The Procession of Plight

Also, do we actually know, and have proof for, that most of "them" have "no respect for our culture"?

Also, what's "our culture"?

Drinking beer

No, i'm not saying they should die in Syria... I just don't understand (as it's been said in this thread already) why the whole burden has to fall on EU, more specifically the countries where they first arrive (hungary, turkey, greece) and why more countries are not doing anything to help, and why we are criticized when we are trying to do the responsible thing.

Why are many of the migrants refusing to give a fingerprint? What is there to hide? Why are many of them shouting "Allah Akhbar" in the streets of Budapest? There are too many dangerous people coming in with the real refugees and the consequences will be dire if this is not handled properly. Many have refused food and water because of their faith. They need to be properly screened. Women and children should have right of passage first; but younger, visibly healthy and well-off males, most of whom are backpacking, damaging infrastructure, shouting obscenities, showing no respect for our women, locals, our laws, and just flooding through while country shopping for an eventual destination.

Look, I think Orban is a dickhead. I'm an atheist and i've never supported him or his fascist Fidesz party, and I think it's commendable and respectable that you are helping the children integrate. I also fully agree that the real war refugees need our help and support. This should be a world issue, but it is not that, and Hungary has already been struggling. Tensions in this country were already high beforehand - and we are not a large, rich, powerful country like Germany, who are able to handle this situation much better than we currently are.

Our people are currently helping out in any way we can, but our government is hindering them. I don't agree with the manner that Orban/Fidesz has been treating the migrants, but I do agree 100% that encouraging more migrants to come to EU, especially through Hungary, is not the right answer. It will be a continued trend, if encouraged, for years to come. We are expecting 40,000 more to come through Hungary in the coming week.. How many millions of "refugees" will eventually illegally come through at this rate? There is a fence being built at the Serbian border (eta for completion is 9/15) Tensions will just keep increasing. Respect the laws, respect the land you're invading, and respect legal immigration, or go elsewhere.

How would any developed muslim countries react if a horde of Christian refugees were to flood their lands illegally and demand a bunch of shit?? Beggars can't be choosers.

LOOK AT ALL THOSE WOMEN AND CHILDREN !!!!!!!!!!

All men, in their prime age, that can fight and build their nation...but why would they do it when EU has rolled the red carpet and will feed and take care of them for doing nothing ???

EU is the end of Europe. Merkel is the cancer. Sweden is an embarrassment.

Proud of my EE buddies like Hungary, Czech, Poland and Russia for holding tight so far and fighting for their beliefs instead of caring about what others think of them and being PC.

Not sure if serious.

Certainly hope not.

Sepi, a couple of points:

1) That's one photo, not a statistic;
2) Even in that photo, like half of those "men" are kids, they're like 16ish, I really don't expect them to take up arms against terrorists at an age I was too afraid to tell a girl I liked her.
3) With current law in many EU countries there is hardly a legal way to enter a country to then apply for asylum, which makes the journey to Europe bloody tedious, and dangerous, making women less likely to make it. Also it's easier to move one or two people across a border illegally. Many women come with kids, making them much harder to sneak across. So men just have it easier, and young men are less likely to have a family preventing them from leaving (and a fair couple of them are probably just jerks having abandoned people depending on them, yes)
4) Even men probably deserve a chance for asylum
5) "PC" really has become this empty catch-all term everyone from moderate Republicans to hardcore Aryan Brotherhood fanatics use to describe every statement where someone is told to please stop using the n-word or calling for genocide, so we might as well all just stop using it.
6) If the entirety of the EU actually acted in a coordinated manner, this would be a very solvable issue.
7) Of course Merkel is cancer, she's still counting on eventually getting the entirety of Europe to obey the Dublin agreement again, which conveniently places the burden of refugee migration on the countries with non-EU borders, and the only non-EU border Germany has is with bloody Switzerland. But that doesn't mean you're right. And the company you've chosen for yourself isn't exactly the sparkly bright bastion of human rights.

