Re: Juventus Post Pogba... So what's next??

by Mr Nick09 Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:04 pm

It does not matter what the average joe can earn. Wanting to maximize your earning potential is only natural and pogba has the opportuniy to go from 6 to 15 net its a no brainer. He is going to earn more and thats it.

Loyaltt matters only as much as what you put in my bank account. You think Ronaldo or Messi would be in their clubs earning peanut wages for the love of the jersey? Nope. Their agent increase their wages every 2-3 years

CR loves Madris im sure but he also loves that we pay him some 19 mil net per seaaon

by Tomwin Lannister Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:07 pm

I'm not arguing against him taking the money. I'm arguing the point that he's doing it with some sort of beautiful family oriented end game in mind. The guy wants to go back to England, and improve his finances for himself. No need to dramatize it.

And until this transfer actually happens and we get some concrete reports i'm not commenting on exactly how much money he's getting extra. I highly doubt he's getting even double the salary nevermind in excess of 250%

by rincon Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:20 pm

Mr Nick09 wrote:Loyaltt matters only as much as what you put in my bank account.

Then thats your view, good thing not everyone thinks like that. Tons of players to pick examples from.

Bonucci would earn more at City without a doubt, did he move? No
Nainggolan would earn much more at Chelsea, did he move? No
Marchisio would have earned more any of the times he chose not to move.
Basically everyone that stayed at Juve through Serie B (Trezeguet, Nedved, Buffon, etc.)
Florenzi, De Rossi, Totti, etc.
Hamsik when he chose not to join us last year from Napoli.
and so on.

That's just from the clubs I'm more familiar with and in recent years.

by Mr Nick09 Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:32 pm

How many of those examples are the clubs saying we wont sell + giving a wage increase?

by rincon Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:40 pm

Doesn't really matter does it? whatever wage increase was not as big as the wages they could have gotten in richer clubs. But chose not to go for the money.

All those players have been at their clubs long enough to be able to get their move eventually if not allowed at first. Although, all three of those clubs (Juve, Roma, Napoli) have been ok to let go of those players for proper offers.

You know (I think you do) Juve's policy about letting players go that don't want to stay. So you can cross out all those, specially the players that stayed through Serie B. Buffon and co. 100% chose to stay at Juve and play in the second division on their own.

Roma needed the money by a deadlne this year (June 30th?) because of FFP, Nainggolan said he wasn't keen on leaving, Juve moved for Pjanic who was more than willing to. And so the Chelsea move fell apart since Roma no longer needed to force the sale of Nainggolan.

Hamsik didn't even get a wage increase or a new contract when he rejected us. He might now though but thats past.

The three Romans are famously in love with their club, Im sure you know that too.

Loyalty exists, its just rare.

by Mr Nick09 Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:48 pm

Yes it does matter, because you are keeping them but you are also paying them more money. It always comes down to money

by rincon Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:27 pm

If it always came down to money then they would choose the most money, which they did not. Simple as that.

Players are professionals, they do something well and they charge for it as they should, otherwise you are a slave. Charging doesn't meant hat there is no loyalty, it just means that they aren't dumb.

On the other hand, refusing a much bigger paycheck to stay at their club sometimes indicates loyalty.

Are you about to say that someone like Antonio DiNatale was not loyal to Udinese? A player that refused offers from clubs significantly richer, like Juve, to play at the friuli.

by S Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:35 pm

Mr Nick09 wrote:Yes it does matter, because you are keeping them but you are also paying them more money. It always comes down to money

Agree with this. Totti, De Rossi and the likes are being paid really well so they're ok with staying even if they arent winning anything. The moment a club cant afford to pay big wages, they'll be sold.

And its not quite fair comparing loyalty of local players and using it as an argument against foreign players. Foreign players will rarely have the same level of loyalty as local players even if they're paid well and play for the biggest teams.

by lucianomoggi Wed Jul 20, 2016 7:00 pm

What if those who are loyal are just because they expect a future perspective like coach, director or whatsoever role at the club

by juve_gigi Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:12 pm

The Demon of Carthage wrote:
S wrote:Super clubs doesnt let go off star players that easily. That said for us to become a super club, we need to win the CL or at least make another final. Without CL , no one would recognize you as one imo especially when you're playing in a much weaker Serie A these days.

I agree with you on pretty much everything except one little thing.

You may not be a "super club" yet, but you've shown with the Pogba sale that you have big club mentality.

A selling club sells their players regardless of whether or not they ask to leave. Juventus, however, held out even though the had received a mega-bid for him. It was only until he asked to leave that you decided to budge.

