GAME OF THRONES - PART 8 - *NO BOOK TALK - READ THE RULES*

I dont know. Let's see. In the first 4 seasons (which is rightly considered as the peak of the show), how many times has Jon met with narrow escapes?!

1. Stannis's party saving him from Mance and co.
2. Halfhand sacrificing his life to save Jon (which we can sort of put in this I guess)
3. One of Craster's wife-daughter saving Jon during the 1 on 1 battle with that GOAT brother of the NW who turned rogue
4. When climbing the wall
5. Escaping from the wildlings with a couple of arrow wounds from Ygritte

From S5 on wards.
1. Rebirth
2. Battle of Bastards, shitload of arrows flying around and everyone except him dying.
3. Again BoB, when the charging cavalry was going to take him down just in time to be saved by his own forces coming from behind
4. BoB when he was getting stampeded (albeit probably being the best set piece ever in the history of GoT, still Jon managed to escape in the end from the scuffle somehow)
5. Last episode during the battle with the zombies
6. Last episode while drowning that too with a couple of wights in his company.
7. Benjen ex machina
8. Lastly, the white walker fight during Hardhome. Likewise the stampede part during BoB this too was done brilliantly. So, no complaints eventho Jon still cheated death. (When the WW plunged the ice sword into the Thenn's heart, even when Jon's first sword broke to pieces, WW didnt just do same and only kicked him down).

Points 4 and 8 were executed almost flawlessly. So, can be taken off this list. Still we are talking about 6 in nearly 3 seasons compared to 5 in 4. I may have missed one or 2 here and there. But still I do pretty much believe, this isnt the same as it was before. And we arent talking about a Tyrion or a Davos who rarely goes into dying situations. Jon's been out in the wild and into such situations from the 1st season itself.

rincon wrote:
Ellaria and her daughter died. Yara got captured. Olenna died. Randyll and Dickon died. Thoros died.

Exactly. Point out a main character out of those you mentioned. Perhaps Thoros. But on one else. Heck they even killed off an entire bunch of side characters during s6 finale with the explosion of the sept of Baelor.

Benjen wasn't an Ex Machina imo. It has been set up through multiple seasons, mainly last season with Bran. If anything, it's more of a problem you should have with Bran being saved. Didn't find anything wrong with Jon being saved by Benjen since it had been set up.

Expecting it to be adressed that Bran sent Benjen out to help Jon, as Benjen stated in S6 that he worked for the Raven.

Glory wrote:

rincon wrote:
Ellaria and her daughter died. Yara got captured. Olenna died. Randyll and Dickon died. Thoros died.

Exactly. Point out a main character out of those you mentioned. Perhaps Thoros. But on one else. Heck they even killed off an entire bunch of side characters during s6 finale with the explosion of the sept of Baelor.

Yara was just as much of a main character as Oberyn though.

Ned is really the only main character to have died in the show at all. Unless you count Robb.

The mains have always been the three Lannisters, Dany, Jon and the Stark daughters, and then Bran if you reach a little, since he's been gone a lot.

They've all escaped death a lot through the seasons. It's pretty much in line with the "destiny" theme the series has built up.


I just think a lot of the complaints are premature before you've seen the last episode.

Yara hasnt died yet. Can see her dying soon tho.
She is slightly more important character than the Tyrells and Tarlys yes. But still I like to believe her as a side character to Theon who is the main protagonist from that arc. Euron is the villain, so naturally they 2 will survive for the final season.

Jon was a kid in season 1 and his conflict hadnt begun. Things escalate with the story.

Glory wrote:Yara hasnt died yet. Can see her dying soon tho.
She is slightly more important character than the Tyrells and Tarlys yes. But still I like to believe her as a side character to Theon who is the main protagonist from that arc. Euron is the villain, so naturally they 2 will survive for the final season.

Yeah, that's my mistake Don't know what I was thinking really.

My point still stands about no main characters having died at all since season 1.

rincon wrote:I wonder, if Jon burned himself alive and everything around him in the show to kill the NK in some sort of sacrificial situation. Then proceeded to walk out alive from the fire like its nothing. Would people complain that he is alive because of the happy ending and they just didn't want to kill him?

This happened in the books, and show, with fellow Targaryen Dany, and it was awesome.

Now it feels like the sort of thing that would get complaints from the show because of failing to kill a main character in impossible odds.

Some of the criticism, sure. Most? I don't think so. GRRM builds up to actions that make sense to the characters, something D&D has struggled with.

Don't get me wrong, I like GRRM's storytelling more. That's why I also read the books.

Its just not fair to equate it like that when he takes 7 years to write a book and HBO's crew has to do it in like 8 months or something.

The death stuff and the impossible odds he is just as guilty though.

In Dany's example we have no reason to believe she should survive the fire. He had told us about Targaryen's burning themselves to death before. It was so unexpected in the ASOIAF world that "the unburnt" became her epithet.

Yeah the quality of the show's writing going down is GRRM's fault more than anyone else. The showrunners signed up to adapt his story not write original content. Even the biggest pessimists did not expect that the show would finish before he released a single new book.

