Juventus Post Pogba... So what's next??

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Post by juve_gigi Wed Jul 20, 2016 3:16 am

So now that he has asked to leave and its pretty much a done dealio, what's next?

Are we still a Super Club without Pogba?

Can we land a top world class striker to compensate for the loss?  Higuain, Icardi?

Do we actually need to replace Pogba or can we just use Pjanic or Marchisio in that role?

The next few weeks should be interesting to say the least. My thoughts are we definitely won't sell Bonucci now at any price. He is not a mercenary like Pogba, Ibra, etc. He's a true Italian and Juventino so we give him a raise with the new money we have and it's all good.

I think I like to have Pjanic as a regista controlling the middle of the pitch. Marchisio blew his ACL so he could be out till November or later. So in my opinion we should replace Pogba with another central midfielder.

And I think we will get a top CF with our new money. The options are limited but I think Marotta will work his magic. With Pjaca coming in and maybe Gabigol, we should be fine with the rest of the team.

So to summarize I think we need a Pogba replacement and a top CF and our team is complete. Will we be a Super Club?  Depends who we get. I think we still will be but only time will tell. Unfortunately this summer has turned into last summer. We will most likely see at least 8-9 new players this year after everything is said and done.

We WILL recover from this. We have lost top players before. The good news is we have $120 million or so in our pockets. At the end of the day that is a WORLD RECORD transfer fee. You can't really be upset about that, especially when you got that player for free.

Forza Juve!!!  Fino alla Fine!!  Dopo la mamma amo solo La Juve!!!

cheers
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Post by Luca Wed Jul 20, 2016 3:28 am

We are very much so still a super club

I'm also not sure if Pjanic-Marchisio-Khedira is any worse than Pogba-Marchisio-Khedira, it is certainly different but not necessarily worse- adding Dani Alves and a depth signing like Benatia and, when everyone is fit, our starting 11 is incredibly strong.

Marotta has said we will be signing a striker, whether Pjaca is counted among the forwards (I believe he should be, to me he's basically built to be a wide forward in a 4-3-3, off the left side as his preference).

I agree that a midfielder will be signed, with Khedira being injury prone and mainly because of Marchisio's injury as well (although I believe he is making great progress, I do not see a time table for his return but to my knowledge he has traveled to Australia with Juventus to train so if that's any indication, that's great that he is already training with the group). Marchisio's fitness actually doesn't worry me, he seems like one of those freaks that could return from an ACL injury without issue.

If I'm Marotta, I send that 100M to PSG and bring Verratti home Proud

Realistically, I believe someone like Matic from Chelsea, maybe even Oscar will be a target now that they've signed Kante and these are two names that are too familiar for Juventus.

As for other transfers we could still see departures in Zaza, Lemina, Pereyra, Hernanes, Sturaro- I would say at least one of these players leave.

Higuain is possible but I do not think that Pogba being sold will really change Marotta's stance, I don't think the issue was not having the 94M, I believe it was just the cost in general- it would be a reactive move at this point but we'll see what happens.

As for Icardi, I really do not believe Wanda that Juventus already offered 50M as Inter are reporting he isn't for sale but for an offer of 60M or more they would consider it. It is a very contradictory statement and it just doesn't really make sense to me on many levels, I believe he will be at Inter next season.

I'm thinking:

Mandzukic-Dybala
(Zaza-Pjaca)

Alex Sandro-Pjanic-Marchisio-Khedira-Dani Alves
(Evra-Asamoah-MATIC-Sturaro-Lichtsteiner)

Chiellini-Bonucci-Barzagli
(Rugani-Benatia)

Buffon
(Neto)

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Post by juve_gigi Wed Jul 20, 2016 3:53 am

Juventus Post Pogba... So what's next?? Marco-10

Come home Marco, come home...  :wub:
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Post by S Wed Jul 20, 2016 3:54 am

Super clubs doesnt let go off star players that easily. That said for us to become a super club, we need to win the CL or at least make another final. Without CL , no one would recognize you as one imo especially when you're playing in a much weaker Serie A these days.
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Post by Luca Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:01 am

S wrote:Super clubs doesnt let go off star players that easily. That said for us to become a super club, we need to win the CL or at least make another final. Without CL , no one would recognize you as one imo especially when you're playing in a much weaker Serie A these days.