You're a club that protects its stars no matter how high clubs bid for them, and you only sell when they ask to leave. You have to respect that.

As for success, I think I don't need to remind you that Juve has been way more successful than United in recent years. You reached the CL final while United has been non-existent.

Pogba's move is purely money motivated, nothing else. If you had cash as much as United, he wouldn't leave.

So if there's one thing you need to blame your club for, it's not having as much cash as the European elites.

But if you ask me, it's a blessing in disguise: you don't want mercenaries wearing your beloved club's iconic shirt, you want players who wears it to bleed for it.

Thank you... :bow:

Pogba is a mercenary. He is dead to me. On to better things.

We sold Zidane who is a legend (Pogba may never even reach his level) and within two years of the Zidane sale we were one penalty kick away from Champions League glory and becoming the best team in Europe. We even sold Baggio in his prime when he was considered the best Italian player in the world at the time and having won the Ballon d'or two years prior.

by juve_gigi Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:22 pm

S wrote:
Mr Nick09 wrote:Yes it does matter, because you are keeping them but you are also paying them more money. It always comes down to money

Agree with this. Totti, De Rossi and the likes are being paid really well so they're ok with staying even if they arent winning anything. The moment a club cant afford to pay big wages, they'll be sold.

And its not quite fair comparing loyalty of local players and using it as an argument against foreign players. Foreign players will rarely have the same level of loyalty as local players even if they're paid well and play for the biggest teams.

Nedved and Trezeguet aren't Italian, they were foreigners. Yet they played in Serie B for a year even though they could have went to any club in the world...

by lucianomoggi Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:31 pm

I read that a price has been reached 110 million

by juve_gigi Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:51 pm

Real Madrid officially enter the race...

Juventus Post Pogba... So what's next?? - Page 4 Image57

by The Demon of Carthage Wed Jul 20, 2016 11:00 pm

"Officially"? Forgive my ignorance, but where did you get that?

by The Demon of Carthage Wed Jul 20, 2016 11:03 pm

and in case you were just being sarcastic, I apologize in advance.

by Warrior Wed Jul 20, 2016 11:11 pm

I was also confused, here is the only info i found:

http://www.footmercato.net/liga/le-real-madrid-pret-a-faire-capoter-le-transfert-de-pogba-a-manchester_182684

By your username i assume you must speak french, if i'm wrong then i'm sorry and here's a brief translation: bla-bla-bla, bla-bla-bla

Pogba to Utd is a done deal, many serious sources are calling that.

by The Demon of Carthage Wed Jul 20, 2016 11:19 pm

No, you're not wrong, it's my second language Smile

Thanks for the link btw. I too was only able to find reports linking Pogba to United, but nothing to Madrid.

It looks like Marotta is trying his very best to get as much as he possibly can from United by claiming Madrid has just entered the race.

by Warrior Wed Jul 20, 2016 11:25 pm

50% of Marotta being smart enough to keep everything low key in order to get the most money he can.

50% of hype from bs websites who have a suspicious title in order to get clicks, then display a poor article where nothing new is to be found Neutral

by juve_gigi Wed Jul 20, 2016 11:33 pm

The Demon of Carthage wrote:"Officially"? Forgive my ignorance, but where did you get that?

Gianluca Di Marzio:

Paul Pogba to Manchester United? Negotiations are in an advanced stage as the player gave his approval on the deal. Mino Raiola is currently negotiating with Manchester United. Real Madrid recently also contacted Juventus for Pogba but United remain the favorites. Real offered the player a 8-9 million euro salary but were not willing to go any higher. Real are making one last push for Pogba but will it be too late?

by The Demon of Carthage Thu Jul 21, 2016 12:00 am

Thanks for providing the source, gigi Smile

However, if I may, I'd like to clarify one thing:

The reason I got confused is because you attached the word "official" to your statement. When you use that word you automatically imply that it has been announced by either Real Madrid or Juventus in a formal manner (like with an official statement on their websites or something) or through their spokesperson or somebody holding an official and well-defined role in those organizations.

GDM, though reliable (more or less), doesn't have the right to use that word as long as it hasn't been officially announced by Real Madrid or Juventus.

Just wanted to clarify that to you Smile

by Mr Nick09 Thu Jul 21, 2016 2:28 am

juve_gigi wrote:
S wrote:
Mr Nick09 wrote:Yes it does matter, because you are keeping them but you are also paying them more money. It always comes down to money

Agree with this. Totti, De Rossi and the likes are being paid really well so they're ok with staying even if they arent winning anything. The moment a club cant afford to pay big wages, they'll be sold.

