Re: Ronaldo vs Messi

by The Franchise Wed 4 Nov 2015 - 15:39

That doesnt upset me very much, I am not that much into ranking players in the first place. I think you can pick 3 different players, rank them as much we like, and on a given day/week/month/season the guy we ranked last did alot better than the other 2. That's football, thats how it can be.

The only reason I commented on this thread is because comparing Cristiano to Messi is such a big thing in today's football and I just dont understand it. I think Messi is another level kind of player, one you see every 20 years or more. You have to dig so deep to find the minor flaws in his game. Cristiano is not like this.

I have little idea why the comparison to Iniesta was even thrown out here.

by rwo power Wed 4 Nov 2015 - 15:55

I guess the Iniesta part was to highlight team player vs ego player.

by chad4401 Wed 4 Nov 2015 - 15:56

saying this for a while messi>cr so much, that cr had to turn into a poacher to stay relevant Laughing

.

he ain't even clinical, anybody who needs 10-12 shots for a brace, is not a natural goalscorer fact, not a leader, chokes a lot and is clearly a pos.

messi is also a pos but he plays for his team and can raise him teammates level by dishing out taps ins to boost their confidence, more of a natural finisher than cr too and barca actually won things thanks to his goals.

messi>cr.

by Hapless_Hans Wed 4 Nov 2015 - 16:21

Ok that seems settled.

Noone thinks Ronaldo is better, so why the debate?

by Claudio84 Wed 4 Nov 2015 - 16:23

Hapless_Hans wrote:Ok that seems settled.

Noone thinks Ronaldo is better, so why the debate?

The only one who thinks is better is Ronaldo himself

by Bankz Wed 4 Nov 2015 - 16:56

Hapless_Hans wrote:Ok that seems settled.

Noone thinks Ronaldo is better, so why the debate?

halamadrid2 wrote:Ronaldo and its not even close

by Cruijf Wed 4 Nov 2015 - 19:04

Pretty sure he was trolling lol, no one in the right mind actually believes that.

by Lucifer Wed 4 Nov 2015 - 19:13

Ronaldo: Hi Messi ! I am better than you.
Messi: Hi 'better than you' I am Messi.

by FennecFox7 Wed 4 Nov 2015 - 19:27

Harmonica, absolutely no one takes your statistics seriously. You were caught on your ass lying about messi's dispossessions and turnovers. show me a third party source otherwise don't post Smile

Like I said, Ronaldo's ego kills his ability to fully display his skill. He needs someone like Sir Alex to whip his ass to discipline him

by Harmonica Wed 4 Nov 2015 - 19:36

Those are third party source lmao. So now what? rofl

by FennecFox7 Thu 5 Nov 2015 - 8:08

Well post the actual links. I'll take your graphs for granted at times, but when it comes to paragraphs of texts you should write a source

by Harmonica Thu 5 Nov 2015 - 11:46

FennecFox7 wrote:Well post the actual links. I'll take your graphs for granted at times, but when it comes to paragraphs of texts you should write a source

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/lionel-messi-is-impossible/

by The Demon of Carthage Thu 5 Nov 2015 - 12:32

Cruijf wrote:Pretty sure he was trolling lol, no one in the right mind actually believes that.

Well, I prefer Ronaldo. You may think Messi is better, but I wouldn't swap Ronaldo for him in a million years. It all boils down to personal preferences at the end of the day and I prefer Ronaldo's style (devastating pace, smashing screamers from afar, all-around complete striker -strong left foot, right foot, fantastic header, ...- and one of the best finishers in the game if not the best with a 1.x goal to game ratio.)

I can easily understand why many believe Messi to be the best. But to me I prefer Ronaldo's style.

by Myesyats Thu 5 Nov 2015 - 16:19

So in other words, you prefer not to win many trophies?

by LeBéninois Thu 5 Nov 2015 - 17:11

The Demon of Carthage wrote:
Cruijf wrote:Pretty sure he was trolling lol, no one in the right mind actually believes that.

Well, I prefer Ronaldo. You may think Messi is better, but I wouldn't swap Ronaldo for him in a million years. It all boils down to personal preferences at the end of the day and I prefer Ronaldo's style (devastating pace, smashing screamers from afar, all-around complete striker -strong left foot, right foot, fantastic header, ...- and one of the best finishers in the game if not the best with a 1.x goal to game ratio.)

I can easily understand why many believe Messi to be the best. But to me I prefer Ronaldo's style.

You can prefer Ronaldo's style while aknowledging that Messi is the better player ( No shame , I mean it's Messi )

by Cruijf Thu 5 Nov 2015 - 17:18

Yeah, if you prefer Ronaldo in terms of the way he plays that's fair enough. But to actually say Ronaldo is the better player, and "not even close", you have to be trolling.

by futbol_bill Thu 5 Nov 2015 - 17:37

I started this thread on the basis of what Ronaldo recently said and the fact that these two are always being compared and without doubt they have been a full notch above all other players for the past 5 / 7 years.

But to say Messi is the clear winner is one thing but to put down Ronaldo is quite another. They both are extremely talented, but Messi wins because he is a better team player and Ronaldo's personality makes for put downs.

