Re: USA Gun Violence & Police Brutality Thread

[McLewis]

Americans will never allow themselves to be disarmed. And I'm not just talking about Conservatives and Republicans. That's everyone.

At this particular point in time, Black American gun ownership is actually rising. I have never shot a gun before. Never even held one. My brother thinks I'm crazy because I live near Detroit (one of the most violent cities in the country) and refuse to buy a gun. I have never thought more about owning one now than at any point in my life, what stops me has always been: What's the point? Police don't fear what could be in our hands, not what's actually in or not in them. It doesn't matter to them that so many of us have no intention of doing them any harm. That is what sticking to statistics and numbers will do without controlling for actual thoughts and emotions. They see us as purely statistics, as people who are likely to do them harm because the statistics fed to them and drilled into them tell them that's what we will do, even if our intentions are otherwise. And so they have this inherent fear/need to get ahead of the statistic by doing harm to us first if/when we interact. And the unions backing them will justify it. The politicians backing those unions will make sure that the laws on the books protect them and not us. They're killing us when we're unarmed so what difference does having a gun make? It just aids in the posthumous character assassination that the right-wing media are already beginning to do to Jacob Blake, citing his criminal record as a read he no longer deserve to walk again let alone breath again. They did the same with George Floyd, Ahmaud Arbery, Breonna Taylor, Eric Garner, and so many others. The cops cite the acknowledgement of a knife being at the scene of the crime as tacit proof that Blake intended them harm and so they shot him before he could act on any of it. This is thought policing. This is what we saw in Minority Report. It's not actual policing. Actual police work takes empathy. These cops had none for Jacob Blake.

Juxtapose that with what went down with Ryan Rittenhouse, a 17 year old boy who shot and killed 2 protesters. He's not from Kenosha and he travelled to these protests from out of state. He went looking for trouble and he found it. Pro-police crowds are decrying how he's been treated. 17 years old. You know who else was 17 years old, but they treated like he was 27 years old? Trayvon Martin, who is dead because he had the audacity to be young, black and not afraid to defend himself when threatened. If you want to truly understand why these protests are happening, just look at the pedestal right-wing media have put this boy on while tearing down Martin and Tamir Rice, who didn't even have a real gun when he was summarily killed by cops. What did cops do for Rittenhouse? Nothing. They left him alone until he killed 2 people and wounded 2 others.  Because he was white and not a perceived statistical threat to them.

The cop that shot Jacob Blake is NOT going to get charged with a crime. He will very likely get either this job back in Kenosha or he'll be able to get another one elsewhere. That's the power of a police union. No other union in this country has that type of power and it comes down to political symbiotic apparatus that exists behind it. The only way to break that power dynamic is by changing the political landscape at a local level, where the unions have significant power. It's a nigh on impossible task, particularly in the areas that need it most (suburbs of cities like Chicago, Atlanta, Minneapolis, etc). It's never been tried before though. It really should be.

That's how this works though. That's why protests are happening. And there's no end to it in sight.

[BarrileteCosmico]

I guarantee you that if Black ownership of guns wee 100% conservatives would sing a very different tune about gun reform. It's what happened in California after the black panther protests.

[McLewis]

Oh no doubt. It's how we have the gun control that we have now.

Its pretty much "2nd amendment form me, but not for thee" state of mind.

There's a reason the NRA never comes to the aid of black gun owners.

[CBarca]

Could the solution to passing effective gun legislation could be as simple as giving away guns to black people?

[BarrileteCosmico]

Yes

[CBarca]

I'll see if I can send some links later, but Kenosha PD has shown...exactly how NOT to respond to a "controversy" like this. Their racism is showing through every step of the way.

The only good thing I can see coming out of this is for people to see how racist MN, WI, MI, OH, PA and all of the other northern states (Midwest or otherwise) are. We're not much different than the south. We're just not as outspoken.

[Harmonica]

Kyle Rittenhouse case is interesting one. The second two shootings were self defense in my book, as he was running away from the mob. Not much to say about the first one without video. But this is yet another case against the gun laws in Murica, everything escalates too fast with guns. You can practically carry machine gun in public, antagonize people so you can lawfully shoot them in self defense. I expect this kind of stuff happening more frequently now.

As of now guns need to be banned in public, and qualified immunity has to be removed from cops. That will solve most problems.

[VivaStPauli]

He was running from the mob because the mob was trying to stop a shooter, that hardly makes it self defense.
I mean I get your point, and I agree, I'm just feeling nitpicky on that part.

[Harmonica]

He was running from the mob because the mob was trying to stop a shooter, that hardly makes it self defense.
I mean I get your point, and I agree, I'm just feeling nitpicky on that part.

It's self defense. Mob has right to try stop him yes, if they think he's dangerous. But he has also right to defend himself if he thinks the mob is dangerous for his life, which it was from the looks of it.

[LeVersacci]

Far right guy spraying mace/bear spray on a guy, same guy shoots and kill him.

WARNING GRAPHIC pic.twitter.com/TbILvCMQiY

— Towelie (@TowelieTrades) August 30, 2020

Murica

[LeVersacci]

BLM/Antifa vs right wing is inevitable at this point.

Black Lives Matter protesters and Antifa are cheering on the murder of a Trump supporter tonight in Portland.

