Ronaldo vs Messi

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Post by The Demon of Carthage Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:17 pm

The thing is, being 'the best' means that you're literally the best at everything (passing, shooting, dribbling, heading, game reading, vision, decision making, positioning, crossing,...). It's impossible to find someone who's good at everything because everybody's got weaknesses.

This is why the question "who's the best of all-time?" is irrelevant and doesn't make any sense.

As far as Messi is concerned, I can safely say that he's the best player I have ever seen when it comes to passing. His passes are insanely accurate, and as a result, he can create a chance out of thin air for his teammates.

Everything else remains debatable because there are many all-time greats that happen to be better than him in some of other categories.

As for R9, he's hands down the best CF in the history of the game. The CFs playing today would look like amateurs next to him.



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Post by Clutch Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:20 pm

The Demon of Carthage wrote:The thing is, being 'the best' means that you're literally the best at everything (passing, shooting, dribbling, heading, game reading, vision, decision making, positioning, crossing,...). It's impossible to find someone who's good at everything because everybody's got weaknesses.

This is why the question "who's the best of all-time?" is irrelevant and doesn't make any sense.

As far as Messi is concerned, I can safely say that he's the best player I have ever seen when it comes to passing. His passes are insanely accurate, and as a result, he can create a chance out of thin air for his teammates.

Everything else remains debatable because there are many all-time greats that happen to be better than him in some of other categories.

As for R9, he's hands down the best CF in the history of the game. The CFs playing today would look like amateurs next to him.


Well said

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Post by Jafo Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:21 pm


Pirloisjesus wrote:
Jafo wrote:R9 was flashy and faster but at everything else messi is better. It doesnt matter if you dribble 4 players by feints and tricks or just simply direction changing. So if at getting past players they are same at what R9 was better? It was speed and flashy dribbling ok. But lets not understmate messi's speed.he was super fast when he was 19. Just see his Getafe goal. Now at 28 he lost his speed and uses other abilities. I dont have any idea what R9 would use after he loses his speed. He was dependent on speed too much

Well I only talked about speed and dribbling. I didnt talk about playmaking passing and other abilities of Messi. So lets not underestimate unflashy messi.he is just as good as flashy players.controlling the ball at full speed so close to your feet is insane technique as well
welcome to GL mate Thumbs up
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Post by Jafo Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:28 pm

The Demon of Carthage wrote:The thing is, being 'the best' means that you're literally the best at everything (passing, shooting, dribbling, heading, game reading, vision, decision making, positioning, crossing,...). It's impossible to find someone who's good at everything because everybody's got weaknesses.

This is why the question "who's the best of all-time?" is irrelevant and doesn't make any sense.

As far as Messi is concerned, I can safely say that he's the best player I have ever seen when it comes to passing. His passes are insanely accurate, and as a result, he can create a chance out of thin air for his teammates.

Everything else remains debatable because there are many all-time greats that happen to be better than him in some of other categories.

As for R9, he's hands down the best CF in the history of the game. The CFs playing today would look like amateurs next to him.

his passing is also debatable for being best ever. But what makes his best ever is that his every skill is debatable for being at best ever level Razz   find me another player who is debatable best ever at scoring at passing at dribbling and playmaking

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Post by Clutch Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:35 pm

Jafo wrote:
The Demon of Carthage wrote:The thing is, being 'the best' means that you're literally the best at everything (passing, shooting, dribbling, heading, game reading, vision, decision making, positioning, crossing,...). It's impossible to find someone who's good at everything because everybody's got weaknesses.

This is why the question "who's the best of all-time?" is irrelevant and doesn't make any sense.

As far as Messi is concerned, I can safely say that he's the best player I have ever seen when it comes to passing. His passes are insanely accurate, and as a result, he can create a chance out of thin air for his teammates.

Everything else remains debatable because there are many all-time greats that happen to be better than him in some of other categories.

As for R9, he's hands down the best CF in the history of the game. The CFs playing today would look like amateurs next to him.

his passing is also debatable for being best ever. But what makes his best ever is that his every skill is debatable for being at best ever level Razz   find me another player who is debatable best ever at scoring at passing at dribbling and playmaking
playmaking is an attribute? hmm

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Post by Jafo Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:44 pm

Yeah making a play actually is attibute. Example messi starts the attack from midfield with one-twos or turns and uses other player to get past opponent, opens space and makes final pass.this is actually a skill. Playmaking like Zidane and scoring like R9. You will not find another player who can do both at best level

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Post by Clutch Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:55 pm

Jafo wrote:Yeah making a play actually is attibute. Example messi starts the attack from midfield with one-twos or turns and uses other player to get past opponent, opens space and makes final pass.this is actually a skill. Playmaking like Zidane and scoring like R9. You will not find another player who can do both at best level
I wouldnt call that an attribute. I never heard anyone say, "wow did you see that playmaking right there?' You basically just described different types of passing and creating space. Playmaking is more of a definiton of how somone plays imo. Scoring is also not a crucial element in playmaking.

