Thomas Müller - Top 3 striker in the world

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Post by VivaStPauli Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:09 pm

BTW all the while keeping in mind I don't think Müller is the #1 in the world.
I just think counting goals is probably not the best method to compare strikers to midfielders/wingers.

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Post by Harmonica Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:14 pm

VivaStPauli wrote:
Harmonica wrote:Goals Against Period Top 4

Note: Period top 4, finished positions in Argentinian, Brazilian, Dutch, French, German, English, Italian, Portuguese and Spanish national leagues)
Note: Pele's national competitions, Taca Brazil 59-66, Torneio Roberto Gomes Pedrosa 67-70, Brasileiro Serie A 71-74
Note: Includes cup and reagional league goals against period national league top 4
Note: Official games

103 Messi (04-16, 144 games, 0,72 gpg)
96 C.Ronaldo (02-16, 179 games, 0,54 gpg)
62 Pele (59-74, 103 games, 0,60 gpg)
59 G.Müller (65-79, 114 games, 0,52 gpg)
31 T.Müller (08-16, 81 games, 0,38 gpg)


Messi - focal point of the attack.
C. Ronaldo - focal point of the attack.
Pele - actual striker
G. Müller - actual striker
T. Müller - only midfielder in the list.
Messi focal point of the attack, he has been the main playmaker of Barcelona since 2010, Muller isn't. rofl


Last edited by Harmonica on Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Harmonica Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:15 pm

futbol wrote:I've always maintained Müller is a rich man's Pedro.
I concur. Sometimes people just mix up team performance, and truly carrying when team plays badly when talking about big team players.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:18 pm

Nowhere in hell is Muller a midfielder, he plays closer to Lewa than any other midfielder tbh. He's a second striker in every sense of the word right down to his strengths and weaknesses.
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Post by Harmonica Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:45 pm

Yeah, transfermarkt list Muller position on average SS, with couple AM's, CF's and RW's. Like Messi usually plays on whole switching those positions.
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Post by Doc Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:55 pm

Muller does not have the skill to be focal point of any attack hence why he isn't and he certainly isn't a midfielder.
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Post by futbol Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:55 pm

VivaStPauli wrote:
futbol wrote:He has a huge advantage. I can't think of any other player who plays in a system with a world class striker infront of him occupying centerbacks and 2 word class wingers on each of his side stretching the play. He basically has 3 world class players infront of him doing most of the playmaking, dribbling, passing, crossing etc. while he can pounce as a shadow striker.

Awwww come on that argument doesn't work. If anything, he has 3 world class people around him who don't like to share the ball and would rather finish themselves, than pass to Müller; so if anything he's at a disadvantage compared to players like Zlatan or Messi who get, like, all the service.

You play him on the wing or as the main striker and he won't be anywhere near as effective. I really can't think of any other player who plays in such a dream system. Ronaldo is probably the closest with Benzema and Bale doing the donkey work in the final third but even then that's only 2, not 3 like Müller who has Ribery, Robben (+ Costa, Coman) and Lewandowski.


Müller plays on the wing all the time. True, he cuts inside more since Pep came along, but still plays on the wing for Germany, and often enough drifts outside even with Bayern.
Not comparable to Benzema or Bale because those get to be the focal point of the attack, Müller is the only one mentioned who is an all-round team player who's probably not a striker.

Eh? For a goalscorer it must be the absolute dream scenario to be playing in a free-ish role behind Lewandowski who is marked by the 2 centerbacks with Ribery and Robben running down the wings, who are marked (and double marked) by the respective fullbacks on either side. "Raumdeuter" ("space interpreter") is a funny description. It's actually just another fancy and better sounding word for "poacher". It also doesn't quite tell who is responsible for creating the spaces for Müller. Now imagine Müller being the sole "focal point" upfront without Lewandowski and battling with 2 centerbacks or having to run at defenders from the wing. Whenever Löw played him like that for Germany and left Klose on the bench it looked like utter shit. Obviously Müller is still a good enough player to play at a very good level as an inside forward in a traditional 4-3-3 system like Pedro or Villa did for Pep's Barca for example but what I'm saying is that the current 4-2-3-1-ish system is an absolute dream for him. No one else has such a luxury right now in football.