I don't think a world record fee will count as "easily" S
Not to mention, there's a very strong history of transfers like this, which I will not bother to list because I know you know that too.

The CL is a fickle tournament, it's very dependent on the draw you receive. In a tournament like that, match ups are everything. With that being said, I agree and I believe Juventus is tooling up for it, even with Pogba's pending departure, we have a chance to do something special.

"No one would recognize you as one"- who are we talking about? The prem faces or la liga fans who do not watch serie a? Why should we care what they say? Look at the state of the top English clubs, widely accepted as the best league, with the most money but they have not done anything in Europe as of late but we still consider their top teams among the elite. I fail to see why AC Milan not being a powerhouse has anything to do with Juventus being a top club. Looking at the squad and what we've been accomplishing in the past 5 years- I'd say we are comfortably a top club in Europe.

The Champions League would just cement that status, but we certainly do not require the recognition of the ignorant- with all due respect, I believe you would have to be ignorant to look at this team and its experience and call it anything less than elite, or an elite group of ball kickers at the very least.

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Post by Tomwin Lannister Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:05 am

Get a World class #9 and i'm over it already


LCM is not a problem. Pjanic is more of a team player. Our midfield will tick along just fine. Shame we're losing some physicality but it's ok. If we do end up trying to replace Pogba just replace him with a DM allowing Pjanic -Marchisio/Khedira more freedom and making up for the loss of physicality with Pogba away.

Dybala - WC Striker or at least one with potential like that would be our best attack in years. Something any team in the CL will worry about.
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Post by S Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:08 am

Bayern, Barca and Madrid have been offered world record fees for their star players too. Bayern were offered an insane sum for Ribery in 2009(similar position they were in back then like we are  now) but they refused to sell even if Ribery asked to leave. That is ideally the stance i want to see Juve taking. Convince your best player of the project and make him stay for another year at least.

Letting go off your best asset doesnt make you a 'super club' in my opinion. 'Super club' is Bayern/Barca/Madrid category. We're an elite team but we're not as powerful as the other 3 mainly because of the economic reasons. We have to work harder to and consistently perform in Europe to get to that level. I hope we can be in agreement on this.


Last edited by S on Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:09 am; edited 2 times in total
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Post by Tomwin Lannister Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:10 am

If we sell any other top player we're not elite tier and we never will be under those circumstances.

This can be written off as cashing in on a player who's going for money that realistically should not be thrown around. After this, we need to toughen up on what is quite frankly a shit stance I.E "If a player asks to go, we will sell them"

Bullshit. We're running a football club and a business not a play group.
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Post by Luca Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:20 am

Juventus sold Zidane. We sold Ibrahimovic. We sold Cannavaro, Baggio.
We have coped with massive personalities leaving like Del Piero, Platini, Nedved.
I could keep listing but it's not worthwhile.

I'm not a fan of forcing anyone to stay or even trying to convince them of such, this is a matter of pride and teamwork- is one player bigger than the club? Never, Pogba, for all his talent does not have a place among the names I listed and I'm sure everyone must agree with that.

Gianni Agnelli, who made Juventus the force that we are built the club on certain values and traditions. Traditions still in play today, especially a winning tradition.

Pogba is a great player, he's no legend though. He's a world class midfielder, but he's no Zidane. He's an awesome talent, but he's not Baggio, he's not Scirea, he's not Rossi.

This is not a cause for panic or celebration, it simply is what it is. If Pogba has decided it is time to go, we will line our pockets and oblige his wishes and cope with it.

But I will never for a second say that his departure reflects poorly on Juventus, nor will I act like a big player leaving a club being some sort of new phenomenon. At the end of the day, he joined a club he already once left, for a world record fee, to compete in one competition, after joining us for free.

My only regret is that he was given the #10 shirt at Juventus. I'm not mad at Paul, I will always be a fan but we just have to accept certain realities as they are. This isn't a club or even a season defining move.

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Post by Warrior Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:26 am

I'm kind of happy this saga comes to an end after all.

Expected him to stay for a last season, only to give it a ultimate shot for the Champions League. To complete the circle, more or less...

