Brexit: Should the UK stay or go?

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:14 pm

nearly 2 million people have asked to revoke a50. doubt it will make a difference but worth noting nonetheless

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584

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Post by Hapless_Hans Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:03 pm

With a no deal brexit, will footballers from EU countries now have the same trouble getting a work permit as Brazilian teenagers etc?
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:24 pm

Wouldn't they theoretically all become illegals?
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:25 am

BarrileteCosmico wrote:nearly 2 million people have asked to revoke a50. doubt it will make a difference but worth noting nonetheless

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584

Nearly 3m now
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:34 am

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/21/mays-appeal-falls-flat-as-eu-seizes-control-of-brexit-date

In other news May has "managed" to secure a 2 week extension, after asking for 3 months

When leaders asked May what she was going to do if her deal was voted down, an official added that the prime minister replied that she was following her plan A of getting it through. It was then that the EU decided that “she didn’t have a plan so they needed to come up with one for her”, the source added.

With May out of the room, EU leaders delayed their plans to discuss relations with China and launched into a marathon late-night session in Brussels.

Taking back control... By having the EU take pity on you and coming up with a plan for you Proud
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Post by Unique Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:19 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/21/mays-appeal-falls-flat-as-eu-seizes-control-of-brexit-date

In other news May has "managed" to secure a 2 week extension, after asking for 3 months

When leaders asked May what she was going to do if her deal was voted down, an official added that the prime minister replied that she was following her plan A of getting it through. It was then that the EU decided that “she didn’t have a plan so they needed to come up with one for her”, the source added.

With May out of the room, EU leaders delayed their plans to discuss relations with China and launched into a marathon late-night session in Brussels.

Taking back control... By having the EU take pity on you and coming up with a plan for you Proud
with all these weak politicians in britain now is the time to strike hard and take back the falklands cheers
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Post by Nishankly Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:03 pm

So wait now we don't have an answer by 29th March as sent in the link by RG?
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Post by RealGunner Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:10 pm

About a million people marching in London atm

Brexit: Should the UK stay or go? - Page 18 D2WHc6eWsAAvXJe
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Post by Hapless_Hans Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:18 pm

RealGunner wrote:About a million people marching in London atm

Brexit: Should the UK stay or go? - Page 18 D2WHc6eWsAAvXJe


Great stuff. It's pretty amazing to get such a huge number of people actually marching in the streets.

Just came home from a anti-EU-copyright-law protest here which had about 20000 people and that was a lot already.
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Post by RealGunner Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:10 am

Ministers are planning to mutiny against May lol.

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:10 am

All alternatives seem just as bad if not worse tbf
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Post by CBarca Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:55 pm

Theresa May offers to step down to get the deal passed
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Post by Art Morte Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:01 pm

I think May has done a reasonably decent job in these circumstances where Parliament votes down each and every Brexit option. I don't think a change of leadership is going to make Brexit any easier within the Tory party.

I also don't quite see the logic as to why May's resignation would be the difference between MPs voting for or against her Brexit deal... If you were against this deal previously, why would a change of Prime Minister make you support the deal?
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Post by Hapless_Hans Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:05 pm

Art Morte wrote:
I also don't quite see the logic as to why May's resignation would be the difference between MPs voting for or against her Brexit deal... If you were against this deal previously, why would a change of Prime Minister make you support the deal?


The boys get to fantasize about being Prime Minister themselves
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Post by Hapless_Hans Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:07 pm

Hey! Another livestream from the House of COmmons on sueddeutsche.. Time to leer after some MILFs

wait.. is the debate over already? Only a couple of blokes left in the room
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:19 pm

Art Morte wrote:I think May has done a reasonably decent job in these circumstances where Parliament votes down each and every Brexit option. I don't think a change of leadership is going to make Brexit any easier within the Tory party.

I also don't quite see the logic as to why May's resignation would be the difference between MPs voting for or against her Brexit deal... If you were against this deal previously, why would a change of Prime Minister make you support the deal?

But if the indicative vite shows that there is something that parliament supports, why did Theresa insist on her deal or no deal? Better to delay for a year and re negotiate. I don't think it's fair to say she has done as well as could be hoped for. She has also refused to negotiate with anyone but party members when there are many labour Brexit MPs.
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Post by RealGunner Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:15 pm

May managed to win some Tory MPs after saying she will resign if they back her

then DUP came out saying they will reject May's deal and won't even abstain Laughing

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Post by Art Morte Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:58 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
Art Morte wrote:I think May has done a reasonably decent job in these circumstances where Parliament votes down each and every Brexit option. I don't think a change of leadership is going to make Brexit any easier within the Tory party.

I also don't quite see the logic as to why May's resignation would be the difference between MPs voting for or against her Brexit deal... If you were against this deal previously, why would a change of Prime Minister make you support the deal?

But if the indicative vite shows that there is something that parliament supports, why did Theresa insist on her deal or no deal? Better to delay for a year and re negotiate. I don't think it's fair to say she has done as well as could be hoped for. She has also refused to negotiate with anyone but party members when there are many labour Brexit MPs.