Think this season finale will feature Jaime killing Cersei.

The Mountain to win Clegane bowl - 1 week Avatar

It's been more than a week and I still don't get what the writers are trying to do with Arya... just what is her problem, does she think she is the only one who has suffered? Selfish bitch

The Winterfell arc is shit, I can't make sense of it. I would like to love it but I just don't.

Littlefinger still in Winterfell playing little games with some girls and a cripple while the whole realm is gathering at the Dragonpit to discuss dead people

Completely agree Urby, D&D just don't know how to make a coherent story. Carried by the source material, they're finishing up GoT to go work on this new crap show they been working on for a while. Sad that the show is in a worst state than what they started with. But its down to their errors, especially with budgeting. Just look at this video about how they discuss the CGI bear why did THEY have to include it? Bunch of morons

Video for reference

3:40 for reference

Would love to hear an explanation of what the random wildling at the back is hitting.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ImpossibleBowedAustraliancattledog-size_restricted.gif

rincon wrote:The death stuff and the impossible odds he is just as guilty though.

In Dany's example we have no reason to believe she should survive the fire. He had told us about Targaryen's burning themselves to death before. It was so unexpected in the ASOIAF world that "the unburnt" became her epithet.

Well the fire was a one time magical event where "life paid for life" with her unborn child, he has repeatedly said that she is not immune to fire (unlike in the show). It's not logical, as it is magic related, but there is a cost associated with it that makes it more believable in their world.

Yeah I am confused as to why she is completely immune to fire in the shows. Is it her Targaryen blood? Jon burnt his hand on the first season.

rincon wrote:Most of this criticism applies word by word to the books. They are full of Jon and Dany surviving ridiculous odds and have their share of hollywood-type last minute saving of them and other main characters.

"Royalty from Dragonstone rushes north, past Eastwatch, beyond the wall, to save Jon from unbelivable odds in the middle of an army in the last minute."

Is that Dany/Dragons in season 7 or is that Stannis in the books? literally the same situation.

The story is coming to an end they can't just kill off every named character out there like before. We need people to carry the story and its too late to introduce too many new ones. Even then, every conflict this season has led to casualties so I don't understand much of the fuss about that.

Ellaria and her daughter died. Yara got captured. Olenna died. Randyll and Dickon died. Thoros died.

The problem with the last episode is not so much the plot but how it was executed a.k.a the directing.

I'll give you an example.

When the Suicide Squad walked out into the wild at the end of episode 5, we saw two or three jobber wildlings behind them. Those jobbers didn't utter a single word and were ultimately only part of the squad just to die (from the ice bear and the wights). It felt empty seeing their deaths even though it was visually pleasing. Compare that to how Miguel Sapochnik directed Hardhome. He made sure to take the time to show some personal moments with the wildlings. Remember the wildling woman who was putting her daughter on the boat? We didn't necessarily have to be taken into that moment before the massacre began but Sapochnik made sure to do that just to give life/character/personality/importance to the wildlings and to show that these weren't just jobbers. They were people with families and lives and it made the massacre have a lot more sting and meaning. And then he made sure to show that same wildling woman rising up as a wight when the NK raised them all. He basically used one woman as the conduit for telling the story of the wildlings at that massacre. Brilliant directing.

Here, we don't know shit about those wildlings and we don't even care when they die and I think it took away from it and magnified the fact that only Thoros died among the SS.

The way a director handles a story can be the difference between a masterpiece and a controversial episode.

Sapochnik is GOAT in the show. I wish they brought him back for more episodes.

Compltely agree on that @Blue Barrett. Felt C-movie-ish to have some random no names be killed for fodder.

I really hope the final season gets back Miguel Sapochnik and Neil Marshall.

M99 wrote:Yeah I am confused as to why she is completely immune to fire in the shows. Is it her Targaryen blood? Jon burnt his hand on the first season.

Even Viserys died from that molten iron and they played it off that he wasn't "Dragon" enough.

M99 wrote:Compltely agree on that @Blue Barrett. Felt C-movie-ish to have some random no names be killed for fodder.

I really hope the final season gets back Miguel Sapochnik and Neil Marshall.

Felt more like a superhero movie tbh. Everyone dies in B and C movies

You all are too fussy "lets all complain about characters not dieing in a show that normally kills off loads of characters sometimes in bulk rather than be suprised something different happened and people actually lived(even tho Thoros and a freaking dragon died)".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_6j7RDaL6E

15:07 - 16:05
Even Youtube's supposedly best GoT analyst has understood there's problem with the show right now as regards to plot armour.

Blue Barrett wrote:


The way a director handles a story can be the difference between a masterpiece and a controversial episode.

Very true. The Hardhome and BoB episodes were equally bad in terms of logic. But what set them apart from this mess called beyond the wall was it was directed on screen almost flawlessly. Even the outright hard to believe sequences were executed with a level of conviction.
And that's why if you have great directors on board you can actually conceal the shortcomings if any in bad writing.