Money talk$ and things will turn out the best while Marotta pulls the strings Smile
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Post by juve_gigi Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:26 am

Luca wrote:Juventus sold Zidane. We sold Ibrahimovic. We sold Cannavaro, Baggio.
We have coped with massive personalities leaving like Del Piero, Platini, Nedved.
I could keep listing but it's not worthwhile.

I'm not a fan of forcing anyone to stay or even trying to convince them of such, this is a matter of pride and teamwork- is one player bigger than the club? Never, Pogba, for all his talent does not have a place among the names I listed and I'm sure everyone must agree with that.

Gianni Agnelli, who made Juventus the force that we are built the club on certain values and traditions. Traditions still in play today, especially a winning tradition.

Pogba is a great player, he's no legend though. He's a world class midfielder, but he's no Zidane. He's an awesome talent, but he's not Baggio, he's not Scirea, he's not Rossi.

This is not a cause for panic or celebration, it simply is what it is. If Pogba has decided it is time to go, we will line our pockets and oblige his wishes and cope with it.

But I will never for a second say that his departure reflects poorly on Juventus, nor will I act like a big player leaving a club being some sort of new phenomenon. At the end of the day, he joined a club he already once left, for a world record fee, to compete in one competition, after joining us for free.

My only regret is that he was given the #10 shirt at Juventus. I'm not mad at Paul, I will always be a fan but we just have to accept certain realities as they are. This isn't a club or even a season defining move.


:bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:
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Post by S Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:29 am

Why do you take this as 'panicking' from my part ? I have already said i'm not that concerned he's leaving because we sit on a ton of cash now and hopefully we spend it on some real quality.

I just disagree with this whole 'super club' argument. We are very much a super club in Italy, yes. But in Europe, we need some more work to do. Bayern/Barca/Madrid consistently make the latter stages. That's what's earned them the 'super club' tag aside from the finances. If we consistently make the latter rounds in the coming years too, we'll eventually get that tag and appear far more marketable than we already are. I guess i have a different definition and i'll leave it at that because its an almost redundant argument which would lead to nowhere.

I have already moved on and waiting for the moves Juventus are going to make this summer. There's definitely every reason to be excited for Juventus supporters this season regardless of the departures.
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Post by juve_gigi Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:30 am

S wrote:Bayern, Barca and Madrid have been offered world record fees for their star players too. Bayern were offered an insane sum for Ribery in 2009(similar position they were in back then like we are  now) but they refused to sell even if Ribery asked to leave. That is ideally the stance i want to see Juve taking. Convince your best player of the project and make him stay for another year at least.

Letting go off your best asset doesnt make you a 'super club' in my opinion. 'Super club' is Bayern/Barca/Madrid category. We're an elite team but we're not as powerful as the other 3 mainly because of the economic reasons. We have to work harder to and consistently perform in Europe to get to that level. I hope we can be in agreement on this.


In all fairness Surag would Pogba have really left if he wasn't offered a tripling of his wages? I can't see him wanting to play in Europa League for the same pay as trying to win the Champions League.

If wages were not part of the discussion, if Pogba would be making the same wage at ManU as he is currently at Juve, I don't think he gets sold.  Juventus would have gladly kept him over the $120 million imo to chase Champions League glory...
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Post by Luca Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:36 am

Sorry S, that wasn't aimed specifically at you. And I agree that consistency in Europe is lacking.

And you're also right, the super club is a subjective thought. I mean if you want to count Juventus as in one tier lower than Barca, Bayern and Real Madrid, I would have no complaints about that but we also have to remember these judgments are based solely on Champions League performance and basically a CL power ranking rather than really looking at the quality of the team, in my mind the quality of Juventus right now is that of a super club.

I'm also eagerly awaiting the season and I believe we'll have much more to talk about before the season starts.

I consider my post to be that of anti-panic Proud

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Post by S Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:46 am

juve_gigi wrote:
S wrote:Bayern, Barca and Madrid have been offered world record fees for their star players too. Bayern were offered an insane sum for Ribery in 2009(similar position they were in back then like we are  now) but they refused to sell even if Ribery asked to leave. That is ideally the stance i want to see Juve taking. Convince your best player of the project and make him stay for another year at least.

