Re: Barclay's Premier League discussion '13-'14 V10

by Robespierre Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:54 pm

Lol I have knew just now. I was convinced Hull was sure of EL spot

by Blue Barrett Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:55 pm

Natalie Portman wrote:It's all good. let people make excuses and convince themselves otherwise.

I remember back in February when I suggested we'll go on a long winning run, everyone said I am a typical deluded Liverpool fan, no way it's happening. Then it was apparently Man Utd bottling it, and getting lucky vs. Cardiff. Then it was apparently referee cs. west ham and we were gonna get found out vs. bigger teams (ala City and Chelsea). well one down ,one to go. Keep making excuses it's nice.

If it's so easy to challenge for the title with no European games, why hasn't a SINGLE team since Everton in 83-84 season done that in the league? Ye,Why? exactly, because it's a shit excuse out of the mouth of the biggest scumbag on earth since Hitler ala Mourinho. We've flushed a lot of turds at Anfield this season, and that classless terrible human being with his horrible football team, who has a history of bottling it at Anfield in big occasions, will be the last victims.

Can't wait for that game already, it's on weekend of my birthday.

but yea, apparently we're due a loss/imploding/lucky/shit/no fatigue/lucky with injuries etc etc.

Stop acting like anyone has an agenda against Liverpool. Calm down ffs.

Obviously you've deserved your success to this point, but you'll just be wearing Liverpool tinted glasses if you try to deny that having to play less games is not an advantage.

Tables turned, you'll be the one shouting at the top of your lungs about this Laughing

by Jay29 Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:57 pm

This is from the Premier League website:

There are three places in the UEFA Europa League available: the FA Cup winners will enter at the Group Stage; the fifth place team in the Barclays Premier League will enter at the Play-Off stage; and the Football League Cup winners will enter at the Q3 stage.

In the event the FA Cup winners are qualified for the UEFA Champions League the FA Cup runners-up will qualify, but in the place reserved for the lowest ranking Barclays Premier League representative.

The place with direct access to the Group Stage will be given to the club that finishes in the highest position in the Barclays Premier League of the clubs qualifying for the UEFA Europa League.

English winners of the UEFA Europa League will enter at the Group Stage, gaining an extra domestic place only if they fail to qualify through other means for the UEFA Champions League or UEFA Europa League. If the holders of the UEFA Europa League have already qualified for Europe, no extra domestic place will be gained.

Should the FA Cup winners, runners-up (if applicable) and the Football League Cup winners already have qualified for Europe, their place goes to the next best placed clubs in the Premier League.

Fair Play winners enter at the Qualifying round 1 stage.

This place will automatically go the three best-placed national associations in the UEFA Respect fair play rankings provided they achieve an average of 8.0 points or more. The top three associations will then be entitled to enter the club that has either won their domestic top-division fair play competition, or if they are already qualified, the runners-up and so forth.

http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/fans/faqs/who-qualifies-to-play-in-europe/

So for Hull to get into Europe, Arsenal will need to finish 4th. In that event, 5th and 6th will also qualify, but not 7th.

If Arsenal finish 5th and win the FA Cup, then it seems as if, though it's not mentioned in the above, 6th and 7th will qualify, but not the cup runners-up.

by RedOranje Sun Apr 13, 2014 11:10 pm

Blue Barrett wrote:
RedOranje wrote:We'd also have a significantly stronger and deeper squad, with more prestige, money, and game play on offer to tempt players in. Liverpool have had a great deal fewer fixtures but we also have a notably thinner squad due to having less funds and less draw without the CL.

You cannot simply whine about fixtures then ignore the benefits.
Did you actually just say "benefits" of playing more games?

And besides, facts are facts. By the end of the season you'll probably have played 15-20 less games than Chelsea. Let's act like that's not a significant advantage.

In that you can promise players game time that otherwise wouldn't be available yes, extra matches are indeed a small benefit.

