Re: Benzema is proving everyone wrong

by Casciavit Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:00 pm

Benzema gets way too much disrespect on here.

by Myesyats Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:06 pm

Maybe because he's a sex offender rofl

by Luca Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:34 pm

Casciavit wrote:Benzema gets way too much disrespect on here.

It’s probably because the debate is so polarizing. It’s either he’s the best CF or he’s shit

When he wasn’t scoring goals and missing sitters he was the best overall player, contributes most to the team, plays a role etc.

Now he’s scoring goals as the primary goal scorer and he’s the best CF

We are seeing a similar trajectory with firmino now that he scored a couple goals

In this way, it’s like arguing with a brick wall. If he’s not scoring, he’s the best overall player. If he’s scoring goals, he’s the best overall player

Meanwhile, it’s pretty simple. He’s a great striker and among the best of his generation. Personally, I prefer to think of him as dmzema, the hero GL needed

It’s just the way we’ve become accustomed to debating. It’s either absolutely the best or absolutely the worst and this mentality always divides people

by futbol_bill Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:01 pm

Most of the polarization comes from one particular french poster! The only argument he hasn’t (yet) made, will be he’s the best because he is french!

by zigra Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:06 pm

Luca wrote:
Casciavit wrote:Benzema gets way too much disrespect on here.

It’s probably because the debate is so polarizing. It’s either he’s the best CF or he’s shit

When he wasn’t scoring goals and missing sitters he was the best overall player, contributes most to the team, plays a role etc.

Now he’s scoring goals as the primary goal scorer and he’s the best CF

We are seeing a similar trajectory with firmino now that he scored a couple goals

In this way, it’s like arguing with a brick wall. If he’s not scoring, he’s the best overall player. If he’s scoring goals, he’s the best overall player

Meanwhile, it’s pretty simple. He’s a great striker and among the best of his generation. Personally, I prefer to think of him as dmzema, the hero GL needed

It’s just the way we’ve become accustomed to debating. It’s either absolutely the best or absolutely the worst and this mentality always divides people

Disagree tbh. There have been quite a few posts about Benzema being a great striker but not as good as Kane, Ibra or Lewandowski. That's not "the best or shit", it's "the best or not the best but still very, very good".

futbol_bill wrote:Most of the polarization comes from one particular french poster! The only argument he hasn’t (yet) made, will be he’s the best because he is french!

Agreed. In general it's best not to take sports too serious.

by Arquitecto Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:28 pm

It Benzema's antics off field with the national team, his questionable fitness, attitude and his cringe lifestyle is what has many have the inability to also realise that he happens to be a world class and long proven striker for years and coming. What impresses me most if how he converts in big matches but more so his contribution outside of goals (to which most are in Europe no matter what his form).

The biggest blip on his career for me is that he has close to no contribution for the French national team and wont be remembered for them but for Real Madrid he has been outstanding.

And finally, that he is in the form he is at the age of 33, this is a man who's known to be more indulgent in his lifestyle than super health conscious men in the form of Zlatan, Kane and Lewandowski.

by Doc Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:56 pm

I mean, pretty cool to see we are still almost always in disagreement. Never a dull moment in here.

That being said, trying to figure out how Hala doesn't rate Kane but finds time to big up above average fullback Regi. Also, Benzema has been in form lately, not all season. It's like Modric's form recently. Don't let it fool you into thinking this is a consistent thing.

In any case, stand by said statement that Benzema should be considered in the best cf in the world talk but when I'm seeing Kane do what big ben does but better, only one real winner for me.

by futbol_bill Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:29 pm

This argument about who is best is so subjective. If one looks deeply, we can find fault in all of them and certainly there are dry spots for all of them.

But I think (or at least hope) that we can agree that Benzema, Levandowski, Kane and Ibra are among the best.

And we can say in Benzema, he has been underrated or appreciated for some time.

by Varnagel Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:40 am

Few days ago, Benzema earned 2019-20 LaLiga POTY-award.