Letting go off your best asset doesnt make you a 'super club' in my opinion. 'Super club' is Bayern/Barca/Madrid category. We're an elite team but we're not as powerful as the other 3 mainly because of the economic reasons. We have to work harder to and consistently perform in Europe to get to that level. I hope we can be in agreement on this.


In all fairness Surag would Pogba have really left if he wasn't offered a tripling of his wages?  I can't see him wanting to play in Europa League for the same pay as trying to win the Champions League.

If wages were not part of the discussion, if Pogba would be making the same wage at ManU as he is currently at Juve, I don't think he gets sold.  Juventus would have gladly kept him over the $120 million imo to chase Champions League glory...


I know you guys keep making the Zidane reference but he was a player we sold when he was 29...

And i agree, he's been offered a shit ton of money so he's leaving.. But i was speaking in general. I want to see this management be more ruthless when it comes to player departures. We sold Vidal because he asked to leave. Selling Pogba now for the same(although i completely agree with the management here because its a record fee). I am just wanting to say , we have players under contract here for several years and you dont let go off them so easily. Tomorrow it could very well be Dybala. I guess we might disagree but i want this board to adopt a ruthless stance here , now that we finally have the leverage, as we're a top team now.


When we were relegated, Camoranesi and Trezeguet asked to leave but we told them no. Just a simple 'ask to leave' shouldnt force us of selling our best players. No one in their right mind would be forcing out a move out of Juve either, thats how big our appeal is these days and how attractive we are as a team.
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Post by S Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:53 am

Anyways, i've moved on.

How do you want your team to look like this year ? Suggest names please.
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Post by juve_gigi Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:02 am

S wrote:
juve_gigi wrote:
S wrote:Bayern, Barca and Madrid have been offered world record fees for their star players too. Bayern were offered an insane sum for Ribery in 2009(similar position they were in back then like we are  now) but they refused to sell even if Ribery asked to leave. That is ideally the stance i want to see Juve taking. Convince your best player of the project and make him stay for another year at least.

Letting go off your best asset doesnt make you a 'super club' in my opinion. 'Super club' is Bayern/Barca/Madrid category. We're an elite team but we're not as powerful as the other 3 mainly because of the economic reasons. We have to work harder to and consistently perform in Europe to get to that level. I hope we can be in agreement on this.


In all fairness Surag would Pogba have really left if he wasn't offered a tripling of his wages?  I can't see him wanting to play in Europa League for the same pay as trying to win the Champions League.

If wages were not part of the discussion, if Pogba would be making the same wage at ManU as he is currently at Juve, I don't think he gets sold.  Juventus would have gladly kept him over the $120 million imo to chase Champions League glory...


I know you guys keep making the Zidane reference but he was a player we sold when he was 29...

And i agree, he's been offered a shit ton of money so he's leaving.. But i was speaking in general. I want to see this management be more ruthless when it comes to player departures. We sold Vidal because he asked to leave. Selling Pogba now for the same(although i completely agree with the management here because its a record fee). I am just wanting to say , we have players under contract here for several years and you dont let go off them so easily. Tomorrow it could very well be Dybala. I guess we might disagree but i want this board to adopt a ruthless stance here , now that we finally have the leverage, as we're a top team now.


When we were relegated, Camoranesi and Trezeguet asked to leave but we told them no. Just a simple 'ask to leave' shouldnt force us of selling our best players. No one in their right mind would be forcing out a move out of Juve either, thats how big our appeal is these days and how attractive we are as a team.


Yes, I do agree with that.  And bringing up Dybala just makes me cringe.  Think about if he scores 25 goals next year.  Will we get an $80 million offer for him?  If so will we sell?  What if Barca or Real offer him $10 million net wages?  Will he ask to leave?  Messi is his idol.

Unfortunately, times have changed.  Back in the 80"s and 90"s Serie A had the top players in the world.  Not anymore.  Now with the absolute insane wages being offered by these super clubs and Sheikh clubs, Italian clubs can't really compete.  We could never pay a player more than around $7-$8 million in net wages, and that player would have to be a Pogba or a Higuain in world class form.  There are subs and bench players at other teams in other countries getting $5-$6 million a year.  It's nuts.

