Re: Would you stop working if the state gave you 650€/month forever?

by FennecFox7 Wed Nov 04, 2015 7:47 am

M99 wrote:
Don't call me James wrote:people getting paid to go to school

Where do I sign up?

I know a lot of Americans who get paid for school You just need to set up a financial aid profile when applying for universities.

what planet are you living on Laughing

universities here are RIDICULOUSLY expensive
i have to shell out 5-10k a semester pretty soon and thats for an instate public university (UTD)
getting paid to go to a school like SMU for example.. not happening
and the only way FASFA will give you money is if you are
1.non dependant
2. low income
3. black, hispanic, mixed or native american

for the most part you'll get like.. nothing even with those steps followed^ honestly thinking about stripping at this point Laughing

its that bad

by M99 Wed Nov 04, 2015 7:56 am

FennecFox7 wrote:
M99 wrote:
Don't call me James wrote:people getting paid to go to school

Where do I sign up?

I know a lot of Americans who get paid for school You just need to set up a financial aid profile when applying for universities.

what planet are you living on

universities here are RIDICULOUSLY expensive
i have to shell out 5-10k a semester pretty soon and thats for an instate public university (UTD)
getting paid to go to a school like SMU for example.. not happening
and the only way FASFA will give you money is if you are
1.non dependant
2. low income
3. black, hispanic, mixed or native american

for the most part you'll get like.. nothing even with those steps followed^ honestly thinking about stripping at this point its that bad

Dude, I go to an American college. I know people who get paid but yes, some of them fit the criteria you listed.

by Freeza Wed Nov 04, 2015 8:05 am

Well we get paid + university is free hmm

Our taxes are high for a reason

by Vibe Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:01 am

Well 650 is a doctor or judge salary in Serbia, so I would definitely stop working Laughing

My work in healthcare is paid like 300 euros, which is why I am moving to Germany in 2017 where I will be paid 2500 euros for doing far less. When I started working the salary was 400 euros. While the salary remains the same, Serbian Dinar lost that much value in relation to the Euro.

by free_cat Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:10 am

You guys have to understand the concept of Purchasing power parity when considering if you'd stop working or not. That's why I gave you a reference on what you can get with 650€ in Spain. Obviously, in Scandinavia 650€ gives you shit, and in Serbia it's a lot. The important here is to consider what would you do if they gave you a wage enough to have a modest life but with no luxuries for not doing anything.

Luckily I have a skilled job, so I wouldn't quit for those 650€, however, if I had an unskilled job I would definitely quit and do some part-time off the record jobs and live the good life.

I think this initiative is very bad to be honest. A minimum wage like this should be very very minimum, barely enough to live so people wants to improve. It's a poverty trap.

Also, I think it would be a better idea if everyone who earns money from the state (the rest of us), worked for the state. There should be some kind of social jobs for this people to do part time: cleaning assistants, security watchers (not policemen), garden assistants, etc.

For instances, they should work 4 hours for the sate, and have the rest of the day to study/learn and look for a job.

by Freeza Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:34 am

Well I mentioned you could get 1700€ in Denmark (I think, maybe 1300-1500). For not working, but I'd really not want to do that at all, because I wouldn't what the hell I'd do with my day. Too much free time is boring, and I really want a work and some sort of social environment i visit with regularity.

by VivaStPauli Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:01 am

Never, I've done the "poor, but at least well rested" life style as a student back in the day, and will never repeat it.

Anything less than 2.5k after taxes makes living in these parts a drag.

Besides the point that I, like 99% of people, just get depressed if I got nothing to do all day. But mostly the 650 really not being enough part.

So a life "with bare minimums, and no hardship", while probably appealing to some if they don't have to work, is not enough for me. I want to travel every once in a while, afford the odd luxury, and wear some nice shoes.

by iftikhar Wed Nov 04, 2015 1:18 pm

Pirloisjesus wrote:Though in theory it sounds very much robinhoody my question is even if money with people increases what about the gross domestic product? Is it going to increase? No. Then what happens is peopl have so much money but less goods are produced leading to hyper inflation. This type of condition not healthy for entrepreneurs so they shut down their enterprises or contract it leading to more unemployment. So that's not some good gesture by Spanish its basically economical travesty.

Agreed, but it's only partly true in contemporary world. You are forgetting about import. With more people with money, increased demand will lead to imports. It might essentially lead to more employments too. Shops will need more people to handle bigger customer base.

On topic, I don't think people will stop working for a very basic lifestyle. Even the most hard-pressed segments go to pubs (or other entertainment), send kids to school and need home improvements (change the mattress, fix the leak).

So while that money will help them survive, they will look for opportunities to improve their life. However, I'm against giving pure hand-outs. Such supports should be tied to social service or as such.

by VivaStPauli Wed Nov 04, 2015 1:44 pm

It's not like a significant percentage of people just stopped working in societies that guarantee a minimum income, so I really don't see a problem with giving "pure hand-outs", the life a minimum income gets you usually isn't worth the bliss of not having to work.

by FennecFox7 Thu Nov 05, 2015 7:18 am

Well I would never live on that much money. There's just too many things I like to buy. At the end of the day its perfectly possible for most people to get a job they like and work to live and not live to work.

