Re: The Official WWE Thread - Part 22

by Onyx Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:28 pm

Nah it wasn't about connecting with the crowd. It's that HHH called Rollins a great character and chose him to talk about personality, when he's nothing more than a generic heel. If they wanted someone to talk about character, it should have been someone like Bray Wyatt or Ambrose. Guys who remotely happen to be larger than life.

by Tomwin Lannister Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:34 pm

Except heavy gimmicks like Wyatts, or Ambrose being mentally unstable doesn't connect with anybody. Nobody is sitting at home tuning in to a WWE programme for the first time thinking 'yeah, I see where Wyatt is coming from when he talks about supernatural stuff and people's souls'

Or 'Tbf, Dean has a point when he twitches around and rambles about stuff then launches himself outside the ring'

The whole tweet was about connecting. Tbf Brays original gimmick (which was so much better) made sense. A lot of blue collar muricans could have related to what he was talking about in his early promo's. Now he's just being shoe horned in to the new supernatural undertaker type role.

by Casciavit Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:43 pm

They've ruined both of Dean and Bray's characters.

Bray was the best thing going heading into WM30, he had an aura rarely seen before. But they decided to job him out to Cena and he didn't recover until he beat Ambrose like 10 times. He regained his mystique against the Undertaker, but ended up doing the job again.

Ambrose was badass up until NOC, where he returned from his movie. Vince decided to make him a loony character instead of the vengeful no *bleep* given Dirty Dean. Though his character has gotten better compared to a few months ago.

I think the best way to fix it, is by turning Bray face and having him rage against the machine and turning Dean into a joker-esque heel.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:43 pm

Casciavit wrote:They've ruined both of Dean and Bray's characters.

I wonder who could have predicted this Laughing

by Tomwin Lannister Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:45 pm

It's funny because in trying to make ambrose an unhinged badass lunatic, they took away everything that actually worked for him.

His SHIELD look and demeanour was 20x better and suited what WWE are trying to make him in to now.

He had that cool crazy thing going on and it worked. Now he's that bloke in a wife beater with a mop haircut who looks hyper and annoying if anything.

by Onyx Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:49 pm

Thing is though trying to relate to the crowd is no excuse to be bland. Rollins has no character whatsoever other than being a generic heel.

I'd rather watch a show involving guys like Austin, The Rock, Foley, DX, Taker, Kane etc over a show with Rollins, Cesaro and Zayn (bland relatable guys). WWE's always been about larger than life personalities. If I wanted to watch an ongoing soap with relatable everyday characters I'd watch EastEnders. hmm

by Tomwin Lannister Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:53 pm

You are confusing personalities with gimmicks. Rollins character does have a personality

He has a superiority complex, he seeks other wrestlers approval. He's cocky, he's arrogant and he has an ego that gets him in to trouble. He acts entitled, he hides behind other people when it benefits him but again his ego can hinder that. He realises despite his superiority complex that he can't go toe to toe with some people so he cowers and uses whatever help he can get.

That is a personality.

Referring to yourself in 3rd person and dropping a crowd pandering line, making fire shoot out of the arena and being carried to the crowd in a coffin because you're an undead zombie with supernatural powers is not a bunch of personality traits. That is a gimmick/gimmicks

Somebody like Taker (dead man) is bland as shit. He doesn't display 1/10th of the personality traits somebody like Rollins does.

I am the undertaker, you WILL Rest In Peace. Lol.

by M99 Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:00 pm

Come on mate, Undertaker's a legend. Would not really call him bland. His Ministry of Darkness run was full of personality as was his American Badass. Then later he became such a legend that his presence alone and a few catchphrases were enough to make everyone mark out.

I still have high hopes for Bray and Dean. It's just that when WWE is fixed on pushing a certain number of stars they forget about others. I hope Bray wins against reigns (pipe dream I know), beats another big guy like Orton and then moves on to the title.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:03 pm

His original deadman run with Bearer was great but if you look at his 2nd run after being buried alive by Kane it was a bit like Tom said.