Facts are facts, Chelsea have a much larger, and "better" squad than Liverpool thanks to the extra draw and money provided by the Champions League. It's both hilarious and a bit pitiful that you are attempting to claim that Chelsea being in the CL is somehow purely and only a detriment. Clubs wouldn't be judging their entire seasons off of making or not making top 4 if it was only a negative impact with the extra matches.

by Hapless_Hans Sun Apr 13, 2014 11:12 pm

RedOranje wrote:I responded to Chelsea fans and somehow that starts an argument between Arsenal and Bayern fans?

haha, no, we had that argument already going before you posted, a couple of pages back.

by RealGunner Sun Apr 13, 2014 11:17 pm

GoonerJay29 wrote:This is from the Premier League website:

There are three places in the UEFA Europa League available: the FA Cup winners will enter at the Group Stage; the fifth place team in the Barclays Premier League will enter at the Play-Off stage; and the Football League Cup winners will enter at the Q3 stage.

In the event the FA Cup winners are qualified for the UEFA Champions League the FA Cup runners-up will qualify, but in the place reserved for the lowest ranking Barclays Premier League representative.

The place with direct access to the Group Stage will be given to the club that finishes in the highest position in the Barclays Premier League of the clubs qualifying for the UEFA Europa League.

English winners of the UEFA Europa League will enter at the Group Stage, gaining an extra domestic place only if they fail to qualify through other means for the UEFA Champions League or UEFA Europa League. If the holders of the UEFA Europa League have already qualified for Europe, no extra domestic place will be gained.

Should the FA Cup winners, runners-up (if applicable) and the Football League Cup winners already have qualified for Europe, their place goes to the next best placed clubs in the Premier League.

Fair Play winners enter at the Qualifying round 1 stage.

This place will automatically go the three best-placed national associations in the UEFA Respect fair play rankings provided they achieve an average of 8.0 points or more. The top three associations will then be entitled to enter the club that has either won their domestic top-division fair play competition, or if they are already qualified, the runners-up and so forth.

http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/fans/faqs/who-qualifies-to-play-in-europe/

So for Hull to get into Europe, Arsenal will need to finish 4th. In that event, 5th and 6th will also qualify, but not 7th.

If Arsenal finish 5th and win the FA Cup, then it seems as if, though it's not mentioned in the above, 6th and 7th will qualify, but not the cup runners-up.

by Hapless_Hans Sun Apr 13, 2014 11:25 pm

RealGunner wrote:
Hapless_Hans wrote:
Lex wrote:
Not just Europe. Knocked out of the league cup back in September, knocked out of the FA cup in February, which is when your unbeaten run started

But I'm sure it's just a silly coincidence

yeah, it probably is.

What also is a silly coincidence is that Arsenal was leading the league while they were in all competitions, and then started to fall back after being knocked out of the league cup and the CL

No. Arsenal were leading the league table while in all the competitions when we had most if not all of our players fit. We lost our key core and dropped off in every competition one by one

Sure. But the point that started all this was that people were claiming Liverpool have had a 'big advantage' in the title race as they were 7th last year and have no European fixtures.

That is ridiculous, but they wouldn't stop.

Before, everyone was ridiculing Liverpool for the way other clubs snatch away the players they want to sign, etc. I mean even Wenger tried to prey on their star player, ffs, which arguably he only could dare because they couldn't offer CL football.
Obviously they were on the brink of bankruptcy too, ffs.
Now all of a sudden they're a 'sleeping giant' full of world class players who on top of it all can rest all week. Yeah sure.

Plus, since you've continuously been having CL football for 14 years, one could expect that by now you would have had AMPLE time and money to get together a squad and a way of rotating that deals with this extra amount of games.

by RealGunner Sun Apr 13, 2014 11:31 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:
RealGunner wrote:
Hapless_Hans wrote:
Lex wrote:
Not just Europe. Knocked out of the league cup back in September, knocked out of the FA cup in February, which is when your unbeaten run started

But I'm sure it's just a silly coincidence

yeah, it probably is.

What also is a silly coincidence is that Arsenal was leading the league while they were in all competitions, and then started to fall back after being knocked out of the league cup and the CL

No. Arsenal were leading the league table while in all the competitions when we had most if not all of our players fit. We lost our key core and dropped off in every competition one by one

Sure. But the point that started all this was that people were claiming Liverpool have had a 'big advantage' in the title race as they were 7th last year and have no European fixtures.

That is ridiculous, but they wouldn't stop.

Before, everyone was ridiculing Liverpool for the way other clubs snatch away the players they want to sign, etc. I mean even Wenger tried to prey on their star player, ffs, which arguably he only could dare because they couldn't offer CL football.
Obviously they were on the brink of bankruptcy too, ffs.
Now all of a sudden they're a 'sleeping giant' full of world class players who on top of it all can rest all week. Yeah sure.