And its not quite fair comparing loyalty of local players and using it as an argument against foreign players. Foreign players will rarely have the same level of loyalty as local players even if they're paid well and play for the biggest teams.

Nedved and Trezeguet aren't Italian, they were foreigners. Yet they played in Serie B for a year even though they could have went to any club in the world...

you say that as if they were in their prime and big clubs were willing to pay top dollars for them. No they were washed up.

Anyway not saying you cant find exceptions but loyalty is proportional to the paycheck

by juve_gigi Thu Jul 21, 2016 2:52 am

Mr Nick09 wrote:
juve_gigi wrote:
S wrote:

Agree with this. Totti, De Rossi and the likes are being paid really well so they're ok with staying even if they arent winning anything. The moment a club cant afford to pay big wages, they'll be sold.

And its not quite fair comparing loyalty of local players and using it as an argument against foreign players. Foreign players will rarely have the same level of loyalty as local players even if they're paid well and play for the biggest teams.

Nedved and Trezeguet aren't Italian, they were foreigners. Yet they played in Serie B for a year even though they could have went to any club in the world...
you say that as if they were in their prime and big clubs were willing to pay top dollars for them. No they were washed up.

Anyway not saying you cant find exceptions but loyalty is proportional to the paycheck

I'll admit Nedved was on the decline for sure, but Trezeguet popped in 20 goals the year that Juve got back to Serie A and finished second in scoring. So he still had some juice left.

At the end of the day we all go to work for the paycheck, me and you included. But when you are in the millions of dollars it is alot different. It's not like Pogba would be suffering if he stayed at Juve. He was set for life no matter where he played.

Sometimes players take less to stay at a certain team, whether you call it loyalty or just that they are comfortable in the city or country, that happens in every sport. Some players don't give a sh*t and just go where the money is no matter what. I see that in all North American sports as well.

In my opinion, this whole Pogba to ManU transaction was all about the money, not just for Pogba but for fat cat Raiola as well. This was probably Raiola's biggest pay day ever, he's now set for life. He was probably not sleeping for weeks trying to get this deal done so he could get his money. And Pogba was a willing participant. This whole deal was orchestrated by Raiola. He wanted his money now and he's getting it. And Pogba is too.

You can't say that this is a great career move for Pogba, whatever any ManU fan wants to tell you. Not only is he going from CL to a Europa League club he's also going to be playing as a DM in a 4-2-3-1, something he's never done at club level. He's gonna play out of position and everyone knows that but don't want to admit it. They're all gonna tell you he's gonna have the freedom to roam the pitch and do what he wants, but that is exactly the opposite of how Mourinho's teams are set up. He likes to have structure and specialists at every position. He's the opposite of Allegri who likes to have players who can play 2-3 different positions.

Anyways, we"ll see what happens. For all we know Pogba could be a Galactico tomorrow...

by DeviAngel Thu Jul 21, 2016 3:07 am

The same reporters that said Juve will pay the 94M clause reported that Juve signed for Man Utd, Marotta again denied. If Pogba ends up staying here and extending I will laugh so hard. Even if we don't keep him Marotta (according to sky) wants 120 for Juve + money from some bonuses + cash when he signs new contract and Utd to pay the Raiola fee *boss*

by juve_gigi Thu Jul 21, 2016 3:23 am

DeviAngel wrote:The same reporters that said Juve will pay the 94M clause reported that Juve signed for Man Utd, Marotta again denied. If Pogba ends up staying here and extending I will laugh so hard. Even if we don't keep him Marotta (according to sky) wants 120 for Juve + money from some bonuses + cash when he signs new contract and Utd to pay the Raiola fee *boss*

Juventus Post Pogba... So what's next?? - Page 4 Image58

by Cotes Thu Jul 21, 2016 8:08 am

Sign Verrati and we good...

by S Thu Jul 21, 2016 8:10 am

juve_gigi wrote:
S wrote:
Mr Nick09 wrote:Yes it does matter, because you are keeping them but you are also paying them more money. It always comes down to money

Agree with this. Totti, De Rossi and the likes are being paid really well so they're ok with staying even if they arent winning anything. The moment a club cant afford to pay big wages, they'll be sold.

And its not quite fair comparing loyalty of local players and using it as an argument against foreign players. Foreign players will rarely have the same level of loyalty as local players even if they're paid well and play for the biggest teams.

Nedved and Trezeguet aren't Italian, they were foreigners. Yet they played in Serie B for a year even though they could have went to any club in the world...

Thats why i used the world 'rarely' ,gigi.

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