Ronaldo vs Messi

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Post by Bankz Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:34 pm

Lol, and by your logic iniesta will be more remembered than the maldini himself, afterall he's won more titles than maldini or that iniesta will be more remembered than cruyff, R9 and Zico because he won more collective titles? or will torres and villa be more remembered than R9 because they won the CL, had more league titles to go along with the WC? Or that david villa will be remembered more than van basten because he won the world cup and van basten didn't?
Now, weather the award favours forwards or not is irrelevant to the argument because there are midfielders who've won it inspite of GOAT forwards in their time like zidane and figo
and defenders who've been nominated (or won) inspite of other great forwards in their time like canavaro, carlos and maldini himself amongst many others, hell, even keepers like kopke, kahn, and neuer have gotten their recognition too inspite of great forwards playing in their time.. So bringing up such arguments such as collective titles alone without factoring their individual performances is silly at best, moreso when the other player being talked about has won all the trophies there is to win in club football.
Saying that individual awards doesn't hold much weight in terms of ones career over time is downright ignorant to say the least. If u really think iniesta will be more remembered than ronaldo then I also bet gotze, villa, torres and will be remembered more than CR7, RC, baggio and I also guess pique will be more remembered than maldini and guys like platini too.
I haven't seeing or heard of any trully great player who has been referenced based on just his collective titles alone without factoring their individual dominance, but I can show u so many players who are greatly remembered despite them not winning much on the collective front.
When u hear names like zico, baggio, maldini, cruyff, gerd muller and even messi himself, I bet what comes to mind, first is their individual dominance (individual awards), records and capability not their CL wins or world cup wins.
But who knows, to you iniesta might even be more remembered than cruyff himself or perharps even the great R9.

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Post by Donuts Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:23 pm

I'm arguing who had a better career.
the goal in a football teams is to win trophies
iniesta won more trophies than ronaldo

iniesta had a better career

wanna argue whose the better footballer up to you, as i said they cannot be compared but one thing you can compare is the silverware

also can't for the life of me finish any of your posts you need to learn to space your sht out it's just a blur of lines.
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Post by El Messico Wed Nov 04, 2015 12:12 am

DuringTheWar wrote:Is Ronaldo better than Iniesta? Just yes or no. Yes or no.
Yes, but he is not better than Xavi. I'd say he's the same level as Xavi, and a step above Iniesta. All are very close to each other, and it's not clear-cut by any means.

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Post by FennecFox7 Wed Nov 04, 2015 7:53 am

Why are we comparing a forward to two midfielders?? seriously??

this best player thing is bullshit because of thay, you might as well compare ronaldo or messi to pique or ramos then :facepalm:

i only have a problem when people say ronaldo is not capable of having excellent overall play and skill. he already has that, hes just a *bleep* egoistical scumbag on the field and only cares about statistics
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Post by Clutch Wed Nov 04, 2015 8:14 am

The only attribute I can think of where Ronaldo can make a case in is being a better goal scorer than messi. He literally has no weakness when it comes to that.

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Post by Bankz Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:13 am

No! Messi is equally a better goal scorer as proven by stats too. Plus ronaldo has been more fortunate with injuries over the past 8 years..
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Post by Clutch Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:19 am

Have you seen messi take a pk? hmm

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Post by Freeza Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:21 am

Clutch wrote:Have you seen messi take a pk? hmm


He's better at penalties than Ronaldo is at free kicks. I'd take Messi's set piece abillity over Ronaldo's anyday.
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Post by Bankz Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:28 am

Missi vs missiano? I certainly know who I'll take
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Post by Clutch Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:30 am

Freeza wrote:
Clutch wrote:Have you seen messi take a pk? hmm


He's better at penalties than Ronaldo is at free kicks. I'd take Messi's set piece abillity over Ronaldo's anyday.
I was obviously kidding about pks but in terms of ability in scoring I got Ronaldo. He's an aerial threat, messi is not. Ronaldo can smash a 25 yarder with his left, you wont see Messi doing that with his right.

Ronaldo's freekicks are laughable, dont know what happened.

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Post by Harmonica Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:30 am

FennecFox7 wrote:Why are we comparing a forward to two midfielders?? seriously??

this best player thing is bullshit because of thay, you might as well compare ronaldo or messi to pique or ramos then :facepalm:

i only have a problem when people say ronaldo is not capable of having excellent overall play and skill. he already has that, hes just a *bleep* egoistical scumbag on the field and only cares about statistics
Cronaldo has never been about skill, but rinse and repeat, based on the super team working the chances him over and over again.

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Based on skill below average goal scorer, passer and average dribbler, which means he actually doesn't bring much positive to the team, because he takes so much maintenance from the team.

Oh yeah and Messi certainly is the better freekick and penalty taker than Cronaldo. Only thing Cronaldo is better is headers, and that only based on height.
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Post by Clutch Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:44 am

Since I'm talking about goal scoring, only the top graph is relevant which only refers to in-play goals percentages? Thats kinda specific. By that graph, Messi nor Ronaldo are the best in goal scoring. So if thats your argument, congrats, you backed it up.

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Post by Harmonica Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:49 am

Factor in how marked player Messi is, and he's easily the best scorer of all-time.