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Post by El Messico Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:51 pm

Valkyrja wrote:
El Messico wrote:I didn't watch pre-injury R9 outside of highlights but I find it hard to believe that a striker has as much overall talent and impact as Messi. It's hard to comprehend but, as Michael Cox says, Messi is 3 world-class players in one.


Messi is the more complete footballer, but I've never seen anyone do what Ronaldo used to do before 99. The way he combined pace, body strength and technique was unbelievable. His knees were human though.


Would you consider pre-injury R9 as better than Messi ever was? Was he better than 10/11 Messi? 14/15 Messi? 11/12 Messi? Week in-week out, was he actually better than Messi?

Because if he was, he would be putting up Messi numbers. Messi scored 58 goals last season despite basically playing like a midfielder on the right.

I've watched every single YT highlight-worthy moment of Ronaldo. Of course, you are totally correct in how he combined technique, pace and strength - I've never seen it any other player. But Messi is able to dribble just as effectively with technique, close control and acceleration. To go with that, he has all-time great level finishing and all-time great level passing.

Like I said, I just find it hard to believe that pre-injury R9 can be considered better than peak Messi. Messi's influence and imprint on games is huge

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Post by El Messico Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:54 pm

El Messico wrote:Just to substantiate that 3 players-in-one statement, a video from just 1 season:




Just unbelievable. There is nothing he can't do in the attacking aspect of the game.


I don't even actually care that much about goals and assists numbers. Just watching this Messi video I posted is enough for me.

It seems like he can do everything, not just at a good level but at the best-in-the-world level. I really don't feel uncomfortable saying he's the best finisher in the world, the best dribbler in the world and the best passer in the world. This has been the case since 10/11, with a dip in 13/14. That consistency is another dimension where Messi is superior to R9

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Post by Donuts Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:05 am

lack of avatars in this page is confusing Razz
welcome all btw
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Post by guest_07 Sat Nov 07, 2015 2:12 am

The Demon of Carthage wrote:
Don't call me James wrote:
The Demon of Carthage wrote:Being runner-up is now considered a trophy? That's just sad.


It is a much bigger and more difficult achievement than not getting out of the group.

Ultimately, only taking the trophy home matters. The rest are all losers whether they crashed out from the group stage or the final.

This is why I never understood why would anybody list being a runner-up as a trophy. It's beyond sad. I feel bad for whoever does it.


i don't agree with you on "only trophy matter"

your definition of success is too narrow minded

the success is depend on what is your objective or aim

if the team named Timor Leste have an aim in qualifying for world cup & they did, that is the success, not need to win the trophy

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Post by Bankz Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:46 am

To each his own. Anybody who says messi is better has his opinion and rightly so, but like I said, in my eyes, the pre injury R9 was a bigger talent than messi ever was and I believe if he needed to playmake, he would also do so at god level.

He didn't really need to do so because there were always fantastic midfielders in his clubs from barca to milan from figo, enrique, guardiola, to recoba, rivaldo, dinho, denilson, zidane etc

His team mates like emmerson and his coach at inter (not hector cuper though) often said that R9 never was interested in training, he was easily bored with such things, he was never really a model professional unlike players today, similar to romario, yet still dominated football as a teenager and young star in an era that boosted "probably" the largest talent pool ever (90's).

Infact at 21 he probably already sealed his status as an all time great and was on his way to be the GOAT, save for that mysterious incident the night before the final. As if that wasn't enough, in 99 the injury happened and he was kept out till 2002, yet came back to win the world cup as the top scorer (8 goals) and the best outfield player, even after loosing his legs and speed. Now, that's the definition of greatness and victory in my book.
Like I said, messi might be more complete player, but Ronaldo was the more gifted one.
sometimes I wonder what he would have become if that night in paris (98) and the injuries never happened..

Like TOTTI said, "one of the greatest tragedies in football was that we never got to see R9 at his best"!!!

"I think Ronaldo felt he didn't need to work as hard as us in training. He could do in two days what the rest would take 10 days to do. And usually he was right."
EMERSON, FORMER TEAM-MATE

"I play in Italy and everyone I've ever talked to there said that Ronaldo was the best player that ever played in Italy. For me he was the most complete player ever."
MIROSLAV KLOSE

“In my career, Diego Maradona had the biggest
influence on me,” Cannavaro told local channel 21CN.
“But I think there is another player who might be
even greater. That’s the Brazilian Ronaldo."
FABIO CANNAVARO

"Maradona and Ronaldo were the hardest opponents I ever had to face in my career"
PAULO MALDINI

"Without hesitation, Ronaldo is the best player I ever played with. He had such an ease with the ball. He is number one. Every day I trained with him, I saw something different, something new, something beautiful. That's what makes the
difference between a very good player, and the exception."
ZINEDINE ZIDANE



Now I know multiple things have being said about messi too, but if you look closely, u would notice that they said some very specific things that where not born out on the spur of the moment, for instance what klose said, what emmerson said and read again what zidane said these where not just them giving their opinions, those were first hand experiences and factual information.

