Has Thomas Müller peaked already?

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Has Thomas Müller peaked already? Empty Has Thomas Müller peaked already?

Post by Forza Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:07 am

He's only 22 and he will go down in history as the Golden Boot winner in the 2010 World Cup, but is that it for Müller...?

Career Stats (chronological)

Breakout season...

2009/10 (All comps: UCL, Bund, Ger Cup)
Games: 46 + 6 subs
Goals: 19
Gms/gls = a goal every 2.74 games
Shots: 86
Shots on goal: 44
Sh/s.o.g = A shot on goal every 1.95 shots BEST
Assists: 10
Gms/as = an assist every 5.20 games

World Cup season...

2010/11 (All comps: WC, UCL, Bund, Ger Cup, Int)
Games: 51 + 4 subs
Goals: 24
Gms/gls = a goal every 2.29 games BEST
Shots: 97
Shots on goal: 45
Sh/s.o.g = A shot on goal every 2.16 shots
Assists: 19
Gms/as = an assist every 2.89 games BEST

This season...

2011/12 (All comps: UCL, Bund, Ger Cup, Int)
Games: 42 + 3 subs
Goals: 7
Gms/gls = a goal every 6.43 games WORST
Shots: 74
Shots on goal: 29
Sh/s.o.g = A shot on goal every 2.55 shots WORST
Assists: 7
Gms/as = an assist every 6.43 games WORST

Is this season just an isolated incident, or is it the beginning of a long-term form slump?
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Post by Sushi Master Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:12 am

He was doing great on the wing until Robben came back... and obviously you want Robben fit, so Müller was kind of sacrificed to the bench. Kroos is in great form, and is the perfect player to place in the "hole". Müller is not technical nor creative enough for this position, at least not in a possession based side such as Bayern. He has been very shitty in his finishing but is still a very important player for Bayern. If he had taken have the chances he's had, he wouldn't be considered to be in bad form.

This season's Lewandowski, if you will. Finishing wise, obviously.

As for peaking... how the hell do you peak at 22? If he were one of those 2 dimensional type players, maybe, but his footballing brain is amazing for his age. He'd make a great Klose-type if he works on his finishing. Maybe some day.

He's just having a meh season, not helped at all due to Heynckes wanking it to Robben. I felt Bayern was much more balanced with Müller playing, but I guess you can't leave a player like Robben benched.
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Post by Forza Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:28 am

So, you put it all down to:
1. Muller cannot co-exist with Robben
2. Rubbish finishing

These parts I don't get...
Sushi Master wrote:I felt Bayern was much more balanced with Müller playing, but I guess you can't leave a player like Robben benched.
Sushi Master wrote:He was doing great on the wing until Robben came back... and obviously you want Robben fit, so Müller was kind of sacrificed to the bench.
Considering the season isn't finished yet, Muller has still started a similar number of games as in the last 2 seasons.
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Post by The Messiah Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:29 am

Robben is one of our best and I doubt muller Will ever be as good as he his, regardless of whether Muler is in form or not, Robben starts ahead of him at all time.

Muller to be honest has been on a step to decline ever since Van Gaal left the club, he missed so many clear cut opportunity and just seems at time to disappear from the team, Muller must work hard again in training as this is his greatest assets,"hardworking" he's not lucky enough like Toni Kroos and David Alaba to have the technical ability that they possess.

Muller must not relax, he must work hard like he used to do before he got into the first team and most importantly he must finish off his chances when in front of goal, otherwise I'm afraid players like Kroos, Alaba and the expected Shaqiri and Lewandoski will come and take over his place.

I want the old Muller back, the one that scored that goal against Roma, Muller has not been working hard as much as he used to do under Van Gaal. Otherwise he can still improve his game, a lot.
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Post by dostoevsky Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:46 am

Time and time again he remains Germany's most influential player during internationals alongside Özil, he's simply the scapegoat in an unbalanced system which asks him to sacrifice playing a definitive role in order to help the likes of Robben and Ribery.

I understand though that what Forza is proposing isn't as extraordinary as it seems, even for supposedly technical players. Gourcuff, the one who had seemingly got away from Milan, effectively justified our decision even after he had two incredibly influential years at the top in France.

Müller will be back to his best and improving further when put under the tutelage of a better manager who allows Müller to play a role that suits him. The inability to bench Robben will curse Bayern if this continues, regardless of what he has proven in times past. Pato is without a doubt a more obviously potent second striker than Robinho and arguably Cassano, however he's rightly behind both of them in the pecking order for the sake of Milan. Bayern might be more spectacular with Robben on the wing, however that doesn't necessarily make for a stronger team than one which utilises Thomas to the right of Kroos in a more advanced position.
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Post by Sushi Master Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:57 am

Forza Rossoneri wrote:So, you put it all down to:
1. Muller cannot co-exist with Robben
2. Rubbish finishing
Nope. I stated that he's having a meh season. Overall he hasn't been at his peak. He had a similar dip last season which came from fatigue.

