake fan. Wonder where he is now

I dont know for how much longer Davies can carry this team. Barca had way more possession and should have won easily if not for Alphonso once again, single-handedly winning another game for the Bavarian pig farmers.

Also, how did Red Bull Leipzig go from the most hated team in football, to everyones little darling team?

Seriously though, you guys are by far the dumbest football forum on the internet, like not one of you has any idea about football, nor about life. It is no wonder we have this pandemic with idiots like you in society.

Honestly are all of you hysterical teenage asian girls?

I’m not gonna even touch heavily on the CR think, I think messi and CR are closer then people think. Can messi dribble better.. sure. Does messi have more magic.. yes you could say that.

But Ronaldo has the single two most important things that messi will never have; off the ball movement and winning mentality

FennecFox7 wrote:I think we all owe alex an apology. He called this years ago. The likes of kebab called him a fake fan. Wonder where he is now

Pretty much. People take criticising Messi as someone is criticising their mother. Messi is stuck with the days of xaviesta. Never achieved anything significant since they moved on. Same reason why Busquets had a sharp decline. Some of them still want to play the stone age cruyffian football when not even Pep plays that way.

Move Messi on to Serie A and everything should sort itself out.

FennecFox7 wrote:I’m not gonna even touch heavily on the CR think, I think messi and CR are closer then people think. Can messi dribble better.. sure. Does messi have more magic.. yes you could say that.

But Ronaldo has the single two most important things that messi will never have; off the ball movement and winning mentality

Look at the match against Lyon. At no point Ronaldo gave up. Tried it till the last minute. He has done this time and time again. 3-0 down to Atletico. who stepped up to drag his team to victory?

Messi gave up around the 10th minute. Uninspiring player who plays for himself and ronaldo gets labelled selfish

Ronaldo is the greatest of all time because he has never let his flaws overcome his mentality.

I actually defended Messi, my post history doesn’t lie.

But what people understand is there’s a minimum level of running and intensity to play at the top level. It’s a minimum requirement. Especially now where teams run like rabid dogs.

I get that you guys like Messi.. as a fan of football first, I like the guy too, but he is declining. His turnover numbers are horrendous and his fitness is just shameful. He just doesn’t run either.. if you don’t run then how are you supposed to play professional football?

@RG, I got roasted on this forum saying Ronaldo was more then a poacher and that he was a better winger then Pedro.. I remember all of it. Don’t even dare tell people he’s an actual footballer, it doesn’t fit their narrative

FennecFox7 wrote:But what people understand is there’s a minimum level of running and intensity to play at the top level. It’s a minimum requirement. Especially now where teams run like rabid dogs.

I get that you guys like Messi.. as a fan of football first, I like the guy too, but he is declining. His turnover numbers are horrendous and his fitness is just shameful.

Most agree with that but to think all our problems would magically disappear if Messi left is just delusional.

I would like to see what 40-year old Suarez and braindead Griezmann would achieve with Sergi Roberto behind them. Take away Messi and you're left with a worse team individually than Arsenal and a farmer-coach who would rather tend to his cattle.

Messi is a problem but only one of many and I don't think the biggest one. Give him Neymar up front, Thiago in behind, a WC coach and suddenly we're on top again. Fact.

Setien thinks putting more men in midfield guarantees more control but it's the opposite and also cuts off Messi up top. What is the little bastard supposed to do with 35 y/o Suarez and a bunch of cucks behind him?

The board is definitely another problem. If you were to persist with Messi you should play a 4-2-3-1 with him in the hole. Athleticism the highest priority everywhere around him. You guys could’ve bought an athletic well rounded striker, two pacey wingers with an eye for goal, two B2B defensive midfielders, and a better deputy full back. Keep the defense the same.

But that 350m was spent stupidly. The dembele buy was the most sensible and even he was just way overpriced.

Selling Eto'o for Ibra + 70m was probably the start of the end.