And Benzema is still proving why he's still LaLiga's best player.

@Benzema is the winner of the Alfredo Di Stéfano @marca Award, for the best player in the 2019/20 @LaLiga season!
Félicitations! #RealMadrid
— Real Madrid C.F. (@realmadriden) December 21, 2020

by Hapless_Hans Sun Dec 27, 2020 7:42 pm

M99 wrote:
rincon wrote:Too early to be drunk. Kane is doing more, for a worse team, against stronger teams. Shouldn't be a controversial opinion. Also shouldn't be arguable that Lewandowski was absolutely the best CF this year.

Hilarious people still act like the its 2015 and Kane is a "one season wonder." He is doing everything you could possibly ask of a player and then some more this season. Recently been missing easy chances but that does not change that especially when Benzema also has a history of that.

And Lewandowski has excellent off the ball movement and link up play, so no scoring is not the only thing he is better at than Benzema.

Noone can accuse me of being biased towards Kane, being the proud creator of a couple of 'Kane is a one (two, three,..) season wonder' threads myself. But what Sports etc have been writing here has been so utterly and ridiculously clueless Laughing

Kane is running the attacks for Spurs these days, from start to finish. He does it all, his passing is spot on and his technique simple yet flawless, almost Mülleresque in these regards (although of course far worse in terms of movement and other aspects of playmaking).

Clutch wrote:There is not a single forward who has better link up play than Benzema. Take away goal scoring and Lewandowski and Kane wouldnt even be in the convo with Benzema in terms of link up play and creating

"Take away goal scoring and then..." when talking about a striker is really only a phrase Benzema fanboys could come up with lmao

sportsczy wrote:Kane does not do anything better for the Spurs other than the poaching part. Come on now. He's a top striker. But he is not in that top top echelon due to his less-than-elite technical skills. He's like Higuain basically.

sportsczy wrote:Kane a great playmaker... and then saying he's as good or better than Benzema at it. Just when I thought I heard it all on GL.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
Sports how do you manage to be so wrong

It's amazing, really. Sports does not know what he's talking about, in the most literal sense, yet he's so confident Laughing

Don't think he's seen a game of Spurs in probably a few years, surely not, but here he is proclaiming stuff Laughing

farfan wrote:@Clutch GL loves dramatic pearl-clutching reactions even when the original comment is fairly innocuous.

Kane slides a couple one meter passes to Son on fast counter-attacks and all of a sudden he's a better playmaker than Benzema.

Clueless post, is all that can be said about this.

Pardon, neutrally clueless post.

To be so wrong and then to top it off with the old wannabe blasé "GL does this or that" phrase lmao. Get your act together.

by FennecFox7 Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:06 am

I don’t see here what you’ve said that’s made any sense, all I see is a bunch of rambling. CF’s absolutely have to be good on the ball nowadays, is this even a debate? Poachers like mario Gomez are long dead.

We saw spurs on the big stage in the CL, Kane let them down. Is it fair to say since he wasn’t fully fit? Who knows, but he also let his team down today. If benzema had a game like the one Kane did today the pitchforks would be out.

You can’t demand one standard for Kane and then a higher standard for benzema and then say “Kane is better” when he lives up to that standard, and “benzema sucks”. Fact is benzema plays in the best European club of the past 10 years, and has been a consistent starter. He has carried us these past few years. He is basically triple marked every game and still shows his class. Kane isn’t half the player Benzema is.

Benzema is a better dribbler, passer, better technique and close control. His decision making is also on another level. Lewa is on benzemas level and I can see an argument saying he’s better then Benz, but Kane isn’t even better then aguero as of right now.

by Arquitecto Mon Dec 28, 2020 9:27 am

Im finding it curious on to what or how people are finding the basis of Kane being better than Benzema, if that is the debate. Benz past his prime scored more goals in the last 2 seasons than Kane in his prime. If we are speaking of other attributes its Benz every day despite Kane's notable improvements anyway.

by Harmonica Mon Dec 28, 2020 9:32 am

Varnagel wrote:Few days ago, Benzema earned 2019-20 LaLiga POTY-award.