I'm just trying to reason why the dip in form. Rotating from the bench when he was in good form just to play Robben can't do much for his confidence. Another factor is Schweinsteiger, who has been missing most of the season. This leaves Kroos playing deeper, and Müller in the hole which as mentioned he doesn't do that well there due to lack of technique. He kind of clashes with Kroos, and they both don't play at their best.

He also had a very meh Rafinha or a limited Boateng supporting him for most of the season, which didn't do him any favors.

I will conceed he has had an average season, but one average season doesn't mean he's destined for mediocrity, unless we all agree Pedro is complete shit now.

Idro, Müller hasn't been bad, he's just been living in Kroos' shadow.
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Post by The Messiah Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:59 am

Lulz at this guyz, Robben has won us different matches with his left foot all by himself, Muller was in goal draught even when Robben was injured.

Mulled has been playing badly this season and it has got nothing to do with Robben, the Manager has been starting him all matches, I mean wtf, he has only come in as substitute 3time this season and started most games


Last edited by Idrisozet on Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by CBarca Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:03 am

A dip in form is a dip in form. A long dip in form at that, but players have bad seasons.

One does not simply just peak at 22.
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Post by Forza Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:25 am

CBarca wrote:A dip in form is a dip in form. A long dip in form at that, but players have bad seasons.

One does not simply just peak at 22.
\

Maybe he's doing a Torres?
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Post by Le Samourai Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:49 am

Needs to get out of Bayern, they are stifling his progress.

All this running play through Kroos, Schweinstiger, Robben and Ribery bullshit expecting him to be the support player who picks up the scraps will never work out.He is an intelligent player, good things will happen if you give him the ball consistently.

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Post by VivaStPauli Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:30 pm

In the current Bayern system, Müller creates space, not assists or goals.

What I'm meaning to say: he does a lot that benefits the team and can't be put in numbers. And I'm pretty sure you wouldn't need Robbens one wondergoal he occasionally scores if you just gave the ball to Müller more often who'd either get three assists out of it or score two by the time Robben scored one. -.-

Other than that, I whole-heartedly agree with Dostoevsky. Voice of reason, in times of kneejerkery.
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Post by Forza Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:02 pm

From the discussion, it looks like that whilst Muller has been playing badly, the current Bayern system is also at fault.

So, I put this question to you guys...

If Jupp Heynckes can see that Muller is being played out of position, why does he not swap Robben into the central role currently occupied by Muller?

It would not be any more of an experiment than what he is doing at the moment, which is obviously not utilising the team's setup to its full potential. I have no doubt that Robben would more easily adapt to playing in the centre than Muller. At Chelsea and sometimes at Madrid, Robben played as a CAM drifting wide rather than a winger drifting into the hole.

What do the FC Hollywood fans think of this idea?
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Post by The Messiah Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:11 pm

When Muller was playing on the right side he was still playing bad and now JH move him to the middle his prefer position, he has become even worst.

Robben or the coach has got nothing to do with Muller playing badly, Ribery helps a lot in defense even more than Muller does and yet he's one of our best player this season, Kroos has been thrown around and has played in different role this season and yet he's one of our best player this season, even the young David Alaba has easily adapted from LW, DM to leftback.

You can not justify muller's bad form on our playing system or Robben, Robben add much more to the team than Muller does.


Last edited by Idrisozet on Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by VivaStPauli Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:15 pm

It#s not his position on the pitch that is the problem, it's the role he's been assigned. Nowadays he is expected to feed Gomez and Robben with passes, maybe Ribéry too, which is all nice and shiny, but none of those three will primarily pass back to Müller so he can score, he's forced to be much less of a striker and much more of a creator, because Robben just doesn't give him much potential assists, so he's bound to get less time on the ball and hence less time to shine.
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Post by Zealous Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:21 pm

I'd look at the coaching change if you want an explanation why Muller isn't producing the same numbers as last season.
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Post by Albiceleste Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:26 pm

One meh season =/= peaked, wait until after next season to make conclusions imo.

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Post by Bellabong Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:19 pm

Forza Rossoneri wrote:From the discussion, it looks like that whilst Muller has been playing badly, the current Bayern system is also at fault.

So, I put this question to you guys...

If Jupp Heynckes can see that Muller is being played out of position, why does he not swap Robben into the central role currently occupied by Muller?

It would not be any more of an experiment than what he is doing at the moment, which is obviously not utilising the team's setup to its full potential. I have no doubt that Robben would more easily adapt to playing in the centre than Muller. At Chelsea and sometimes at Madrid, Robben played as a CAM drifting wide rather than a winger drifting into the hole.

What do the FC Hollywood fans think of this idea?

Anytime Robben hasn't played in a position where all he does is cut inside he has been an absolute beast. Started left a couple of games ago - was a beast as a normal winger. Started centrally during a couple of LvG games, and still beasted. I'm also puzzled why Heynckes hasn't at least tried Robben starting centrally while Schweini is injured and Kroos is CMing.