Well yeah, she has misjudged some things, most notably her own party's support for her deal and her negotiation tactics within the Tories. But I can't blame her for not trying to work with Labour; their only "official" Brexit policy (a lá Corbyn) has been to just vote down everything the Tories suggest and try to force an election. Talking to few rebel Labour MPs here and there wouldn't have helped and would have shown her in an incredibly weak and desperate light.

As for those "indicative votes", they have just all been rejected by the MPs - which is not surprising; the only thing the Parliament has indicated at any time of the Brexit process is, like I said, that they vote down each and every option.

RealGunner wrote:May managed to win some Tory MPs after saying she will resign if they back her

then DUP came out saying they will reject May's deal and won't even abstain Laughing


What a joke the government collaboration between the Tories and DUP has become. And the DUP got 1bn pounds for this lmao. That decision by May to call that snap election when one wasn't needed was just terrible and she's really paying the price now.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:28 pm

Art I think you are bring far too kind on her. Let's remember she:

Called for a general election that weakened her

Is pursuing a strategy of "I will not change my mind and will force you to choose between my bad deal and absolute disaster"

Antagonized EU leaders with terrible negotiating tactics

Refuses to allow a final ref even though many people have changed their mind, the country has voted a Gen election since, and she tried to present the same deal 3 times to the commons (so they can change their minds but regular people can't)

Has been unable to lead her party and has left it as divided as its ever been

She has been an incredibly weak PM and utterly incompetent. I am sympathetic that she chose to walk a soft Brexit line when everyone seems to want either a hard Brexit or no Brexit at all, but her inability to change strategies when her chosen path didn't work is really down to her.
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Post by Art Morte Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:23 pm

Maybe I am being too kind on her, but I just believe we (or the UK, rather) would be in this exact same situation even if someone else had been the PM.

The Irish border issue was always going to be very difficult with these red lines of the UK that they want out of the customs union and the single market. And the Irish border issue is the single biggest obstacle in getting any sort of deal over the line. I can't blame this on May.

The Tory party has been divided on the EU for ever. It would have been a miracle had she somehow united them over it.

As for a 2nd referendum, I don't think any Tory PM would be willing to call one. Most (hardline) Brexiteers are Tory voters and they would see a 2nd referendum as total betrayal. If a Tory government called a 2nd EU referendum it would likely lead to a lot of angry, lost voters for them. So I can't blame May for stubbornly trying to solve this issue in Parliament.

Overall the circumstances have been hugely challenging for May and I think we would be in this exact same situation with any Prime Minister.
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Post by Unique Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:52 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Art I think you are bring far too kind on her. Let's remember she:

Called for a general election that weakened her

Is pursuing a strategy of "I will not change my mind and will force you to choose between my bad deal and absolute disaster"

Antagonized EU leaders with terrible negotiating tactics

Refuses to allow a final ref even though many people have changed their mind, the country has voted a Gen election since, and she tried to present the same deal 3 times to the commons (so they can change their minds but regular people can't)

Has been unable to lead her party and has left it as divided as its ever been

She has been an incredibly weak PM and utterly incompetent. I am sympathetic that she chose to walk a soft Brexit line when everyone seems to want either a hard Brexit or no Brexit at all, but her inability to change strategies when her chosen path didn't work is really down to her.
we did have a final referendum and us leavers won.
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Post by Art Morte Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:32 pm

May's deal defeated for the third time. EU will have a meeting on 10 April about what to do, current default is no deal Brexit on 12 April. What would be really interesting is if the EU said "enough of this foolishness, either you leave with no deal on 12 April or cancel Brexit altogether." The likelier outcome, though, is that there will be a long delay on EU's terms.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:49 pm

Art Morte wrote:May's deal defeated for the third time. EU will have a meeting on 10 April about what to do, current default is no deal Brexit on 12 April. What would be really interesting is if the EU said "enough of this foolishness, either you leave with no deal on 12 April or cancel Brexit altogether." The likelier outcome, though, is that there will be a long delay on EU's terms.


Guess the EU negotiators know that if they were to say that, the outcome would be a no deal Brexit 100%.
It's already apparently impossibly hard for British politicians to entertain, or politically sell, the idea of having another referendum, disregarding the first one. Doing so at the command of, or 'blackmailed into' by, the EU would surely be even more impossible to enact, and would be even more divisive (if we accept the narrative that another referendum would be the divisive action, not the whole affair of the first referendum and how it came about)
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Post by Hapless_Hans Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:00 pm

Also, do I understand right that May is now staying Prime Minister BECAUSE her proposal lost again? Laughing
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Post by RealGunner Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:10 pm

So she got no backing from her own party. Now she is begging Corbyn to talk to her so she can get labour to vote for her deal lol

Think we'll find a breakthrough now
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Post by Art Morte Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:16 pm

RealGunner wrote:So she got no backing from her own party. Now she is begging Corbyn to talk to her so she can get labour to vote for her deal lol

Think we'll find a breakthrough now


Didn't she already "talk with Corbyn" recently when one of the votes failed? What's different now? And Corbyn is just going to say "customs union" and that's not a part of May's deal, so I don't see what's the point. Also don't see why the EU would be willing to grant more time when it is based on this nonsense.
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