how you rate messi's national career?

Goals - Chances Created - Dribbles - Tackles - WC14
4 - 23 - 46 - 9 - Messi

quarterfinals onwards
0 - 5 - 22 - 4

Mole is talking so far out of his arse it's unbelievable

Early 2000s Argentina was fantastic. They were Copa America runner ups in 2004 and 2007 while losing to the best team in the world at the time... Brazil.

They won the 2004 Olympic gold medal.

2003 Pan American champions.

2005 Confederations Cup runner up

QF in 1998 and 2006 WC. 2002 was a massive let down as they were good.

Compare all that with the NT under Messi and tell me he's made them better

zigra wrote:Goals - Chances Created - Dribbles - Tackles - WC14
4 - 23 - 46 - 9 - Messi

quarterfinals onwards
0 - 5 - 22 - 4

Yeah lets forget over half the tournament. Also the goal in QF came after Messi pressured the ball from opposition, held it enough and provided it to Di Maria. Was also the best outfield player in SF, completely outplaying Robben.

S wrote:I said i dint watch all of the group stage. I watched Spain's matches, Italy's matches but missed the Argentina games.

Robben was Holland's only threat against Mexico, Costa Rica and Argentina. Only player trying to cause problems for the opposition defense. He doesn't necessarily have to score or assist to consider that he had a great game. I would also argue that he played much better than Messi in the same semi game.

Pretty much this. He was a constant threat, always drawing fouls, creating chances, and generally was the best Dutch player on the pitch. To say he was dogshit is absolutely stupid.

Messi was an absolute livewire in 2010. Thought he was better in 2010 than in 2014. He dint score in that WC but his impact was huge.

7/10 rating from me. He was good but that's about it. His goal tally is really impressive if you just view it at face value and not get into technicalities. His performances in the international competitions have been mixed and it varies depending on who you ask. Nothing grand, nothing crappy and did more good than bad. Slightly.

Definitely doesn't give his greatest of all time (the crap his fans seems to wanna have everyone choke on) reasons any favours.

S wrote:Messi was an absolute livewire in 2010. Thought he was better in 2010 than in 2014. He dint score in that WC but his impact was huge.

I agree. I thought he was marvelous in 2010 but Maradona *bleep* it up

sportsczy wrote:Mole is talking so far out of his arse it's unbelievable

Early 2000s Argentina was fantastic.  They were Copa America runner ups in 2004 and 2007 while losing to the best team in the world at the time... Brazil.

They won the 2004 Olympic gold medal.

2003 Pan American champions.

2005 Confederations Cup runner up

QF in 1998 and 2006 WC.  2002 was a massive let down as they were good.

Compare all that with the NT under Messi and tell me he's made them better

You seriously trying to compare this to two Copa America finals and a WC final? you have no right to say i'm talking out of my arse with this nonsense.

Funny how you are hyping up quarter finals and semi finals but putting down losing finalists though, it's almost as if you doing that expectations bollocks thing again.

He's been the runners up 3 seperate teams and somehow success in completely irrelevant tournaments and not even getting to the semi finals is a more successful period.

Well done dumb dumb.

M99 wrote:

S wrote:I said i dint watch all of the group stage. I watched Spain's matches, Italy's matches but missed the Argentina games.

Robben was Holland's only threat against Mexico, Costa Rica and Argentina. Only player trying to cause problems for the opposition defense. He doesn't necessarily have to score or assist to consider that he had a great game. I would also argue that he played much better than Messi in the same semi game.

Pretty much this. He was a constant threat, always drawing fouls, creating chances, and generally was the best Dutch player on the pitch. To say he was dogshit is absolutely stupid.

Yeah..... no. Holland barely created anything full stop matter about just Robben.

I would love for you to go back and watch those games and you'd see how wrong you are.

Obviously you will never do that and live in your delusional world but oh well.

Calling him dogshit is probably closer to the truth than what you are trying to claim he was tbh.

Also more Surag changing history with Messi was a livewire in 2010 Practically everyone here lambasted him for being shit in 2010 and now he was a " livewire". Hell a lot of people said he didn't deserve to be top 3 balon d'or because of his WC performances ffs.

Can't wait for 2018 should he play in it tbh, we'll probably see posts about how we shit in 2018 in another losing finals effort and use his 2014 performance as a measuring stick as to why it was shit.