I think the problem with debates on this kind of thing is people give a opinion based on how imagration affects them and their country. where I live we have big problems with housing. schools being way over crowded. and a heath servis that's on its knees . and around 30% of the problem is down to a massive increase of imagrants. so I don't want to add to that problem. now some people might look down on me for saying that but the truth is I have to look out for my family first. I think you shouldn't judge people for their opinions on this because we don't live in their house.

futbol wrote:

What I don't want is Germany to look more and more like this permanently:



If needed, this stabilization process should be accelerated by military forces by cleaning up these regions from all plebs once and for all.

What exactly are you trying to say here? It's a bunch of men, women and children boarding a train. Does this somehow disgust you ?...

Unique wrote:I think the problem with debates on this kind of thing is people give a opinion based on how imagration affects them and their country. where I live we have big problems with housing. schools being way over crowded. and a heath servis that's on its knees . and around 30% of the problem is down to a massive increase of imagrants. so I don't want to add to that problem. now some people might look down on me for saying that but the truth is I have to look out for my family first. I think you shouldn't judge people for their opinions on this because we don't live in their house.

Your profile says you live in England. If you live in an area that is poor in England, that's not because your country is piss-poor and immigrants are stealing all your shit, it's because of a lack of political will to change it; it's probably a peripheral region, or a formerly industrial region that has yet to recover from Thatcher.

Not saying it's not bad. But you need to look further, the fact that not everyone in Europe is rich, doesn't mean that Europe as a whole doesn't have resources to spare. And even if we didn't, we're talking about people fleeing a war zone that is spiced up by constant terrorism. Basically anything that doesn't entail being murdered is a step up for them, and I think we can, and should, provide that.

Again, I'm perfectly willing to believe that some things suck where you are. I just don't think said suckage will be influenced by the amount of immigrants entering the country in a meaningful way.

VivaStPauli wrote:

Unique wrote:I think the problem with debates on this kind of thing is people give a opinion based on how imagration affects them and their country. where I live we have big problems with housing. schools being way over crowded. and a heath servis that's on its knees . and around 30% of the problem is down to a massive increase of imagrants. so I don't want to add to that problem. now some people might look down on me for saying that but the truth is I have to look out for my family first. I think you shouldn't judge people for their opinions on this because we don't live in their house.

Your profile says you live in England. If you live in an area that is poor in England, that's not because your country is piss-poor and immigrants are stealing all your shit, it's because of a lack of political will to change it; it's probably a peripheral region, or a formerly industrial region that has yet to recover from Thatcher.

Not saying it's not bad. But you need to look further, the fact that not everyone in Europe is rich, doesn't mean that Europe as a whole doesn't have resources to spare. And even if we didn't, we're talking about people fleeing a war zone that is spiced up by constant terrorism. Basically anything that doesn't entail being murdered is a step up for them, and I think we can, and should, provide that.

Again, I'm perfectly willing to believe that some things suck where you are. I just don't think said suckage will be influenced by the amount of immigrants entering the country in a meaningful way.

england is a small place. a lot of it countryside. half of London is filthy rich so no inagrants will end up their. rich people and polititions like to welcome the imagrants but they wont have them live in the same street as them. use the same schools as them or use the world class private health care they use. so that part of england is out or bounds for them. the country side is made up of farms green fields and houses in the middle of nowhere so they wont end up there. so that only leaves the small citys and the erea around London that as luck would have it I live. the problem we have in england is they put to many of them in the same place.

Problem with England is too far along to be fixed now.

For years we allowed people to come into the country illegally, give them benefits that they wouldn't even give to people who have lived in the country for decades etc etc.

People are free to live where ever they like, the problem in England comes that none of these people wish to come to England to work, retire after working their whole lives or go to school/college or what ever.