And Benzema is still proving why he's still LaLiga's best player.

@Benzema is the winner of the Alfredo Di Stéfano @marca Award, for the best player in the 2019/20 @LaLiga season!
Félicitations! #RealMadrid
— Real Madrid C.F. (@realmadriden) December 21, 2020

Forget scoring, stealing awards he should be nowhere near at, is something he's apparently as good as Cronaldo. rofl

by Myesyats Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:25 pm

MARCA award as some sort of proof.... Blink twice if Chad locked y'all in his basement 9 feet underground

by Thimmy Mon Dec 28, 2020 7:01 pm

As usual, Benzema’s actual ability likely lies somewhere inbetween the opinions of his «haters» and hardcore fans. I can appreciate the good things he’s done and achieved, while at the same time recognize that he’s also been a letdown countless times throughout his career.

I don’t personally believe that CR ever held him back. It’s not like he’s been a reliable goalscorer in the post- CR era of Real Madrid, and his Achilles heel has always been his sporadic streaks of form and consistency, regardless of whether or not there were any goals involved. What speaks notably in his favor, are his longevity at Real Madrid, and his uncanny ability to provide decisive goals in the Champions League.

Before someone pulls out his context-excluding, goalscoring stats, how about we discuss the matter of no one being willing to rely on Benzema to provide our goals? I believe his longevity has also taught us that his streaks of form can start and end at any time, unlike the already mentioned, Lewandowski, who hasn’t always delivered in the big matches, but has a much more sustainable performance level, in general.

I’ve never doubted Benzema’s natural talent, but consistency is what seperates talented players from players who actually achieve something. Benzema has achieved a lot, and yet, as someone who’s been following him since he made his breakthrough at Lyon, I can’t help but think that he never quite lived up to the potential he had. These more recent streaks of form don’t change that.

Through all of these years of trigger happy praise, as well as bashing, he’s been the same, inconsistent, occasionally reliable, Benzema. Decorated, uniquely talented, and yet, devisive due to how differently people rate his consistency to talent ratio.

by Clutch Tue Dec 29, 2020 1:04 am

Hapless_Hans wrote:
Clutch wrote:There is not a single forward who has better link up play than Benzema. Take away goal scoring and Lewandowski and Kane wouldnt even be in the convo with Benzema in terms of link up play and creating

"Take away goal scoring and then..." when talking about a striker is really only a phrase Benzema fanboys could come up with lmao

Spoiler:

by futbol_bill Tue Dec 29, 2020 2:28 pm

Fanboys has to be the correct statement re these posts making Benz the best CF out there, but of course not counting goal scoring as one of the aspects to consider with such a designation. And the rebutted post above to Hans’ statement, is showing videos of Benz scoring a goal, which does does show he can score but doesn’t account for his inconsistency over the years plus ignores the various fanboys statements of not considering goal scoring as part of the normal requirements for a CF.

If another fanboy ‘Turok’ returned to GL, he would describe Benz the perfect ‘modern CF’ as opposed to the ‘traditional CF’. Based on past arguments on this subject, the definition of a ‘modern CF’ according to ‘Turok’ was a CF whose prime role was playmaking.

And if these fanboys used that terminology, maybe we could all agree that Benz may well be the best modern CF, while Levandowski and Kane are the bedt traditional CFs.

by Varnagel Tue Dec 29, 2020 3:58 pm

Thimmy wrote:As usual, Benzema’s actual ability likely lies somewhere inbetween the opinions of his «haters» and hardcore fans. I can appreciate the good things he’s done and achieved, while at the same time recognize that he’s also been a letdown countless times throughout his career.