Come to think of it.. Barca has been making bad decisions since Laporta left.. the ship started sinking wayyy beforehand.

What happened to la Masia too? The youth and the system aren’t nearly as invested as they used to be. I had a ton of respect for the way Barca raised their youngsters.

WTF happened?! I completely forgot about the CL games and the fact that they were returning in August. I took a little break from football and when I came back after just two weeks, Madrid lost to the bald fraud, Atlético lost to the guy who dresses badly and Barça got what can only be described as a total annihilation.

8-2? Fucking 8-2?!! Were there three red cards and Alba was the goalkeeper or something?

RealGunner wrote:

FennecFox7 wrote:I’m not gonna even touch heavily on the CR think, I think messi and CR are closer then people think. Can messi dribble better.. sure. Does messi have more magic.. yes you could say that.

But Ronaldo has the single two most important things that messi will never have; off the ball movement and winning mentality

Look at the match against Lyon. At no point Ronaldo gave up. Tried it till the last minute. He has done this time and time again. 3-0 down to Atletico. who stepped up to drag his team to victory?

Messi gave up around the 10th minute. Uninspiring player who plays for himself and ronaldo gets labelled selfish

Ronaldo is the greatest of all time because he has never let his flaws overcome his mentality.

this just sounds to me like anti-Messi propaganda.

Messi is a 5'7 extraterrestrial who has been peaking since the age of 19. He is not some super athlete who is going to drag a worthless, spineless aging team while he is aging too to win a CL.

for every Ronaldo big game CL moment, there is 10 other moments where Messi has awed us and left us speechless with what he can do with a football.

Let us also not forget how Ronaldo went missing in Classicos, Messi was the better player 90% of the time their teams went head to head.

And if you wanna compare titles won, Ronaldo also comes in second.

Ronaldo did not go missing in Classico’s lol.. he purged Barcelona more then once. Both have had good and bad games against each other.

Like I said before, Messi will awe you with his technique and skill.. because that’s his game.

Ronaldo deserves the same respect for equally important attributes, off the ball movement, aerial presence, excellent instincts, etc

@Hans

I no longer hate Bayern. Would forever be gratefully eternal for Kroos and this beating your team put down on Barca. Thank you.

Love,
Doc

Hapless_Hans wrote:and who was not playng?

Ousmane Dembele

@danyjr

Please respond

Doc wrote:

Hapless_Hans wrote:and who was not playng?

Ousmane Dembele

@danyjr

Please respond

Its just about 4 years since I began to see CR with far more interest than Messi.


His story is far more interesting, his character, his story within the games themselves. Not to add the fact that he is a tremendous leader for both club and country. Never have I see Messi pull teams the way Cristiano does.


RG is bang on above that is is pathetic how offended people get when he is criticised. Made a victim for a Barça despite the fact that he mostly walks head down when the team is down, stark contrast to CR. Made a victim for Argentina excusing the fact that he is nowhere near what he is for country compared to Barça. Technically speaking he is the all time best player but greatest is a different term and the greatest goes to CR and easily.


Trophies? He has 4 compared to Cristiano who has 5. In two different teams (and countries) and instrumental in all 5. Messi's 05-06 is a bare mention for obvious reasons given that stage for his career.


For country its not even close as Messi has been highly underwhelming for Argentina and won fuck all compared to CR who lead his team to an unexpected Euro win.


Key moments of dazzling us does not take away from how CR has been far more instrumental to his team in the greatest competition of all time in the UCL, at a higher stage and not just group stages and not having people like Xavi, Iniesta and CO. behind him.


Messi is the better player and as Giggity above said my post history speaks for itself pre 2016 but I really am not seeing him come through in key moments for Barça and its time to stop the hilarious spiel that he "deserves" more.


Alex is spot on the fact that he has been indirectly holding the team back and more so given he is nowhere near what he was at his best.


It wasn't hard deciding who I find more accomplished and just far more interesting to follow between the two.