Like *bleep* clockwork.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:

sportsczy wrote:Mole is talking so far out of his arse it's unbelievable

Early 2000s Argentina was fantastic.  They were Copa America runner ups in 2004 and 2007 while losing to the best team in the world at the time... Brazil.

They won the 2004 Olympic gold medal.

2003 Pan American champions.

2005 Confederations Cup runner up

QF in 1998 and 2006 WC.  2002 was a massive let down as they were good.

Compare all that with the NT under Messi and tell me he's made them better

You seriously trying to compare this to two Copa America finals and a WC final? you have no right to say i'm talking out of my arse with this nonsense.

Funny how you are hyping up quarter finals and semi finals but putting down losing finalists though, it's almost as if you doing that expectations bollocks thing again.

They also made two Copa America finals in 2004 and 2007... and lost to the best team in the world at the time:  brazil.  Both times.  Not Chile

And yes... if you add up the rest of it, it does equal a WC final that you lose when you're the 3rd best player on your team for the competition and didn't do jack squat in the final.

He wasn't shit in 2010, he created most of Argentina's goals and had a great tournament. Del Bosque called him the best player of the World Cup. Unlucky not to score after a great Vincent Enyama performance and Tevez stealing his goal against Mexico. Against Germany he was quiet, but it was his only bad match.

Messi was part of the 2007 team.......

But i guess you didn't know that did you.

Like i said one copa america final compared to two copa america finals with him as the main guy compared to one before him and a WC final and apparently the former is better.

They obviously don't teach maths in France.

Messi was Top 3 in CA07 (MVP shortlist) with Robinho and Riquelme. Easily the best player of CA16, but they probably didn't want risking Messi not accepting it like he did with CA15 MVP.

Last couple pages are just people trying to attack every little thing about Messi's Argentina

I don't think him scoring against weaker opposition in tournaments is any fault you can say towards him. In a tournament, you play the team in front of you. The draw went how it did and he scored the goals he did. In the 2014 World Cup, I thought he was excellent, but I'm also a believer that the most valuable player should go to a player on the winning team, it makes no sense to be the MVP of a team that lost, and as Messi showed, he rejected the award (so why are we discussing it?).

Next, we are literally blaming one player for Argentina not winning. Does that mean he receives 100% of the credit for having Argentina reach the final? Only seems justified since he receives 100% of the blame when they lose- I think this alone shows you the pressure he faces, unlike any other player in the history of the game.

This Argentina tactically is like England in my opinion. I've never seen so many talented attacking players play so average as with this team- Higuain, Di Maria, Aguero... I'm not sure if the manager just cannot get the best out of these players, if they have no chemistry, if its both or what's going on but they play like shadows of their former selves. Messi is an exception, but at times also falls into this trap.

And regardless of what anyone will say, reaching that many finals is an achievement to be proud of. Coming so close and losing is the most painful thing in the sport. It's not like it's easy to progress in any of these tournaments. And lets look at the last 3 finals. 2 penalty shootout losses and a 1-0 loss deep into extra time. But lets blame Messi since he missed the go ahead penalty leaving the shootout score at 0-0 (erasing Vidal's miss), but literally doing nothing in the grand scheme of the shootout. You expect Vidal and Messi to both score, they were the first two shooters for that reason but they both missed- nothing was decided from here.

If Inzaghi was born offside, some were just born to hate.

He wasn't part of the team though

Confederations, Olympics and Pan America for anything else they wouldn't even be mentioned by while we a discrediting Messi's career for some reason lets scrape the *bleep* barrel with meaningless tournaments nobody ever mentions the rest of the time. (:

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:

M99 wrote:

S wrote:I said i dint watch all of the group stage. I watched Spain's matches, Italy's matches but missed the Argentina games.

Robben was Holland's only threat against Mexico, Costa Rica and Argentina. Only player trying to cause problems for the opposition defense. He doesn't necessarily have to score or assist to consider that he had a great game. I would also argue that he played much better than Messi in the same semi game.

Pretty much this. He was a constant threat, always drawing fouls, creating chances, and generally was the best Dutch player on the pitch. To say he was dogshit is absolutely stupid.

Yeah..... no. Holland barely created anything full stop matter about just Robben.

I would love for you to go back and watch those games and you'd see how wrong you are.

Obviously you will never do that and live in your delusional world but oh well.