Plus, since you've continuously been having CL football for 14 years, one could expect that by now you would have had AMPLE time and money to get together a squad and a way of rotating that deals with this extra amount of games.

None of that is relevant to me or the point I was making.

by Hapless_Hans Sun Apr 13, 2014 11:38 pm

RealGunner wrote:
Hapless_Hans wrote:
RealGunner wrote:

No. Arsenal were leading the league table while in all the competitions when we had most if not all of our players fit. We lost our key core and dropped off in every competition one by one

Sure. But the point that started all this was that people were claiming Liverpool have had a 'big advantage' in the title race as they were 7th last year and have no European fixtures.

That is ridiculous, but they wouldn't stop.

Before, everyone was ridiculing Liverpool for the way other clubs snatch away the players they want to sign, etc. I mean even Wenger tried to prey on their star player, ffs, which arguably he only could dare because they couldn't offer CL football.
Obviously they were on the brink of bankruptcy too, ffs.
Now all of a sudden they're a 'sleeping giant' full of world class players who on top of it all can rest all week. Yeah sure.

Plus, since you've continuously been having CL football for 14 years, one could expect that by now you would have had AMPLE time and money to get together a squad and a way of rotating that deals with this extra amount of games.

None of that is relevant to me or the point I was making.

I know, but it's an explanation why Lex and me were arguing in the first place

by Blue Barrett Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:09 am

RedOranje wrote:
Blue Barrett wrote:
RedOranje wrote:We'd also have a significantly stronger and deeper squad, with more prestige, money, and game play on offer to tempt players in. Liverpool have had a great deal fewer fixtures but we also have a notably thinner squad due to having less funds and less draw without the CL.

You cannot simply whine about fixtures then ignore the benefits.
Did you actually just say "benefits" of playing more games?

And besides, facts are facts. By the end of the season you'll probably have played 15-20 less games than Chelsea. Let's act like that's not a significant advantage.

In that you can promise players game time that otherwise wouldn't be available yes, extra matches are indeed a small benefit.

Facts are facts, Chelsea have a much larger, and "better" squad than Liverpool thanks to the extra draw and money provided by the Champions League. It's both hilarious and a bit pitiful that you are attempting to claim that Chelsea being in the CL is somehow purely and only a detriment. Clubs wouldn't be judging their entire seasons off of making or not making top 4 if it was only a negative impact with the extra matches.

You're completely missing the point of my posts.

I'm saying(and I thought it was obvious) that as it pertains to the league and the title race, it is definitely a disadvantage to have other games to play. For example, we'll be playing Atletico midweek with our first 11 while Liverpool recover even more and face our team that weekend who've had 2 days to rest. Most likely the same starting 11 bar Matic. And while playing Liverpool, we still have to keep in mind the Atletico second leg in 3 days time.

Only 2 weeks ago, it played a factor in us having to play Crystal Palace over the weekend and then play PSG midweek. Lost both matches.

Of course if we get the job done on both fronts, it'll only be to our benefit but you cannot deny the fatigue factor here.

by RedOranje Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:45 am

And you're missing mine. Chelsea and City have much deeper squads to cope with the extra matches, specifically because they have those extra competitions and matches with which to lure and keep satisfied said squad.

by iftikhar Mon Apr 14, 2014 2:09 am

Would have been an awesome Europa League with Arsenal, Spurs & ManU in it. Not to mention Fiorentina, Inter, Sociedad etc.

by DeletedUser#1 Mon Apr 14, 2014 4:22 am

It's amazing to see similarities of Rodgers' Liverpool to Ferguson's first title winning team back in early 90s.

Both teams had a genius c*nt in their teams, leading the way (Cantona and Suarez) , both teams were coming off almost quarter century droughts...both teams had incredibly loyal captains who maybe deserved to win more trophies in their playing days, but now on brink of finally winning a league title in their twighlight years (Bryan Robson and Gerrard), both managers extremely attacking and fan of dribbling and pace...a CB has stepped up to score very important goals in the season (Steve Bruce/Skrtel).....both teams very young and with room to improve.