They come because crossing the borders is incredibly easy to do and they get paid handsomely for doing nothing. It's not like it can be fixed now either it's too ingrained into society and too far along.

Although i don't like talking about this subject too much, as it's far too easy to toe the line between racism and not without actually meaning to.

Not like that isn't anything which hasn't already said a million times over either.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Problem with England is too far along to be fixed now.

For years we allowed people to come into the country illegally, give them benefits that they wouldn't even give to people who have lived in the country for decades etc etc.

People are free to live where ever they like, the problem in England comes that none of these people wish to come to England to work, retire after working their whole lives or go to school/college or what ever.

They come because crossing the borders is incredibly easy to do and they get paid handsomely for doing nothing. It's not like it can be fixed now either it's too ingrained into society and too far along.

Although i don't like talking about this subject too much, as it's far too easy to toe the line between racism and not without actually meaning to.

Not like that isn't anything which hasn't already said a million times over either.

id say that pretty much sums it up tbh.

Putting the politics and machinations aside, what countries like Germany are doing to help these people is extraordinary. Everyone helping out should be commended. I personally commend and admire what you're doing, Viva. That's awesome work, man.

What I think so many people forget (especially those in my own country) is that this is a humanitarian crisis. Shutting these people out and leaving them to a decidedly grim fate is not only morally bankrupt, but simply inhuman. Perhaps this was reality a millennium ago, but one would think that as a society, we may have evolved. I think we have for the most part, but I think the attitudes expressed not just in this thread, but in general to this topic show we still have quite a ways to go.

These folks are human beings who deserve dignity and a simple chance at a better life. The treatment they've received from some corners is simply a disgrace.

There have to be better solutions than simply closing borders and refusing to deal with something that's just not going to go away soon. I know there are better solutions to this issue. We just haven't thought of them yet and the tendency towards stereotype, prejudice, xenophobia and most abhorrently racism prevents that and remains prevalent.

McLewis wrote:Putting the politics and machinations aside, what countries like Germany are doing to help these people is extraordinary. Everyone helping out should be commended. I personally commend and admire what you're doing, Viva. That's awesome work, man.

What I think so many people forget (especially those in my own country) is that this is a humanitarian crisis. Shutting these people out and leaving them to a decidedly grim fate is not only morally bankrupt, but simply inhuman. Perhaps this was reality a millennium ago, but one would think that as a society, we may have evolved. I think we have for the most part, but I think the attitudes expressed not just in this thread, but in general to this topic show we still have quite a ways to go.

These folks are human beings who deserve dignity and a simple chance at a better life. The treatment they've received from some corners is simply a disgrace.

There have to be better solutions than simply closing borders and refusing to deal with something that's just not going to go away soon. I know there are better solutions to this issue. We just haven't thought of them yet and the tendency towards stereotype, prejudice, xenophobia and most abhorrently racism prevents that and remains prevalent.

Wanted to make this post for days.

Could not have said this any better.

Yeah, seconded, well put, McLewis.

McLewis wrote:Putting the politics and machinations aside, what countries like Germany are doing to help these people is extraordinary. Everyone helping out should be commended. I personally commend and admire what you're doing, Viva. That's awesome work, man.

What I think so many people forget (especially those in my own country) is that this is a humanitarian crisis. Shutting these people out and leaving them to a decidedly grim fate is not only morally bankrupt, but simply inhuman. Perhaps this was reality a millennium ago, but one would think that as a society, we may have evolved. I think we have for the most part, but I think the attitudes expressed not just in this thread, but in general to this topic show we still have quite a ways to go.

These folks are human beings who deserve dignity and a simple chance at a better life. The treatment they've received from some corners is simply a disgrace.

There have to be better solutions than simply closing borders and refusing to deal with something that's just not going to go away soon. I know there are better solutions to this issue. We just haven't thought of them yet and the tendency towards stereotype, prejudice, xenophobia and most abhorrently racism prevents that and remains prevalent.