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Post by silver Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:50 am

How does he play so well for Germany then? scratch
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Post by Kebab Wed Mar 23, 2016 8:16 am

silver wrote:How does he play so well for Germany then? scratch
just like pedro does for spain. They are great team and he has advantage of playing with bayern players in national team

We dont rate him high.because he cant dribble and cant pass and is slow. No more Inzaghis.today striker must have everything at top level. And i think Lewandowski has more than just scoring otherwise i dont put him in top 3 strikers list
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Post by Hapless_Hans Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:28 pm

futbol talking out of his arse as usual. Proud

His bowel movements are quite eloquent though.
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Post by El Messico Wed Mar 23, 2016 7:16 pm

Muller is one of the most overrated German players by Germans and Americans.

except for my man futbol who is too busy overrating Fraudrez instead Molenation

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Post by futbol Wed Mar 23, 2016 11:44 pm

El Messico wrote:Muller is one of the most overrated German players by Germans and Americans.

except for my man futbol who is too busy overrating Fraudrez instead Molenation


Agreed.

And reported.

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Post by El Messico Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:04 am

He's gonna be hyped after playing for Uruguay for the first time in 2 years.

I'd hedge my bets and bet on him scoring a hattrick in Clasico and/or getting himself suspended for a long time. hmm

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Post by Curtinho Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:42 pm

I actually agree that Muller is a bit overrated. He's a fantastic team player, but he's the type of player that if he weren't playing at Bayern or with the German NT I would expect to see a big dip in his productivity.

That's not to say that he's bad. But he's not on the same level as the top players in their impact on the whole game. He is a perfect complementary goal scorer, but honestly he is not as good as a lot of people make him out to be.

With that said it's not like every team should have superstars or supremely talented/impactful players either and that's why he fits in so well. He is very good at reading the game and the other little things that he does, and that couples so well with players that do a lot more with the ball or in other parts of the field.
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Post by Based Bonera Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:32 pm

Brb, lynching myself....
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Post by futbol Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:49 pm

futbol wrote:He has a huge advantage. I can't think of any other player who plays in a system with a world class striker infront of him occupying centerbacks and 2 word class wingers on each of his side stretching the play. He basically has 3 world class players infront of him doing most of the playmaking, dribbling, passing, crossing etc. while he can pounce as a shadow striker. You play him on the wing or as the main striker and he won't be anywhere near as effective. I really can't think of any other player who plays in such a dream system. Ronaldo is probably the closest with Benzema and Bale doing the donkey work in the final third but even then that's only 2, not 3 like Müller who has Ribery, Robben (+ Costa, Coman) and Lewandowski.



No Ribery, Robben, Lewandowski to do 95 % of the main work - no party. German Pedro. All he can do is work hard and pop up in positions for tap-ins which superior players are creating. "Top 3 striker". rofl

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Post by Sushi Master Fri Jul 08, 2016 12:08 am

Laughing

He ain't even a striker.

You description is pretty spot on, apart from him being bad on the wing. He's still very, very effective on the wing, as long as there's a decent enough center forward dragging defenders with him. He's a completely team-based player.

Your anti-Kommander, so to speak, even if they play more or less the same role.
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Post by sportsczy Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:22 am

Mueller just hit a patch of bad form at the wrong time... let's not forget he's been immense (and I mean all-time effective) in all of Germany's previous tournaments and even this Euro qualifying.

It happens. Doesn't mean you should throw away everything he's done.

Playing him as the sole striker was a doomed tactic anyhow. Selecting Podolski, who is useless now, came back to bite Low in the arse. People should be roasting Low, not Mueller.
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Post by Art Morte Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:46 pm

For the reputation Müller enjoys, people should absolutely be roasting him. Flopped, like, really bad at the Euros. I agree with Fußball's description, Müller is great when all he has to do is poaching, but as soon as that's not happening for him, nothing's happening for him.
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Post by Myesyats Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:53 pm

He's slow and predictable

often finds himself in the right place but the hype around him was never justified anyway

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Post by jibers Sat Jul 16, 2016 5:01 pm

Except Muller was never a striker. Again another daft criticism of a player. He scores goals when he has a CF in front of him that can pin down CBs so he can run off him and ghost into space. He needs people to create space for him and occupy defenders. He is a terrible CF/#9. How many times did Germany use an actual #9 in this Euros? He used Gotze as a false 9 for a few games and then I think Gomez started one game and when he did start Ozil and Muller where used as AMs/wide MFs. How do you expect him to replicate his club form?


Similar to Pogbas Euro criticism. Baffling stuff
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