I don’t personally believe that CR ever held him back. It’s not like he’s been a reliable goalscorer in the post- CR era of Real Madrid, and his Achilles heel has always been his sporadic streaks of form and consistency, regardless of whether or not there were any goals involved. What speaks notably in his favor, are his longevity at Real Madrid, and his uncanny ability to provide decisive goals in the Champions League.

Before someone pulls out his context-excluding, goalscoring stats, how about we discuss the matter of no one being willing to rely on Benzema to provide our goals? I believe his longevity has also taught us that his streaks of form can start and end at any time, unlike the already mentioned, Lewandowski, who hasn’t always delivered in the big matches, but has a much more sustainable performance level, in general.

I’ve never doubted Benzema’s natural talent, but consistency is what seperates talented players from players who actually achieve something. Benzema has achieved a lot, and yet, as someone who’s been following him since he made his breakthrough at Lyon, I can’t help but think that he never quite lived up to the potential he had. These more recent streaks of form don’t change that.

Through all of these years of trigger happy praise, as well as bashing, he’s been the same, inconsistent, occasionally reliable, Benzema. Decorated, uniquely talented, and yet, devisive due to how differently people rate his consistency to talent ratio.

How was Benzema a "let down countless of times" in his career"? Can you even back it up?

Since CR7's departure, Benzema has 61 goals from open play + 27 assists in 9439 minutes. Which is 0.89 G+A per 90 or averages a G+A every 107 minute. Those numbers are better than e.g. Cristiano's 54 goals from open play + 19 assists in 8909 minutes. Which translates 0.74 G+A per 90 or averages a G+A every 122 minute. I'm sure only Lewandowski and Messi have outperformed Benzema. I'm curious if anyone could make a statistical comparison of players with goals from open plays + assists in past 3 seasons.

I find it odd why you talk about Benzema's "inconsistency" without backing it up. He only had 1 bad season at Real Madrid, which happened in his debut season. Otherwise, Benzema has delivered solid to great numbers. It may have dipped between 2016-2018, but it's still not bad nonetheless.

https://i.imgur.com/XT2e34Z.jpg

Every forward has dry patches, it's not only unique to Benzema who still delivers anyway.

I do also think Benzema alone isn't enough for providing goals. But it says much more how awful Benzema's supporting cast up-front have been. Most teams have at least 2 or more reliable forwards who can delivers 20 G+A on a consistent basis. I wouldn't be surprised if Real Madrid's 2nd most productive player since 2018-19 season has been a centre back (Sergio Ramos). None of Real Madrid's forwards scored 5 goals in LaLiga outside Benzema last season.

It's just a testatmente of Benzema's greatness carrying Real Madrid's offense almost single-handedly despite having 2 Brazilian teenagers, a washed up Bale, injury prone Hazard etc.

Benzema has definitely lived to his potential and then some more. Especially when guys like Ben Arfa, Nasri and Jeremy Menez used to be regarded as far superior talents than him. If anything, Benzema is a massive overachiever while the rest had grossly disappointing careers.

by futbol_bill Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:50 pm

Have you conveniently missed the 2018/19 season when he scored a grand total of 12 goals in three competitions?

by FennecFox7 Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:32 pm

futbol_bill wrote:Fanboys has to be the correct statement re these posts making Benz the best CF out there, but of course not counting goal scoring as one of the aspects to consider with such a designation. And the rebutted post above to Hans’ statement, is showing videos of Benz scoring a goal, which does does show he can score but doesn’t account for his inconsistency over the years plus ignores the various fanboys statements of not considering goal scoring as part of the normal requirements for a CF.

If another fanboy ‘Turok’ returned to GL, he would describe Benz the perfect ‘modern CF’ as opposed to the ‘traditional CF’. Based on past arguments on this subject, the definition of a ‘modern CF’ according to ‘Turok’ was a CF whose prime role was playmaking.

And if these fanboys used that terminology, maybe we could all agree that Benz may well be the best modern CF, while Levandowski and Kane are the bedt traditional CFs.