Calling him dogshit is probably closer to the truth than what you are trying to claim he was tbh.

The only one delusional here is you.

Watch Holland barely create any chances.



Rewriting history just to big up Messi, like clockwork indeed.

Mole

You're telling that the Messi in 2007 that was 20 years old was a team leader?  He was about as relevant as R9 was in Copa America 1995.  Very young and talented...  but those teams were led by Riquelme and Crespo.  Those two were the superstars for Argentina.

Although R9 was part of the WC winning 1994 team and the runner up of Copa in 1995, nobody obviously mentions him as the man for those two.  He didn't become an elite player until 1997 and that's when his legacy started.

Scored goals though... both of them...  but as up and comers who were allowed to grow as the teams had other superstars to take the lead.  For Brazil, it was Romario and Bebeto.  For Argentina, it was Riquelme and Crespo.

I'm not bigging up Messi at all M99

I have already stated he didn't deserve to win the Golden Ball, but he was better than Robben was and if Robben deserves it then so does he.

To be clear neither of them did.

I dint call him shit in 2010. Individually he was probably the best player in the WC but Forlan, Villa, Sneijder and Xavi all had match winning performances. Reason why Messi was low in the pecking order in that tournament.

You're only seeing black or white. Im not even exaggerating calling him shit and stuff. For me he was better in 2010.

As for 2014, even if you discount Robben, there's Hames and Neuer who were arguably more influential for their respective teams than Messi. Based on this, i don't think he deserved the golden ball. It was like giving some sort of compensation for Messi for losing another final. (:

Never seen a place where 3 major finals are all decided by one goal combined and apparently all of them are discredited into nothing.

To the point where the Olympics ( which Messi has also won ) Confederations Cup and Pan America are all mentioned in the same breath like it's a similar achievement (:

Not to mention dat feel when a quarter final is praised and a final is discredited

GL

2 major finals. I'm still not sold on the authenticity of this Copa where Chile were gonna be the defending champions regardless. Also, Zidane made 2 UCL finals with Juventus and lost both. No one even brings it up as a kind of "hey, he made 2 UCL finals". Not even Sports.

I agree though, we should be giving Messi a lot more credit for contributing towards his team making a WC final and a Copa America final. Or at least a lot more credit than what is being shown. He still gets a 7/10 though.

Still don't know why people don't respect Chile, they have beaten every major team that has been put in front of them. Because they are not a historically great team doesn't mean they are not a great team now.

Yes Argentina should beat them but it's not like they are some scrubs, after all they did beat the Spain team you all love to praise so much and would beat most of Europe tbh.

Not sure what else they need to earn the respect they deserve.

A guy that has won 4 out 4 CL finals shouldnt be hyped for taking his team to the finals but failing at the last hurdle. Not like Argentina are some super scrub nation. One of the most decorated NT's in the world with 2 WC's and several Copa's. They have the pedigree of a big.international team.

Yeah but club football is different seeing as it's an every year thing, sure he's not lost in the final but he's lost in the quarters and semis plenty of times too which if anything is more disappointing and a bigger failure.

Especially considering they are two legged affairs so you get more than one chance. It's not like his club career is unblemished either.

Also let's be real here, how many top international players since the 70s have been to 3 finals? you have to consider that like you have to do with Guardiola's career so far tbh, people call him a fraud but outside of Ancelotti nobody has won the CL more than twice.

Same here, repeated international success ( whether you lose the final or not) is not something that happens often enough to be scoffed at.

sportsczy wrote:Mole

You're telling that the Messi in 2007 that was 20 years old was a team leader?  He was about as relevant as R9 was in Copa America 1995.  Very young and talented...  but those teams were led by Riquelme and Crespo.  Those two were the superstars for Argentina.

Although R9 was part of the WC winning 1994 team and the runner up of Copa in 1995, nobody obviously mentions him as the man for those two.  He didn't become an elite player until 1997 and that's when his legacy started.

Scored goals though... both of them...  but as up and comers who were allowed to grow as the teams had other superstars to take the lead.  For Brazil, it was Romario and Bebeto.  For Argentina, it was Riquelme and Crespo.

R9 didn't become elite until 1997 ? He was second in the B D'or rankings in 96 and won the FIFA World Player of the Year. He reached elite status in 94-95 when he moved to Europe