They will both be remembered for their dominant play, but I still say they may not compare to past greats because of their lack of success at NT level. Those of you saying Ronaldo hasn't had the fortune of good teammates at the NT level are ignoring the talent they had at the end of Figo and Deco's time and the team in Euro 2012. And as to Messi, he had the opportunity in last WC, but I maintain they lost final because of Messi (and I certainly don't buy that he was player of that tournament).

by Harmonica Thu 5 Nov 2015 - 17:44

Messi's national career at this point is hardly inferior to anyone:

National career highs:

Messi @28
WC14 runner-up, Golden Ball
CA15 runner-up, MVP
CA07 runner-up, Best Young Player
Olympic Gold, (no individual awards, involved 9/9 goals on the field)
WC05u20 champion, Golden Ball

Ronaldo
WC98 runner-up, Golden Ball
WC02 champion, Silver Ball
CA97 champion, MVP
CA99 champion, -
CC97 champion, -

Pele
WC70 champion, Golden Ball
WC58 champion, Silver Ball
CA59-1 runner-up, MVP

Zidane
WC06 runner-up, Golden Ball
WC98 champion, -
EU00 champion, Best Player

Maradona
WC86 champion, Golden Ball
WC90 runner-up, Bronze Ball
WC79u20 champion, Golden Ball

Cruyff
WC74 runner-up, Golden Ball

Di Stefano
CA47 champion, -

National career lows:

Di Stefano - Failed to qualify with Spain to WC58 with the likes of Gento, Suarez and Kubala
Maradona - Lost 3 games out of 5 in WC82 with defending champions
Pele - Got dumbed out in group-phase in WC66 with defending champions, who won WC62 without him
Zidane - Got dumped out in group-phase in WC02 with defending champions.
Cruyff - Netherlands lost with and won without Cruyff in EU76
Ronaldo - ?
Messi - ?

Maybe vs Jose Nasazzi, but then again who hasn't? Cronaldo however is a national team flop and again completely out of league of others.

by futbol_bill Thu 5 Nov 2015 - 17:54

runner up equals success???

and you don't rank any Germans or Italians in that all time list?

and Xavi, Iniesta, Casilla will all rank above these two considering the three major trophies they won in terms of team success and their contributions to it.

by LeBéninois Thu 5 Nov 2015 - 18:00

futbol_bill wrote:I started this thread on the basis of what Ronaldo recently said and the fact that these two are always being compared and without doubt they have been a full notch above all other players for the past 5 / 7 years.

But to say Messi is the clear winner is one thing but to put down Ronaldo is quite another. They both are extremely talented, but Messi wins because he is a better team player and Ronaldo's personality makes for put downs.

They will both be remembered for their dominant play, but I still say they may not compare to past greats because of their lack of success at NT level. Those of you saying Ronaldo hasn't had the fortune of good teammates at the NT level are ignoring the talent they had at the end of Figo and Deco's time and the team in Euro 2012. And as to Messi, he had the opportunity in last WC, but I maintain they lost final because of Messi (and I certainly don't buy that he was player of that tournament).

How exactly did they lose BECAUSE of Messi ?!?!

by Curtinho Thu 5 Nov 2015 - 18:03

I think people are still a bit jaded with what Ronaldo has become versus what he used to be.

I mean, he's still a great player now but he was a far more complete (and less selfish) player when he was at United. I think when we're stacking him up in terms of his ability against other players it should be to look at his peak years.

Didn't he have to change his style of play because of his knees? I mean look at this:

How often does he play like this anymore?

by Harmonica Thu 5 Nov 2015 - 18:07

Cronaldo lost his overall play when he moved to Madrid and started to compete Messi in goal scoring. You can also blame media for this.

by Valkyrja Thu 5 Nov 2015 - 18:08

Curtinho wrote:I think people are still a bit jaded with what Ronaldo has become versus what he used to be.

I mean, he's still a great player now but he was a far more complete (and less selfish) player when he was at United. I think when we're stacking him up in terms of his ability against other players it should be to look at his peak years.

Didn't he have to change his style of play because of his knees? I mean look at this:

How often does he play like this anymore?

He was much more selfish at United. Just watch the 09 CL final. You don't see him shooting from that absurd angles all the time anymore. It was quite clear that he would become the player he has been for 5 years in 07-08. And he wasn't more complete at United, but more flashy. He cut out most of the useless tricks after Mourinho's arrival.

by Valkyrja Thu 5 Nov 2015 - 18:08

Harmonica wrote:Cronaldo lost his overall play when he moved to Madrid and started to compete Messi in goal scoring. You can also blame media for this.

Actually, it was Ronaldo the first who broke the 40 goals barrier in 08.

by Harmonica Thu 5 Nov 2015 - 18:09

futbol_bill wrote:runner up equals success???

and you don't rank any Germans or Italians in that all time list?

and Xavi, Iniesta, Casilla will all rank above these two considering the three major trophies they won in terms of team success and their contributions to it.

Well that was comparison of all-time level players. And none of players you listed will compare with Messi @28 when you consider individual importance and team success.

by Claudio84 Thu 5 Nov 2015 - 18:10

He's bigger now than he used to be at United, i think that has affected his agility and dribbling skills. he needs to let go of that unnecesary bulk he's carrying these days, his knees would appreciate it

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