The biggest problem is not how these people will get help.the problem is the middle east will make 10 times more people that need help like these. Something needs to be done to stop the wars and terror attacks.

Well certainly, I think they are equally huge problems. One caused the other, but they are both of the utmost importance.

Europe did not ask for this responsibility so I sympathize with that, but they have it nonetheless. I don't think they have to be alone in this though. This is a big planet and I think there are other countries who may be willing to help. There just needs to be sincere conversation and organization.

As for stopping the rot at its source, far easier said than done. Diplomacy has failed several times with regards to Syria while a lack for outright military engagement with ISIS has meant that it's likely not going anywhere anytime soon. I, for one, don't think war is the answer, but we can't negotiate with a group like that. Gotta think outside the box on that one.

It's funny that the refugee crisis only became a crisis when refugees started to enter mainland Europe. Crisis wasn't there when thousands were taking shelter in Turkey and Lebanon. Let's not pretend that the refugees ignored every other country and only decided to enter Germany or England. They actually want to rebuild their own country and taking shelter in already crippled countries like Lebanon won't help them achieve that.


I am massively proud of UK to let the refugees in. Hats off to Cameron for making that decision which I didn't expect. 20,000 is nothing. It's 10 families per town. 1/3 or so of Emirates stadium. On the other hand, shame on other countries who are rich enough to afford to let few in but won't even budge.

Yeah I read some articles on the NYTs about how Denmark are treating these refugees. I have to think that they are looking over at Sweden and that's perhaps influenced what they are doing now, but I really don't know enough about that situation to say for sure.

I did read that Turkey have spent like $8 billion dollars on caring for the refugees it's taken in. If that's true, my hat is off to them as well. That's an insane amount of money and resources to help out so many people that have been displaced.

RealGunner wrote:I am massively proud of UK to let the refugees in. Hats off to Cameron for making that decision which I didn't expect. 20,000 is nothing.

20,000 from UN refugee camps. It's worth noting he has slammed (or at least tried to) the door to the economic migrants trying to batter their way into the channel tunnel. Which apparently makes him evil fyi.

No country in their right minds would open the doors for a huge influx of third country people with no perspective whatsoever, even less so countries like Denmark, Sweden, Netherlands etc. who already have enough experience with that. Germany is all alone in this madness. Even the German Labor minister has already admitted that not even every 10th "refugee" ("economic emigrant" would be more appropriate) is qualified enough to find a job in Germany right now which everyone with common sense already knows. Polls among the emigrants reveal that 30 % have either no qualification whatsoever or at best an elementary school qualification. Even a Syrian University degree (which the majority doesn't have of course) means f all in Germany. My mom works in a hospital. The cleaning ladies there are all women with University degrees from African countries, Ukraine etc. which the German industry simply doesn't acknowledge. Some of them speak like 5 languages and they are cleaning toilets. The people coming now aren't even anywhere near that educational level.

If you are going to call upon humanity and ignore the economic part, I'll ask again where we draw the line then. There are MILLIONS of people who are living literally in shit. How many do we let in? 1 million? 5? 10? 20? 50? Everyone?

futbol wrote:No country in their right minds would open the doors for a huge influx of third country people with no perspective whatsoever, even less so countries like Denmark, Sweden, Netherlands etc. who already have enough experience with that. Germany is all alone in this madness. Even the German Labor minister has already admitted that not even every 10th "refugee" ("economic emigrant" would be more appropriate) is qualified enough to find a job in Germany right now which everyone with common sense already knows. Polls among the emigrants reveal that 30 % have either no qualification whatsoever or at best an elementary school qualification. Even a Syrian University degree (which the majority doesn't have of course) means f all in Germany. My mom works in a hospital. The cleaning ladies there are all women with University degrees from African countries, Ukraine etc. which the German industry simply doesn't acknowledge. Some of them speak like 5 languages and they are cleaning toilets. The people coming now aren't even anywhere near that educational level.