Ronaldo vs Messi - Page 3 Morris-feature-messi-31

Laughing
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Post by Bankz Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:55 am

Between them both, who's more likely to get a chance in a game or who's likely to get more chances? Who ever is better at this is probably the better scorer as it has to do with their off the ball movement which is one of the most important ingredient in a forwards skill-set, seeing as their goal scoring statistics are more or less thesame.. So whoever is likely to get more chances in a game is more likely going to score more, hence the better scorer, In my opinion at least.
So, who has the more chances per game?
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Post by Lucifer Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:16 am

Comparing Diva to team player huh typical GL I must say. Both are different and both require different skill sets
Diva- requires ability to poach and live on others contribution while abusing and mocking them and always making angry gesture towards them if they don't cross and give u a easy tap in
Team player- requires abilities to create goals for others at same time scoring them. Attracting defenders with godly dribbling and allowing others to run through defence and provide a magic final ball. Also score once in awhile wonder goals dribbling past whole team.
So who wins. My answer is no one. Both are best. Ronaldo has all the skills and requirements of being Diva while messi has of team player. RESPECT BOTH U IGNORANT POSES

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Post by Valkyrja Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:33 am

Bankz wrote:No! Messi is equally a better goal scorer as proven by stats too. Plus ronaldo has been more fortunate with injuries over the past 8 years..


Ronaldo might be a better pure goalscorer. His arsenal is much more complete: left foot, right foot, headers, long shots. He is IMO the most dangerous player in the penalty box. Messi is more skilled with the ball at his feet. You won't see Messi score a 35m screamer and you won't see Ronaldo score after dribbling from half way line
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Post by El Messico Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:55 am

Messi is a better finisher than Ronaldo though. Ronaldo is more dangerous inside the penalty box because of his drive and positioning.

Look at this finish from Messi:

https://gfycat.com/TerrificAmusedCats

There is not another player in the world who can pull that off with such little time to react.

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Post by El Messico Wed Nov 04, 2015 12:00 pm

Another favorite of mine:

http://gfycat.com/PerfectRawFlyingfox

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Post by Harmonica Wed Nov 04, 2015 12:37 pm

Messi is better goal scorer anywhere in the pitch.

Ronaldo vs Messi - Page 3 Morris-feature-messi-pitch-graphic
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Post by Valkyrja Wed Nov 04, 2015 12:55 pm

El Messico wrote:Messi is a better finisher than Ronaldo though. Ronaldo is more dangerous inside the penalty box because of his drive and positioning.

Look at this finish from Messi:

https://gfycat.com/TerrificAmusedCats

There is not another player in the world who can pull that off with such little time to react.


That's debatable. Ronaldo is also one hell of a finisher
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Post by The Franchise Wed Nov 04, 2015 1:49 pm

DuringTheWar wrote:Are you trying to make the question seem more complicated than it actually is because Ronaldo is better?


Or maybe I just dont understand your over simplistic way of rating players.


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Post by DuringTheWar Wed Nov 04, 2015 2:17 pm

The Franchise wrote:
DuringTheWar wrote:Are you trying to make the question seem more complicated than it actually is because Ronaldo is better?


Or maybe I just dont understand your over simplistic way of rating players.




So you have never said one player was better than another unless they do exactly the same things on the pitch?
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Post by Mr Nick09 Wed Nov 04, 2015 2:18 pm

Another way to look at this argument, and that was almost touched upon in the last page, is asking which player contributed more to their team success throughout their career on top of their individual performances.

Answer will easily be messi. And before i hear about how messi played for a stacked team and so on, just remember that its a TEAM game. Everyone contributing and sacrificing. CR truly did play for himself never sacrificing for his team, despite all he quality players he was surrounded by in Madrid. If your so called best player is out of sync with the rest on one phase on the game, it's not going to cut in modern football. Madrid never reached their potential with him and while you can argue that the team could have been built differently reality is that even n our current state he could have done more for the team but he made the choice not to.
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Post by The Franchise Wed Nov 04, 2015 2:22 pm

No. I mean we can all see Cristiano is a better player than Martin Montoya, despite doing very different things.

But when we speak about players of the quality of Iniesta, its a totally different story, surely.

I can only say one thing I already indicated, which is if im at the park and I need to pick my own team from stratch, I will pick Iniesta before I pick Cristiano if I want to win the game.

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Post by DuringTheWar Wed Nov 04, 2015 2:26 pm

The Franchise wrote:No. I mean we can all see Cristiano is a better player than Martin Montoya, despite doing very different things.

But when we speak about players of the quality of Iniesta, its a totally different story, surely.

I can only say one thing I already indicated, which is if im at the park and I need to pick my own team from stratch, I will pick Iniesta before I pick Cristiano if I want to win the game.



Ok I get that, but then you can't rank the best players, unless you put them into groups based on roles.
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Post by The Franchise Wed Nov 04, 2015 2:39 pm

That doesnt upset me very much, I am not that much into ranking players in the first place. I think you can pick 3 different players, rank them as much we like, and on a given day/week/month/season the guy we ranked last did alot better than the other 2. That's football, thats how it can be.

The only reason I commented on this thread is because comparing Cristiano to Messi is such a big thing in today's football and I just dont understand it. I think Messi is another level kind of player, one you see every 20 years or more. You have to dig so deep to find the minor flaws in his game. Cristiano is not like this.

I have little idea why the comparison to Iniesta was even thrown out here.
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