The fact that we do have a super club, or quasi super club based on our current wage scale is almost ridiculous.  To have a team that can actually compete with Barca and Real with a Serie B budget is almost too unbelievable.  We have Marotta and Paratici to thank for that.  Getting top players on the cheap at bargain basement prices, sometimes free, over the last 5 years has really helped us to become an elite squad.  Unfortunately when those players become stars they wanna get paid.  

Anyways, let's see what Marotta has in store with his new found wealth.  Considering he's able to buy top end talent with a limited budget let's see what he does with $120 million.
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Post by juve_gigi Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:10 am

If Real purchase Andre Gomes we should go after Toni Kroos.  And then we chase after either Higuain or Icardi...

                       Buffon
           Barzagli   Bonucci   Chiellini
  Alves   Khedira   Pjanic   Kroos   Sandro
             Higuain/Icardi   Dybala

Bench:  Neto, Audero, Benatia, Rugani, Evra, Lichtsteiner, Marchisio, Asamoah, Sturaro, Lemina, Mandragora, Pjaca, Mandzukic, Gabigol

2016-2017 Champions League winners... cheers cheers
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Post by salmano9 Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:06 am

Im really pissed at Raiola.
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Post by rincon Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:23 am

Noting to be pissed about salmano. The man stands to make soooooo much money from this that it makes all the sense in the world that he is for it. He get like 25mill commission fee (which is insane) plus a cut of Pogba's massive earnings probably since he is his agent.

No hate on Pogba either, he is being offered so much money to return to the club where he started. ~13mill eur at 23 years old. He gave his best here and was super entertaining, I wish him the best of luck if he does go.

@S rejecting club offers for years, including Barca's offer last year and only letting him go after a world record fee is definitely not letting our player go "easily". If he wants the move and we stand to make an absurd amount of money then there is no shame in that. Remember that he came for free and is leaving 100+mill behind.
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Post by salmano9 Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:26 am

rincon wrote:Noting to be pissed about salmano. The man stands to make soooooo much money from this that it makes all the sense in the world that he is for it. He get like 25mill commission fee (which is insane) plus a cut of Pogba's massive earnings probably since he is his agent.

No hate on Pogba either, he is being offered so much money to return to the club where he started. ~13mill eur at 23 years old. He gave his best here and was super entertaining, I wish him the best of luck if he does go.

@S rejecting club offers for years, including Barca's offer last year and only letting him go after a world record fee is definitely not letting our player go "easily". If he wants the move and we stand to make an absurd amount of money then there is no shame in that. Remember that he came for free and is leaving 100+mill behind.

I don't see anyone who can take his place, unless it is Kroos or James a proven WC misfielder.
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Post by rincon Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:30 am

Me neither really, Im not for the sale. But it will be ok. The only player I would like to see replacing Pogba is Verratti, but that seems impossible.

I think we have to see as not a "Pogba replacement" in the LCM cause that always going to be a downgrade, but as getting a couple of players in their own roles that could make us better all around.

As an example, If Pogba's money turns into Pjanic(32mill), Benatia(21mill) and Icardi(60mill) then It would probably end up being a great move.
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Post by salmano9 Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:54 am

The problem is that we have a shortage in midfield and i dont want the situation to end like it had last year with Hernanes being the promised CAM.
If we sell Pogba, Pjanic is the only reliable CM we got.
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Post by rincon Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:05 am

Im almost sure that Pjanic will be our LCM this season.

Pjanic-Marchisio-Khedira

Asamoah-Lemina-Sturaro

+Mandragora

That's not so short. Still, we probably should bring another mid. James would be awesome, then we could switch to 4-3-1-2. Verratti needs to come home Smile

What about Bernardeschi? That would be sweet, the kid can basically play all positions except DM. IMO that could be the perfect rotation player for the mid, could rotate with Pjanic and Khedira plus the forward positions. His role in Fiore was mostly RM, but also player RW and LW. I'd take 25-30 mill to Fiore and bring him. I think Della Valle would negotiate with us for a price like that.
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Post by S Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:21 am

rincon wrote:As an example, If Pogba's money turns into Pjanic(32mill), Benatia(21mill) and Icardi(60mill) then It would probably end up being a great move.


I think the Higuain deal is happening....
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