Then the others are all time best defenders that actually played against him, not just judging from afar or giving their 2 cents as admirers or fellow forward/teammates who probably don't know what its like playing against him in an active match, but these are the VERY VERY BEST DEFENDERS, who played against him week in week out, or had first hand information about him and his talent.
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Post by Harmonica Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:45 am

rwo power wrote:
Harmonica wrote:Messi's national career at this point is hardly inferior to anyone:

National career highs:
Messi @28
WC14 runner-up, Golden Ball
CA15 runner-up, MVP
CA07 runner-up, Best Young Player
Olympic Gold, (no individual awards, involved 9/9 goals on the field)
WC05u20 champion, Golden Ball
Let me add Gerd Müller, as I feel sad for him getting left out as he just celebrated his 70th birthday:

- World Cup 1974 winner
- Euro 1972 winner
- Euro 1972 top scorer
- World Cup 1970 top scorer (10 goals in 6 matches)

All in all he scored 14 goals in the two World Cups he played in and 16 goals in his 12 Euro matches. During his 62 caps in his 8 years with the German NT, he scored 68 goals altogether. He retired from the German NT at age 28 just after the World Cup 1974.
Top scorer is part of the best player trophy, but Müller did win Bronze Ball in WC70.

Gerd Müller

WC70 3rd, Bronze Ball
WC74 champion, -
EU72 champion, (no individual awards)

Probably would've won best player of EU72 though.

Jose Nasazzi still has easily the best nt-career with most major team titles and being the only player with 3 major tournament best player titles.

Jose Nasazzi

WC30 champion, Golden Ball
CA23 champion, MVP
CA35 champion, MVP
CA24 champion, -
CA26 champion, -
OL24 Gold, (no individual awards)
OL28 Gold, (no individual awards)

Olympics being practically World Cup before World Cup. Won 7/8 tournaments he participated. Interestingly he has very insignificant club career.
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Post by free_cat Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:09 am

Anyone who says Messi isn't better than Ronaldo Nazario is probably just blinded by nostalgia. As good as Ronaldo was, he was incapable of 1/10th of Messi's passing and creativity, while surely Messi is at least the scorer and driblre Ronaldo was.
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Post by Pseudo Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:16 pm

Bankz wrote:Why don't u factor in ronaldos individual trophies. I reckon in 30 years, people will remember who won 3 balon d'ors, the real madrid top scorer in history, CL top scorer in history, la liga records and so on.. His


Nah, team trophies always win in the end. It's the reason Zidane is remembered more fondly by Football casuals than Platani despite being an inferior player.
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Post by Bankz Fri Nov 13, 2015 6:28 pm

Pseudo wrote:
Bankz wrote:Why don't u factor in ronaldos individual trophies. I reckon in 30 years, people will remember who won 3 balon d'ors, the real madrid top scorer in history, CL top scorer in history, la liga records and so on.. His


Nah, team trophies always win in the end. It's the reason Zidane is remembered more fondly by Football casuals than Platani despite being an inferior player.
At least someone else admits that platini was a superior player to zidane.. Wheew, Thank God!!!
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Post by Hapless_Hans Fri Nov 13, 2015 7:36 pm

Tired of firs and spruces as christmas trees. This year I might go for a Platani.
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Post by Lucifer Fri Nov 13, 2015 7:38 pm

Boobs vs Butt thread would have been more informative than this thread :coffee:

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Post by Bankz Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:06 pm

Me prefers butts
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Post by •MilanDevil• Sat Jul 09, 2016 6:10 am

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Post by Based Bonera Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:31 am

This shouldn't even be a comparison anymore. Messi is a level below Ronaldo and has already given up on Argentina national team. Whereas Ronaldo is just getting started to bring glory to Portugal.
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Post by Jack Daniels Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:41 am

•MilanDevil• wrote:

0:29 lmao
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Post by Thimmy Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:24 am

Pseudo wrote:

Nah, team trophies always win in the end. It's the reason Zidane is remembered more fondly by Football casuals than Platani despite being an inferior player.


I think it's more likely that casuals tend to rate Zidane above Platini, since there's a significant generation gap between the two players. Similarly, a lot of people rate Messi above Maradona, regardless of whether they were even alive during Maradona's time. Casuals, in particular, tend to have a strong bias towards whatever is new and still relevant.
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Post by Kebab Tue Jul 12, 2016 2:14 pm

Trophies matter if level of players are close. No matter what Actnaldo wins, being considered better than Messi will be a tough task.maybe impossible

See the guy won the Euros.but not a single person compared him to pele or maradona.they are just celebrating messi losing the copa. ronaldo is already forgotten
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Post by Valkyrja Tue Jul 12, 2016 2:23 pm

At this point Mesxit fanboys are more obsessed about Der Kommander than Der Kommander's GOAT fans are about Mesxit. Check Barcaforum. The meltdown is so obvious rofl

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