Bill, you know I've literally spewed venom in the past against benzema. Sports and a few others did as well. We were calling for his head a few years ago. It seems that GL is stuck in 2016 still.

What changed? It's simple, his work ethic. He trains religiously now, he is literally ALWAYS in the gym and training. That's all he does even on vacation.

His performances the last few years have been nothing short of incredible. Carrying this sorry ass Madrid team to a La Liga is an accomplishment in and of itself. If he does it again this season I don't want to hear the word Kane mentioned with Benzema ever again.

Again, Lewa is the man and there's no question he is up there with Benzema. Kane is the one I have a problem with. Benzema is one of Madrid's all time top goalscorers AND assisters, and is the one of the UCL top scorers. Don't get me started on the eye test. Benzema is simply a better player if you want to use that metric.

I'm not a benzema fanboy.. I love Ronaldo and in the past I loved Iniesta even more (and still do, go ask dani or some of the old time barca guys here, they'll tell you). That's it. I stay impartial and give credit where credit is due.

by futbol_bill Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:12 pm

I not saying Benz is poor, quite the contrary. His recovery to form is well noted and admirable.

What I have an issue with is Sports and the fanboys saying he is the best CF out there, particularly if we exclude scoring which is a huge expectation of any CF.

I do acknowledge that at this point of time he is AMONGST the best, but I don't agree that he is the best nor would I give him that designation over his career. He has been too inconsistent.

I will agree with the heading of this thread that those of us who were calling for his exit from club that he has proven us wrong.

by Varnagel Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:41 pm

FennecFox7 wrote:
futbol_bill wrote:Fanboys has to be the correct statement re these posts making Benz the best CF out there, but of course not counting goal scoring as one of the aspects to consider with such a designation. And the rebutted post above to Hans’ statement, is showing videos of Benz scoring a goal, which does does show he can score but doesn’t account for his inconsistency over the years plus ignores the various fanboys statements of not considering goal scoring as part of the normal requirements for a CF.

If another fanboy ‘Turok’ returned to GL, he would describe Benz the perfect ‘modern CF’ as opposed to the ‘traditional CF’. Based on past arguments on this subject, the definition of a ‘modern CF’ according to ‘Turok’ was a CF whose prime role was playmaking.

And if these fanboys used that terminology, maybe we could all agree that Benz may well be the best modern CF, while Levandowski and Kane are the bedt traditional CFs.

Bill, you know I've literally spewed venom in the past against benzema. Sports and a few others did as well. We were calling for his head a few years ago. It seems that GL is stuck in 2016 still.

What changed? It's simple, his work ethic. He trains religiously now, he is literally ALWAYS in the gym and training. That's all he does even on vacation.

His performances the last few years have been nothing short of incredible. Carrying this sorry ass Madrid team to a La Liga is an accomplishment in and of itself. If he does it again this season I don't want to hear the word Kane mentioned with Benzema ever again.

Again, Lewa is the man and there's no question he is up there with Benzema. Kane is the one I have a problem with. Benzema is one of Madrid's all time top goalscorers AND assisters, and is the one of the UCL top scorers. Don't get me started on the eye test. Benzema is simply a better player if you want to use that metric.

I'm not a benzema fanboy.. I love Ronaldo and in the past I loved Iniesta even more (and still do, go ask dani or some of the old time barca guys here, they'll tell you). That's it. I stay impartial and give credit where credit is due.

Dude wtf? Benzema's work ethic and training was never in doubt for years at Real Madrid.

Maybe it was true during his first few seasons and Mou called him for it, but that's it.

And Harry Kane is definitely among the very best and delivers better stats than Benz since 18/19.

Karim Benzema:

- 61 goals from open play + 27 assists in 9439 minutes.
- 0.89 G+A per 90 or
- A goal or assist every 107 minute.

Harry Kane:

- 53 goals from open play + 21 assists in 8139 minutes
- 0.93 G+A per 90
- A goal or assist for every 97 minute

futbol_bill wrote:I not saying Benz is poor, quite the contrary. His recovery to form is well noted and admirable.