Messi should leave Barça unless they convince him to stay via overhaul otherwise Inter or City can be an interesting destination for him. Do it in another team for once. Cristiano will always have that over him.

Looks like I'm going to have to take out the shovel for this one. sigh.

alexjanosik wrote:

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

alexjanosik wrote:It is not a coach issue. It is a player issue. Fix the player issue and you can play the modern game. All of a sudden you can compete. We dont even need a lot of signings.

What do you consider to be "a lot of signings"? I suppose we have ready made replacements for Messi and Busquets in Griezmann and DeJong, but surely we would still need some for Pique, Roberto, Suarez, Vidal, Rackitic, etc.

Compare our team to Bayern's. If you go man for man, there is not a sharp difference in quality. Certainly not 8-2 level. As I have been saying for the past so many years, we have a system issue caused by 1 player. Remove that player, get a good replacement and play the modern game. As in, front foot pressing, 11 players attack and 11 players defend.

As for line up,

Mats
Alba, Lenglet, Pique/Araujo, Semedo
Roberto, FDJ, Pjanic
Griez, New Signing, Fati

Puig and Vidal as backup. I really like Monchu. He can also be a good backup. Coutinho is also backup for midfield or starts depending on the opposition. Up top Fati left, Griez left and get a good striker in place of Messi. Dembele and Trincao as subs.

And relearn the Cruyff way of playing. Its going to be painful after the last few years of Messi. Its even going to look alien. But we will play much better football instead of the eyesore that we have witnessed past few years. And we wont get destroyed like we have 3 years in a row.

This team would essentially leave the defense the same (in spite of how many times it was exposed). The quality of the midfield is essentially the same. And I'm not sure who you think can fit into Messi's shoes but I'd suggest Griezmann is the best player we can get for it and instead we should be focusing on replacing Suarez.

I'd love to see Barca start playing a dynamic high-press game where eleven players attack and eleven players defend. However, I have a hard time seeing how this can be accomplished while leaving the core of the team essentially the same, even with a forward that presses up top unlike Messi. The team posted above would still get dominated by Bayern and is player-for-player inferior in almost every position. I think we need a more complete revamp.

I'd also say we had a disastrous tactical day btw, somehow we played 442 but our wide midfielders didn't cover for the fullbacks when they pushed forward at all. And in spite of playing a narrow 4 person midfield we conceded midfield control easily.

Babun wrote:Ter Stegen may be one of the best GKs in the world, Bayern players grew up playing vs German GKs

how are people in germany reaction to his game last night? Ive never seen him give the ball away so much

Ronaldo has 1/4th of the talent Messi has and using 100% of it.

Messi is using about 10% of his talent right now. If he was fit to run 90 minutes and pressed and took care of his body like Ronaldo did he would be the goat for the next 500 years

FennecFox7 wrote:Ronaldo has 1/4th of the talent Messi has and using 100% of it.

Messi is using about 10% of his talent right now. If he was fit to run 90 minutes and pressed and took care of his body like Ronaldo did he would be the goat for the next 500 years

Cant agree there Z. Yes CR is a Kobe bryant the way he works hard but truth is many don't want to admit talent does overcome hard work most of the time. You can't get to where he is without his absurd talent no matter how much you work.


Disagree with the physique part since he has been taking care of himself since Pep came in and looks quite fit, Fatessi memes aside.


Some people are naturally more athletic and have a higher VO2 capacity and you as an athlete know this.

Yes if he works harder he can be better given he coasts of the ball but the talent of Messi is higher but the disparity isn't as high as we thought.


That goal of CR v Juventus with his weaker foot (lets admit he is pretty much two footed) to the overall fact that he does possess many more traits in his game beyond LM, is overlooked.


Messi generally is supported more by Neutrals over CR and we know why since he isn't a threat to their identity. CR's hate represents more in people than they would think. Most of it frivolous.