Ronaldo vs Messi

Being runner-up is now considered a trophy? That's just sad.

Just when I tought his dumbness would never be surpassed..lol,
Giving props for being a runner up? LMAO!!!

There's an award for top scorers and best players, thus boosting a players credentials at NT level and sadly none for most dribbles LMAO!!!

Poor messi, if only he had a single top scorer award to boast of at NT level, u would be spamming the web with it by now..

The Demon of Carthage wrote:Being runner-up is now considered a trophy? That's just sad.

In a real world carrying weak team to final is better performance than winning the title being part of a great team, which still is better than being carried to the title by a great team, or to the final like Zidane WC06.

Harmonica wrote:

The Demon of Carthage wrote:Being runner-up is now considered a trophy? That's just sad.

In a real world carrying weak team to final is better performance than winning the title being part of a great team.

how on earth is Argentina a weak team? Pastore, Aguero, Di Maria, Higuain, Mascherano, Tevez

Claudio84 wrote:

Harmonica wrote:

The Demon of Carthage wrote:Being runner-up is now considered a trophy? That's just sad.

In a real world carrying weak team to final is better performance than winning the title being part of a great team.

how on earth is Argentina a weak team? Pastore, Aguero, Di Maria, Higuain, Mascherano, Tevez

Have you watched how those players played? Bunch of underperfomers with zero tactics hardly is a great team, names on paper isn't a great team. Which shows in a team edge and how much Messi carries it. Messi was involved 16 of the 17 goals Argentina scored in back to back runner-ups in World Cup and Copa America, and only needed Higuain 1on1 and tapin to hit the target and win them. Nobody has ever carried team so much in major tournaments.

Bankz wrote:
Btw, In my mind pre injury R9 is a better player and bigger talent than messi ever was..

Nostalgic revisionism

El Messico wrote:I didn't watch pre-injury R9 outside of highlights but I find it hard to believe that a striker has as much overall talent and impact as Messi. It's hard to comprehend but, as Michael Cox says, Messi is 3 world-class players in one.

Messi is the more complete footballer, but I've never seen anyone do what Ronaldo used to do before 99. The way he combined pace, body strength and technique was unbelievable. His knees were human though.

Valkyrja wrote:

El Messico wrote:I didn't watch pre-injury R9 outside of highlights but I find it hard to believe that a striker has as much overall talent and impact as Messi. It's hard to comprehend but, as Michael Cox says, Messi is 3 world-class players in one.

Messi is the more complete footballer, but I've never seen anyone do what Ronaldo used to do before 99. The way he combined pace, body strength and technique was unbelievable. His knees were human though.

Agreed.

Valkyrja wrote:

El Messico wrote:I didn't watch pre-injury R9 outside of highlights but I find it hard to believe that a striker has as much overall talent and impact as Messi. It's hard to comprehend but, as Michael Cox says, Messi is 3 world-class players in one.

Messi is the more complete footballer, but I've never seen anyone do what Ronaldo used to do before 99. The way he combined pace, body strength and technique was unbelievable. His knees were human though.

Ronaldo's steroid-use ruined his ligaments with unnatural growth. And he was nowhere near Messi level even in those years.

Harmonica wrote:

Valkyrja wrote:

El Messico wrote:I didn't watch pre-injury R9 outside of highlights but I find it hard to believe that a striker has as much overall talent and impact as Messi. It's hard to comprehend but, as Michael Cox says, Messi is 3 world-class players in one.

Messi is the more complete footballer, but I've never seen anyone do what Ronaldo used to do before 99. The way he combined pace, body strength and technique was unbelievable. His knees were human though.

Ronaldo's steroid-use ruined his ligaments with unnatural growth. And he was nowhere near Messi level even in those years.

Valkyrja wrote:

Harmonica wrote:

Valkyrja wrote:


Messi is the more complete footballer, but I've never seen anyone do what Ronaldo used to do before 99. The way he combined pace, body strength and technique was unbelievable. His knees were human though.

Ronaldo's steroid-use ruined his ligaments with unnatural growth. And he was nowhere near Messi level even in those years.

How well you know your heroes?

http://www.4dfoot.com/2013/02/09/doping-in-football-fifty-years-of-evidence/

1990’s – The sorry fate of Ronaldo

Ronaldo PSV doping

In the public’s eye the Brazilian Ronaldo ruined his own career through overeating, but perhaps an even bigger problem that prevented Ronaldo from delivering on his promise were his terrible knee injuries. At 21, he had won the Ballon d’Or twice and looked set to become one of the all-time greats. But repeated tendon ruptures ended that dream. According to Bernardino Santi, anti-doping official at the Brazilian football Federation, Ronaldo’s injuries were no coincidence. Doping use was to blame.

I spoke to some colleagues in Holland. They told me that Ronaldo, who was very fragile at the time, received steroids during his period at PSV. As a result his muscles grew more than his tendons were capable of sustaining.

Santi was promptly fired by the Brazilian football association, but similar statements have been made by Italian author Enzo Palladini, who wrote a biography on Ronaldo.

Pretty much every legend doped, Ronaldo took steroids, Cruyff/Platini and co. popped amphetamines and Maradona swam in Cocaine and so on... Pretty well documented, but hardly talked.

The Demon of Carthage wrote:Being runner-up is now considered a trophy? That's just sad.

It is a much bigger and more difficult achievement than not getting out of the group.

Harmonica wrote:

Valkyrja wrote:

El Messico wrote:I didn't watch pre-injury R9 outside of highlights but I find it hard to believe that a striker has as much overall talent and impact as Messi. It's hard to comprehend but, as Michael Cox says, Messi is 3 world-class players in one.