But as you say by that point he had cemented himself and everybody loved him so it never mattered, plus his matches were always awesome.

by Tomwin Lannister Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:05 pm

Taker was great. But we're talking about personality. The dead man taker everybody has come to know as a legend hasn't got any personality whatsoever. He has a legendary GIMMICK and a collection of great matches. But strictly talking about personality he simply didn't have one.

Neither to a lot of the GOATs. Because it was all about the gimmick.

MT is saying Rollins has no personality, but unlike a pretend dead man or a pretend monster who only ever shows 1 emotion I.E anger, he is personality personified.

by Tomwin Lannister Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:06 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:His original deadman run with Bearer was great but if you look at his 2nd run after being buried alive by Kane it was a bit like Tom said.

But as you say by that point he had cemented himself and everybody loved him so it never mattered, plus his matches were always awesome.

That's what i'm saying, he is an all time great. But in terms of personality, the undertaker everybody knows went about 10 years without showing any personality traits whatsoever.

Look at Brock, personality of a dead fish. But his gimmick, which is based on his real life achievements make him a current GOAT with an aura around him. But again, it's certainly not his personality that does it. He's either mad at somebody, or he's smiling because he's just hurt somebody.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:07 pm

American Badass/Deadman Taker had loads of personality IMO.

That feud with Hogan where he hogtied him to his bike Laughing

by M99 Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:21 pm

looool I have been wishing for biker return since 2009.

WHA-BOOOOOOO rofl

by Onyx Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:21 pm

To me personality is about being unique and standing out. Whether that be with an over the top gimmick like the Undertaker, or a lesser character like Austin who isn't OTT.

Cowardly, has an ego, cocky and arrogant are simply traits of a heel. If that is all someone offers, then well imo that's a generic heel. In fact 90% of heels in the past 5 years were exactly that. Guys like The Miz, Tyson Kidd, DiBiase, Del Rio, Ziggler, Rhodes etc. But to get to the next level you need a persona, character or a gimmick. That's what Rollins lacks imo.

by Tomwin Lannister Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:26 pm

If everybody has ridiculous / OTT gimmicks then nobody stands out and what you're left with is more outlandish shit comedy segments and a freak show.

Imagine the GOAT that is Austin, and all the funny, crazy, awesome shit he done. But apply that to a show where everybody else he interacted with was really weird, dressed in clown uniforms and animal costumes and rambling incoherently. And others were like Hacksaw Jim Duggan or wtf he's called and just kept screaming in Austins face going EY OOOOOOOOOOH.

It would ruin everything, there needs to be a balance. Atm they probably do need some more lively gimmicks, but Rollins is perfectly fine as is and the day I tune in to see a bunch of el torrito's and 20 people with pseudo supernatural powers running rampant, is the day I stop watching for good.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:27 pm

M99 wrote:looool I have been wishing for biker return since 2009.

WHA-BOOOOOOO

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOO there were all about say it when they realised lmaoo.

Don't make them like that anymore hmm

by Jay29 Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:42 pm

I still think that the first thing they messed up with Wyatt was separating him from Rowan and Harper. He comes in with this cult leader gimmick and supposed ability to brainwash people but then loses his only followers and goes solo and suddenly he hasn't got any credibility anymore. He became less of a genuine threat and more like a random raving lunatic you find on street corners.

Rollins is fine but I'd like to see this Authority stuff end since it's getting a bit repetitive.

by Tomwin Lannister Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:45 pm

GoonerJay29 wrote:I still think that the first thing they messed up with Wyatt was separating him from Rowan and Harper. He comes in with this cult leader gimmick and supposed ability to brainwash people but then loses his only followers and goes solo and suddenly he hasn't got any credibility anymore. He became less of a genuine threat and more like a random raving lunatic you find on street corners.

Rollins is fine but I'd like to see this Authority stuff end since it's getting a bit repetitive.

Breaking up the family shortly after they beat the shield, and not 1 single family member benefited from it. = Retarded

Then sending Bray down the supernatural route = retarded.