If you are going to call upon humanity and ignore the economic part, I'll ask again where we draw the line then. There are MILLIONS of people who are living literally in shit. How many do we let in? 1 million? 5? 10? 20? 50? Everyone?

Once again, and absolutely spot on post by my favourite poster in history of internet.
I'd like to add to it:

Everyone only sees short-term and not the potential disasterous long-term issues that could arise from rolling the red carpet to hundreds of thousands of people with completely different culture/beliefs and way of living could cause.

There has already been petitions to ban Oktoberfest in Munich because it offends Msulim refugees (source: The Great Richard Dawkins), on over a highway in German, there is a banner installed whose German translation reads: "Your children will either believe in Allah or die". Rape rates in Sweden has done up tenfold since the country opened its doors to refugees from 3rd world countries many years ago.....BEING NICE DOES NOT EQUAL TO THE WELFARE AND BENEFIT OF THE COUNTRY.

There was a lot of trouble in Hungary and they've started protecting border, and Serbia are now taking notice, and Croatia has woken up too.

Europe is Europe.

My theory is....unless you're physically , INDIVIDUALLY, gladly ready to host a refugee/refugee family and pay for them...then you have no business tweeting saying #refugeeswelcome just to look good in public.

This is a serious long-term issue, as opposed to just a PR practice.


Question is:
Do you want to appear nice to the rest of the world, or do you want to protect the best interest of YOUR PEOPLE and YOUR COUNTRY's long term future ?

External appeal or long-term internal stability ?

Make your pick.

For me , and I say it because I 've affinity towards this country , it's sad to note how Hungary became again a distressing word.
We can turn around the matter in many ways, but basically the Iron Curtain is raising again , against all those old words said in that 1989 ..." because the Europe is only one thing" . lol
A wall is like a barbed wire, just higher, it is less frightening but probably it is even sadder. Besides Mr. Orban made it exactly of barbed wire, just to  evoke better the Holocaust camps.
It is not the symbol of arrogance or other. It is the symbol of fear, exactly like the DDR who feared the contagion of Western freedom.
It's the typical dusky hue to mark a century of Hungarian history (the Magyarország , said in their obscure language )  , just torn by the glare of 1956, glare readily suppressed. Basically the Hungarians are a particular folk. They don't belong neither Slavic people nor Latin people,they've a weird and unique language derivated by a presumptive Ungro-Finnish log.  A long history of dominations  and divisions ( always hated the Russians , and that 1956 represented also the revenge against the Muscovite Empire).  
Hungary is always  been a country hard to amalgamate , assimilate with others, always mistrustful to open up to others but extremely proud of itself.
This mix of traditionalism, nationalism, usual deep closure in themselves, fear / aversion towards the other , even in this case it  has overwhelmed the intelligence, culture, the intellectual liveliness of the Hungarian  elites. Because although his contradictions, historically it's a country with relevant cultural heritage .
Rejecting  refugees for rejecting  everything, Brussels, Berlin, Moscow.
Us or them .
For this reason Orban has real consensus. A country always afraid to open up to others supports the nazionalist and anti-immigration policy of a prime minister who feels the competition with his neo-Nazis opponent. Because Orban has consensus but his opponents are even worse, they're the Jobbik, the neo-Nazis, who gets the 20% (!) . It creates a stodgy battle on who says the worst things.
The Hungary self-excluding from Europe is a pang, a pang who the current Hungary governors take responsability and hopefully sooner or later they' ll pay the price. Orban must be stopped.

I'm all for giving aid to refugees. But many refugees' don't want to stay in broke ass European countries. They are targeting those rich eu countries. Can they really be considered as refugees? Illegal immigrants is what I will call them.

Well this Eurabia shizz is really the least of my worries. Religion is no big deal when you put it in front of helping refugees. Extremists are everywhere in every religion. If it gets out of hand then it'll have to be fixed as much as possible. Simple.