Just don't be that person that works in the silicon valley putting in 90 hrs a week in a crappy corporate job. Unless your passion is working. And even then, don't make it your passion imo.

by free_cat Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:41 am

VivaStPauli wrote:It's not like a significant percentage of people just stopped working in societies that guarantee a minimum income, so I really don't see a problem with giving "pure hand-outs", the life a minimum income gets you usually isn't worth the bliss of not having to work.

I think that there are no societies that guarantee a minimum income for doing nothing. Correct me if I'm wrong.

by Thimmy Thu Nov 05, 2015 9:31 am

Pedram wrote:
LeVersacci wrote:
Freeza wrote:I get more from the state going to school, so no
You live on your own? dat €670 from state doe ffs

Scandinavian Socialism.

I once had a relatively young colleague who worked part-time. He didn't want to work any extra shifts, because if he did, he would exceed the amount of hours he could work while at the same time get his monthly 20k NOK in welfare wages - which is more than what most part-timers earn. Our welfare system sucks and is easily exploitable.

by Thimmy Thu Nov 05, 2015 9:33 am

free_cat wrote:
VivaStPauli wrote:It's not like a significant percentage of people just stopped working in societies that guarantee a minimum income, so I really don't see a problem with giving "pure hand-outs", the life a minimum income gets you usually isn't worth the bliss of not having to work.

I think that there are no societies that guarantee a minimum income for doing nothing. Correct me if I'm wrong.

There's no guarantee, but it's easy to achieve it by feigning injury/illness, and/or pretending to be actively looking for a job. Swedes and Danes who come here for work, are known to have far better work ethics than Norwegians, which I assume is because their welfare system doesn't as easily provide cash for doing basically nothing. Can you confirm this, Sacci/Freeza? If I remember correctly, my Swedish ex didn't get any money while she was ill.

by Freeza Thu Nov 05, 2015 9:59 am

Thimmy wrote:
free_cat wrote:
VivaStPauli wrote:It's not like a significant percentage of people just stopped working in societies that guarantee a minimum income, so I really don't see a problem with giving "pure hand-outs", the life a minimum income gets you usually isn't worth the bliss of not having to work.

I think that there are no societies that guarantee a minimum income for doing nothing. Correct me if I'm wrong.

There's no guarantee, but it's easy to achieve it by feigning injury/illness, and/or pretending to be actively looking for a job. Swedes and Danes who come here for work, are known to have far better work ethics than Norwegians, which I assume is because their welfare system doesn't as easily provide cash for doing basically nothing. Can you confirm this, Sacci/Freeza? If I remember correctly, my Swedish ex didn't get any money while she was ill.

It's oh so easy to get it.

by LeVersacci Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:23 am

And easy to exploit it smh

by VivaStPauli Thu Nov 05, 2015 3:10 pm

free_cat wrote:
VivaStPauli wrote:It's not like a significant percentage of people just stopped working in societies that guarantee a minimum income, so I really don't see a problem with giving "pure hand-outs", the life a minimum income gets you usually isn't worth the bliss of not having to work.

I think that there are no societies that guarantee a minimum income for doing nothing. Correct me if I'm wrong.

The "doing nothing" part is a bit relative, but it's basically impossible in Switzerland and Germany to arrive at a point where non of the social security net applies to you, so yes, even if you do nothing, you still end up with a minimum income, AFAIK nothing short of ending up in jail will make you inelligible to get social security payments which include paying a moderate rent, which is enough to at least rent a room.

Despite the right wing (mainstream conservatives included) raving about this for decades, I haven't seen a single study, I as a scientist would take seriously, that shows an amount of abuse of these systems I would call relevant. It's the low single digit percentages.

Of course every once in a while you'll dig up a case where some asshole with two BMWs managed to claim benefits for 15 years.

That guy will then go to jail. It's actually quite easy to catch someone living large while claiming unemployment benefits. The only real abuse that is probably really rampant is people working somewhere for cash part time, off the books, and still claiming benefits. And despite that being illegal for obvious reasons, someone evading taxes to the tune of 50 bucks per month really doesn't get me to question the entirety of social security.

by CBarca Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:58 pm

If this is a "650 euros per month vs low skilled job making 1000 euros per month" type thing, I would take the 650 euros per month. I'd likely spend my time reading, going to school, or whatever trying to get myself a skilled job.

Spent a decent chunk of my summer working in a factory doing repetitive, unskilled work. Never again. I have respect for the people that do that work and they were all very nice people, I liked them. Personally though, I couldn't do it. I was already starting to hate my life after like 6 weeks.

by Thimmy Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:51 pm

The former colleague of mine that I referred to in an earlier post collected approximately $2600 in welfare wages last month, from only working two shifts as a substitute teacher. He's perfectly fit and healthy, but he pretends to be mentally traumatized from a past event in his life, or something. He still refuses to take extra shifts, and he's been pretending to be actively looking for a job for at least two years now. GOD, these things get on my nerves..

by BarrileteCosmico Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:48 am

I wouldn't consider living off this at all, but maybe if I'm out of savings this would make me less worried about quitting a job I hate

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