"Our community held its own and took out the trash." pic.twitter.com/9rJjBlwL1s

— Ian Miles Cheong (@stillgray) August 30, 2020

[Myesyats]

I would imagine this is why Trump is gaining in the polls?

The bookies now have Biden only as a nominal favorite.

[Art Morte]

The more looting and vandalism there is, the better it is for Trump. I don't know can you even call them BLM protests any more, it's just looting and causing general mayhem now from what I've seen.

[McLewis]

BLM was the pretext. They are not allies to the movement. They are opportunists who are usurping the message. Right-wing media and Trump supporters are all too happy to lump in truly peaceful BLM protests and rallies with any violence occuring around them. Some are outright admitting that they see any protest as essentially a riot, which is a dangerous stance to take constitutionally.

This is the downside to BLM being de-centralized with no official, national organizational leadership. It's practically impossible to functionally untangle the movement/message from those who are using it to further anti-fascist goals.

[CBarca]

Agreed McLewis. I think there is a lot of power to a decentralized, "leaderful" (apparently this is the language people are using) movement. However, without strong leadership, you lack a coherent message and plan that can be echoed throughout the US, and the ability to truly condemn rioters and those who are trying to usurp the movement or otherwise do not advance the goals of the movement.

You see it with all the local chapters too. It's difficult. I really support BLM here in Madison, but then you see the apparent "leaders" here refuse to condemn the relatively few people who are causing a lot of damage through rioting, as well as some physical violence.

And again, I don't wanna be here telling people how to feel or what to do, and I strongly feel that the property damage, as unfortunate as it is, can't become the main story. People want that to be the focus, but businesses and property can be rebuilt. Still, the damage and violence aren't helping and by and large aren't representative of the BLM movement here...so why the trepidation in saying we don't want violence?

[CBarca]

I would imagine this is why Trump is gaining in the polls?

The bookies now have Biden only as a nominal favorite.

Trump's recent gains probably have more to do with the classic convention bump. It's difficult to parse out though as this just occurred.

BLM support is declining though.

[Hapless_Hans]

I don't know can you even call them BLM protests any more, it's just looting and causing general mayhem now from what I've seen.

absolute, complete, uninformed nonsense.

[Art Morte]

I don't know can you even call them BLM protests any more, it's just looting and causing general mayhem now from what I've seen.

absolute, complete, uninformed nonsense.

Inform me, then?

Like CB basically said: Peaceful BLM protests and opportunistic looting & rioting have become increasingly entangled. To me it looks like where ever there is a legit BLM protest, there is also looting and vandalism. The more this goes on, the more the neutral public's opinion will turn against the whole thing.

[CBarca]

That's not really what I said

In fact, one of my points was about how viral it is to separate peaceful BLM protests from the rioting and looting, and how important it is to not let the property damage distract from the important idea that policing has gone wrong and needs an adjustment (to say the least).

[Hapless_Hans]

I don't know can you even call them BLM protests any more, it's just looting and causing general mayhem now from what I've seen.

absolute, complete, uninformed nonsense.

Inform me, then?

You wish!!

But it's too late to come begging now.

[Myesyats]

I'm neither for or against, just saying don't be surprised if a lot of whites will turn away as protests get moreand more out of control. I mean, violence is violence whether it suits your agenda or not

I think it would help if BLM were actually a legit organization with a cohesive structure.

[Art Morte]

That's not really what I said

In fact, one of my points was about how viral it is to separate peaceful BLM protests from the rioting and looting, and how important it is to not let the property damage distract from the important idea that policing has gone wrong and needs an adjustment (to say the least).

Okay, so you spoke about how it's dangerous for protests and riots to become entangled into one; I think it's already by and large happened in most people's eyes. Right now the BLM movement is working in Trump's favour - which is more than a little ironic.

absolute, complete, uninformed nonsense.

Inform me, then?

You wish!!

But it's too late to come begging now.

Great answer.

[Myesyats]

https://fivethirtyeight.com/videos/do-you-buy-that-backlash-against-the-protests-helps-trump/

BLM protests approval in Wisconsin in June: 61%

in August: 48%

[elitedam]

Breonna Taylor's ex-boyfriend was offered a plea deal where he had to name her as an accomplice.

How low can these clowns go?

[McLewis]

A chilling reminder that Castle Doctrine, Stand Your Ground and other laws that are designed to protect legal gun owners protecting their property and families in their homes were not designed for black people. The NRA were front and center defending the 2nd amendment when white kids were murdering people in schools, movie theaters, and churches. They are absolute ghosts when a black man defend himself and his family in his own home legally.

And a reminder, Kentucky's Attorney General, responsible for seeing justice done in this case, is a black man. He is also a Republican who was mentored by none other than Mitch McConnell.

Breonna Taylor's family will not get justice for her murder. This much is clear.

[McLewis]

This happened before George Floyd and is only now getting traction:



For those that can't /won't watch this: Despite being in the middle of a mental health episode, Daniel Prude complied immediately with police. He didn't resist. He was naked and unarmed. This didn't save him. Police still pressed his face into the ground, with a knee on his back and suffocated him with a bag over his head. The excuse for the hood is that it is believed Prude ingested PCP (it's unknown if he did this knowingly) and other drugs that can cause spitting so the hood protects the cop from that. He died that night, but was kept on life support for 7 days before being taken off. The cops who did it still have their jobs.

There are 2 justice systems in this country.

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