His real life working class reject promo's were great and people could grasp them and they made sense and were unique

Now it's just nonsense.

by Onyx Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:49 pm

Not everybody has to have an OTT gimmick, they just need some form of a personality to make them stand out. The whole point of being a WWE superstar is about standing out and being larger than life. That message seems to have been lost in recent years where the roster is filling up with bland indy workhorse wrestlers. The most successful period in WWE history had characters and personalities from top to bottom on the roster.

by Tomwin Lannister Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:54 pm

And in the past, a lot of people absolutely loved generic Good vs Evil crap that people now can barely stand to watch. Fan favourites from 40 years ago are now cringey as *bleep* and would be jobbing on main event based on their gimmicks today.

Rollins is just fine as he is. Unless you want a stable full of larger than life John Cena characters, and then all of the heels would have to be monster heels or supernatural heels. Because there's no such thing as a larger than life cowardly heel.

by M99 Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:57 pm

GoonerJay29 wrote:I still think that the first thing they messed up with Wyatt was separating him from Rowan and Harper. He comes in with this cult leader gimmick and supposed ability to brainwash people but then loses his only followers and goes solo and suddenly he hasn't got any credibility anymore. He became less of a genuine threat and more like a random raving lunatic you find on street corners.

Rollins is fine but I'd like to see this Authority stuff end since it's getting a bit repetitive.

+1. I don't know why the hell they broke them up. Harper and Rowan got back together again last month and I hoped that was a sign of a full reunion but then Rowan got a 6 month injury smh.

And the problem with Bray imo is 100% booking. He cuts these amazing promos and vows to do some legit stuff and he does not end up backing his words.

Promises to end the legacy of Cena, expose his lies etc. CenaWinsLol.

Talks about his tough childhood and how the WWE World title will be his salvation. Loses.

Looks like a monster in the Royal Rumble, dominates everyone. Big Show and Kane throw him out so super Reigns looks strong when eliminating them.

Proclaims himself the new face of fear and vows to take the torch from Undertaker. Loses to Undertaker.

by Tomwin Lannister Wed Jul 08, 2015 7:00 pm

Hate it when they have people make stupid claims like ending Cena or whatever. Even if they win, they didn't achieve what their character wanted to. Losing just rapes their credibility even more.

I don't understand why Bray can't have an impact on somebody like Cena who has been stale for years. Why not have Cena coming off of a feud with Bray, win or lose, with an altered personality to show that Bray actually messed him up a bit. And obviously because a slight change in his *bleep* character has been long overdue.

by Onyx Wed Jul 08, 2015 7:12 pm

Imo most guys from the Attitude era would work today. Rock worked when he came back, Austin does, Undertaker, Kane, DX, New age outlaws etc all worked. Personality is something that will always be required in a superstar, no matter what era. In fact they had an entire episode of tough enough yesterday on characters where people picked out a random character from a hat and had to act it it out. Laughing

Also it's still possible to be cowardly while having some form of a character. Bray Wyatt runs away during feuds, gets chased etc.

by Onyx Wed Jul 08, 2015 7:15 pm

What Bray needs is a storyline where he takeover the WWE, kidnaps people etc etc. Would culminate with him winning the WWE title.

by Tomwin Lannister Wed Jul 08, 2015 7:16 pm

Bray is not even remotely a cowardly heel.

Again, you keep revolving around this. Rollins HAS a personality, and has personality traits that he shows whereas so, so many characters with gimmicks you're listing don't even have a real personality.

Your issue with Rollins is not his lack of personality, otherwise you'd HATE most of the gimmicky wrestlers you keep bringing up. Your issue is you think he's boring because he hasn't got an over the top gimmick. And in my opinion it's damn good he doesn't, because if everybody has an over the top gimmick then nobody stands out and it becomes stupid.

TL;DR Rollins character has a personality, fact. Either you don't like his personality or the fact he's not in a strange gimmick. But him having 'lack of personality' is not true.

by Onyx Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:21 pm

Nah, I think we just have a different definition of what personality is. To me personality in wrestling is about being unique and standing out. A gimmick/character in itself is a personality. Mick Foley had multiple personalities where he acted in a certain way, dressed differently etc. That's what a personality is in wrestling.

I can understand how Rollins 'shows' personality by being cocky or arrogant, but that isn't enough, it's what a generic/default heel does. What he needs is something to make him stand out.

In terms of Bray Wyatt, he does run away when faces chase him down, so he is cowardly on occasions.

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