Messi is the more complete footballer, but I've never seen anyone do what Ronaldo used to do before 99. The way he combined pace, body strength and technique was unbelievable. His knees were human though.

Ronaldo's steroid-use ruined his ligaments with unnatural growth. And he was nowhere near Messi level even in those years.

Right, and Messi didn't take stuff to help him grow more? that was why he injured so many times his thighs

why is this even a topic. ronaldo isn't even in the picture. messi all day long, at the top and in his own tier.

Claudio84 wrote:

Harmonica wrote:

Valkyrja wrote:


Messi is the more complete footballer, but I've never seen anyone do what Ronaldo used to do before 99. The way he combined pace, body strength and technique was unbelievable. His knees were human though.

Ronaldo's steroid-use ruined his ligaments with unnatural growth. And he was nowhere near Messi level even in those years.

Right, and Messi didn't take stuff to help him grow more? that was why he injured so many times his thighs

Messi took HGH, legally, to get him to the normal levels with others. Ronaldo took steroids to get him in level above others. Why do you think he was a physical beast at age 19, compared to other players in their peak?

legally doped is still doped.

Whereas other players had to dope to get better than others, messi had to dope to reach the "normal level" of others. Would that be an accurate summation of your argument harmonica?

Either way, he got hormon treatment in order to acquire the physique suitable for a professional footballer.

Naturally, he wouldn't have made it at top level due to his physical predisposition, without artificial help.

That is the very definition of doping.

Don't call me James wrote:

The Demon of Carthage wrote:Being runner-up is now considered a trophy? That's just sad.

It is a much bigger and more difficult achievement than not getting out of the group.

Ultimately, only taking the trophy home matters. The rest are all losers whether they crashed out from the group stage or the final.

This is why I never understood why would anybody list being a runner-up as a trophy. It's beyond sad. I feel bad for whoever does it.

I know Harmonica's arguments are ridiculous, but he does  have a point re Messi vs all time greats even if he restricts his list of all time greats to just 5 or 6. (Now that in itself is a joke particularly with the two most successful NTs, Germany and Italy, not having anyone on his comparison list.

His point is valid when you look at Cruff. I don't think anyone will disagree that he is an all time great yet he never won an NT trophy. He was runner up twice.

So maybe Messi because of his individual and team accomplishments might make the list someday, but to say as he seems to be that Messi is the greatest player ever is simply naive.

Ronaldo used sreroids? Isn't it this same ronaldo who was beasting at 16, being top scorer in south america scoring (58 in 56 games) with golazo's everywhere and was the undisputed best player and top scorer scoring 30 goals at 17 in the dutch league? Before the aclaimed steroids usage and yet he was never caught? Yet, I still see small tin players everywhere I look on TV?
just when I tought I heard it all on GL.

Harmonica wrote:Messi's national career at this point is hardly inferior to anyone:

National career highs:
Messi @28
WC14 runner-up, Golden Ball
CA15 runner-up, MVP
CA07 runner-up, Best Young Player
Olympic Gold, (no individual awards, involved 9/9 goals on the field)
WC05u20 champion, Golden Ball

Let me add Gerd Müller, as I feel sad for him getting left out as he just celebrated his 70th birthday:

- World Cup 1974 winner
- Euro 1972 winner
- Euro 1972 top scorer
- World Cup 1970 top scorer (10 goals in 6 matches)

All in all he scored 14 goals in the two World Cups he played in and 16 goals in his 12 Euro matches. During his 62 caps in his 8 years with the German NT, he scored 68 goals altogether. He retired from the German NT at age 28 just after the World Cup 1974.

R9 was flashy and faster but at everything else messi is better. It doesnt matter if you dribble 4 players by feints and tricks or just simply direction changing. So if at getting past players they are same at what R9 was better? It was speed and flashy dribbling ok. But lets not understmate messi's speed.he was super fast when he was 19. Just see his Getafe goal. Now at 28 he lost his speed and uses other abilities. I dont have any idea what R9 would use after he loses his speed. He was dependent on speed too much

Well I only talked about speed and dribbling. I didnt talk about playmaking passing and other abilities of Messi. So lets not underestimate unflashy messi.he is just as good as flashy players.controlling the ball at full speed so close to your feet is insane technique as well.he doest need speed to dribble

I bet R9 could not do a thing like this without his speed

Jafo wrote:R9 was flashy and faster but at everything else messi is better. It doesnt matter if you dribble 4 players by feints and tricks or just simply direction changing. So if at getting past players they are same at what R9 was better? It was speed and flashy dribbling ok. But lets not understmate messi's speed.he was super fast when he was 19. Just see his Getafe goal. Now at 28 he lost his speed and uses other abilities. I dont have any idea what R9 would use after he loses his speed. He was dependent on speed too much

Well I only talked about speed and dribbling. I didnt talk about playmaking passing and other abilities of Messi. So lets not underestimate unflashy messi.he is just as good as flashy players.controlling the ball at full speed so close to your feet is insane technique as well

welcome to GL mate

The thing is, being 'the best' means that you're literally the best at everything (passing, shooting, dribbling, heading, game reading, vision, decision making, positioning, crossing,...). It's impossible to find someone who's good at everything because everybody's got weaknesses.

This is why the question "who's the best of all-time?" is irrelevant and doesn't make any sense.

As far as Messi is concerned, I can safely say that he's the best player I have ever seen when it comes to passing. His passes are insanely accurate, and as a result, he can create a chance out of thin air for his teammates.

Everything else remains debatable because there are many all-time greats that happen to be better than him in some of other categories.

As for R9, he's hands down the best CF in the history of the game. The CFs playing today would look like amateurs next to him.