What I get from Heynckes is that he doesn't have the balls to try something entirely new apart from that one game where he started Robben left (but then subsequently switched him and the rest of the game was meh).

He won't play Usami simply because his physique. And yet Kagawa is beasting...
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Post by The Messiah Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:15 pm

When Gomez miss chances everyone call him names and blame him.

And Now Muller is playing badly everyone is blaming the coach, what else can he do but start Muller, which he always does even sometimes ahead of Robben.

I dont understand you guys, Ribery Robben and Kroos pass the ball to Muller at all time, Muller goal against Basel was Robben assist and I swear I have seen him miss so many easy chance from Robben, Kroos and Ribery passes.

Guys! Please drop the National team Prejudice, Muller has been bad this season and if anything he has himself to blame, not the coach or Robben who has won us so many games this season.

Muller has become a little bit arrogant, he has fought with Boateng and Badstuber already this season, Muller must learn to adapt and work-hard as much as he used to do during Van Gaals era, he's not technically talented, so he must take advantage of his intelligent play and most importantly improve his work-rate.
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Post by VivaStPauli Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:30 pm

:facepalm:

Müller has even been man of the match two or three times this season. I agree that he's off form, but he's still great.
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Post by The Messiah Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:33 pm

VivaStPauli wrote::facepalm:

Müller has even been man of the match two or three times this season. I agree that he's off form, but he's still great.

Man of the match 2 or 3 times.

:facepalm:

Of course Muller is a good player, but at the moment he needs to up his game, otherwise he could be left behind, especially when the likes of Shaqiri, Lewandowski and new fullback arrived(Alaba back to the wings)
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Post by Forza Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:43 am

Alaba will surely stay at WB, he is an absolute beast there at a time when every team in the world is short of a quality WB.

When Shaqiri arrives, I think Muller might be in serious trouble. Lewandowski is just speculation at the moment. I don't think Bayern will bring in another striker next transfer window.

Jupp might get that sack though. Would you be in favour of that if Bayern miss out on trophies this year?
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Post by The Messiah Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:56 am

To begin with I don't think we'll finish this season without winning a cup, JH has done a good job so far, there is a continuation between him and Van Gaal and as you can see we are already in cpl semi final(which is tremendous achievement) and getting eliminated by A team like Madrid isn't that bad.

Also we are 2nd in Bundesliga, only behind Dortmund because we have to play in Europe for almost half a season now, why Dortmund concentrate solely on Bundesliga. So I think JH has done a good job.

Anyways the only problem I have with JH, is his lack of trying new things. By now Van Gaal has already introduced Badstuber, Contento, Alaba and Muller, and brought out the best in them, while under JH he simply failed to capitalised on young talent like Petersen, Emre Can and Particularly Usami and even Breno, who could have become a better CB than Boatend and stubi


Last edited by Idrisozet on Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by juventus101 Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:01 am

Hes off form, but hes naturally a support striker or winger or even target man, but not a trequartista, where hes played at Bayern. No he definitely has not.peaked, but his.progress has definitely slowed down from how insanely fast he was developing around the World Cup time.
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Post by Sushi Master Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:04 am

Petersen needs a loan spell, and Can, too. They are far too raw.

Usami I never understood, because Ribéry has no bench and he could be better than Müller depending on the opposition. I guess he wasn't physically ready yet, but if Kagawa came from J-League to God performances in a single step, at the very least Usami could have been used as a bench option.

The truth is, Bayern have thin depth, and Schweinsteiger out for a long time make it extremely hard to compete for multiple honors. Considering the resources he's had, Heynckes has done very well, IMO.

He's also not that much of a dinosaur... he switched Lahm's flank, turned Alaba into an LB, had extreme faith in Kroos which has paid off and fixed our supposedly crap defense. That's enough for me.
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Post by The Messiah Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:11 am

juventus101 wrote:Hes off form, but hes naturally a support striker or winger or even target man, but not a trequartista, where hes played at Bayern. No he definitely has not.peaked, but his.progress has definitely slowed down from how insanely fast he was developing around the World Cup time.
juventus101 wrote:Hes off form, but hes naturally a support striker or winger or even target man, but not a trequartista, where hes played at Bayern. No he definitely has not.peaked, but his.progress has definitely slowed down from how insanely fast he was developing around the World Cup time.

Kroos is naturally an AM while Alaba is naturally a CM but they have both excell in other position and adapted very well, there isn't much difference between a SS and AM, compare to AM and DM or CM to LB. This goes to show how talented these players are.

Muller must adapt, there isn't much difference between the role he's playing under Van Gan than under JH, sometime he just seems to disappear from the team, this is one thing the Media can do to a young talent, Muller must forget all the media hyping, humble himself and start working hard again both on and off the pitch.
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