What I have an issue with is Sports and the fanboys saying he is the best CF out there, particularly if we exclude scoring which is a huge expectation of any CF.

I do acknowledge that at this point of time he is AMONGST the best, but I don't agree that he is the best nor would I give him that designation over his career. He has been too inconsistent.

I will agree with the heading of this thread that those of us who were calling for his exit from club that he has proven us wrong.

Benzema has been among the best forwards throughout most of his career.

To suggest anything else is blatant trolling.

And Benzema's "inconsistency" is just rubbish, I debunked that narrative in my previous post.

by Arquitecto Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:14 pm

Giggity's Benzema thoughts resonate mine. In general it was fun to pick on Benz even when he was doing rather well but truth is he never lived up to the expectations he had quite so due to his antics and his shortcomings on pitch.

Whats had me begin to defend him now is that he is doing it under Zidane (an average tactician), this old washed up squad along with the age of 33, and in the most vital moments.

To compare him with Kane is just disrespect given I repeat, Kane is dead in his prime and Benz is rather past and has been doing it for over a decade. Long way to go for the Spurs forward till he gets there.

by Chad31 Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:22 pm

@var I like your enthusiasm and the way you discuss the game of football, but let me tell you this no matter how many goals, assist, trophies and performances none of that matters, because at the end of the day the hatred for benzema has never been about that, you should've realized that by now.

The hatred for him is that from the day he signed for real madrid higuain days at the club were numbered, to make matters worse higuain went on to do next nothing of note since he left the club, while benzema won everything his fanboys said was impossible for him, so they claim it was solely thanks to cr efforts lol.

There is the cr fanboys that always tried to justify cr selfish glory hunting ways, as no choice cause benzema is horrible, when it obvious that cr need to statpad and be the only star in the attack was the real cause, why do you think there was a massive outrage over a benzema staying post cr, it was for this exact moment where benzema would play so well post cr, that it's impossible now to question his legacy as an individual player, something he has earned years ago and rm fans been on mission to strip it away from him.

no amount of shit posts gonna explain how can benzema can be considered the worst ever forward with cr for 10 years, then magically transform into the best player on the team, best player in the league and lead this madrid team to a league win, everyone knows what benzema problem was, it's the lack of support you never noticed that all of his haters never talk about the amount of service he gets, they just make shit and state it as fact just to avoid it, thus I stopped going back and forth its a waste time cause their just lying to push the same dead narrative to claim higuain is better when it's all said and done.

Good work with your research and facts, nice to see that someone else on this forum and bigsoccer actually appreciate the things this man has done for the club over the years.

by Chad31 Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:37 pm

Never forget that the first thread post cr was the discussion of benzema legacy, the amount of shits post in that were unbelievable funny enough, that thread suddenly died when benzema didn't fall flat on his face, and also if benzema had really failed to prove these guys wrong this threat would easily be about 15 pages long filled with nonstop hate lol.

Also that stupid narrative of coach saying benzema doesn't have to score, how dense do you have to be not to realize that comment like those are more about excusing cr selfishness and the way he control the entire offense, rafa challenged benzema to score like everyone wanted and benzema performed so well that cr had to complain about it lol, funny how these guys never bring that up ever cause it doesn't fit the narrative.

I don't even see what there to debate about, benzema has been the best player on the team since cr left that alone should be enough to know the truth.

If cr had any sense he could have won much more titles if he formed a proper partnership with benzema, in their prime years. instead but of shooting the team about of so many league titles and CL semi, so as I said a lot of cr goals are empty stats.

by Hapless_Hans Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:01 pm

I guess that's what the psychologists call formative trauma

I'd assume usually it's down to childhood abuse or negligence, violent experiences or such

but apparently having had to live through seeing your favourite football player in fierce competition with another player at a football club, more than decade ago, does the trick too, in rare cases

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