OMG, Imagine if Rodgers indeed is the next Fergie Proud

, brb gonna go have a wank.

by McAgger Mon Apr 14, 2014 4:58 am

Rodgers is a better coach than Fergie would ever dream of being. Note coach is the key word here before I get attacked by some clowns. I don't think anything needs to be said on Fergie's managing ability though.

by El Chelsea Fuerte Mon Apr 14, 2014 4:59 am

McAgger wrote:Rodgers is a better coach than Fergie would ever dream of being. Note coach is the key word here before I get attacked by some clowns. I don't think anything needs to be said on Fergie's managing ability though.

what exactly do you mean?

by McAgger Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:02 am

I don't exactly know how much more clearer I could've stated that.

SAF is one of the greatest managers of all time. But as a coach on the training pitch he's nothing to be desired by. And coaching is where Rodgers' true strengths lie.

by Footyfan Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:11 am

The point is it is a definite advantage to not have EL or CHL.

However attacking and in the mid-field all of Arsenal, Chelsea and City have much deeper squads with more quality.

In addition what is a major game changer is CHL Qualification. It lures the big starts. If someone like Salah was in Liverpool it would have been much harder to beat Liverpool.

The CHL money and glamour contributes substantially. 7th to 1st is a massive Achievement. It is almost a miracle considering how much money the EPL teams have spend over the years.

Real kudos to Brendon.

It shows what a good coach can do. Take for Example - Arsenal and Wenger. They are fighting to make the CHL places.

Also Liverpool have not pondered less about excuses which Arsenal or Chelsea have which is the reason they are where they are. Had they concentrated on theit team they would not be in this position.

Its ironical that the teams which bi*ch the least like City and Pool are placed the best

by Blue Barrett Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:48 am

Footyfan wrote:
Also Liverpool have not pondered less about excuses which Arsenal or Chelsea have which is the reason they are where they are. Had they concentrated on theit team they would not be in this position.

Its ironical that the teams which bi*ch the least like City and Pool are placed the best

Sir, what exactly does this have to do with how the players play on the pitch? :facepalm:

by iftikhar Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:55 am

If someone like Salah was in Liverpool it would have been much harder to beat Liverpool.

Exactly. If we had CL, we could have ended up with a pair from Mekhty, Costa, Willian, Salah, Kono and a LB. Just imagine how that would have affected us :coffee:

. Instead, we ended up with Cissoko & Moses. :facepalm:

by lszanto Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:00 am

iftikhar wrote:
If someone like Salah was in Liverpool it would have been much harder to beat Liverpool.

Exactly. If we had CL, we could have ended up with a pair from Mekhty, Costa, Willian, Salah, Kono and a LB. Just imagine how that would have affected us . Instead, we ended up with Cissoko & Moses.

And if we had Falcao or Cavani the league would have been over months ago...

What ifs mean nothing...

by iftikhar Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:08 am

lszanto wrote:
iftikhar wrote:
If someone like Salah was in Liverpool it would have been much harder to beat Liverpool.

Exactly. If we had CL, we could have ended up with a pair from Mekhty, Costa, Willian, Salah, Kono and a LB. Just imagine how that would have affected us . Instead, we ended up with Cissoko & Moses.

And if we had Falcao or Cavani the league would have been over months ago...

What ifs mean nothing...

What kept you from getting Falcao, Cavani, Messi, Cron!!! You had CL, money, Mou. We were not in a position to attract established (or even rising) players who could improve the squad. It's not a 'what if' situation, it's cold fact. Give credit where it's due.

by lszanto Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:14 am

2 or 3 of those players were due to bad negotiators and historically you're a bigger club than those surrounding. Just talking rubbish.

by iftikhar Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:17 am

lszanto wrote:2 or 3 of those players were due to bad negotiators and historically you're a bigger club than those surrounding. Just talking rubbish.

by Nishankly Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:22 am

lszanto wrote:2 or 3 of those players were due to bad negotiators and historically you're a bigger club than those surrounding. Just talking rubbish.

Yes and how important that was when we first got rejected by a 28yr old Clint Dempsey for Spurs.

by stevieg8 Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:35 am

Lex wrote:
stevieg8 wrote:Wait, so people seriously think not being in Europe is worth 4 places in the league table in benefits? That's quite a bold statement.
Not just Europe. Knocked out of the league cup back in September, knocked out of the FA cup in February, which is when your unbeaten run started

But I'm sure it's just a silly coincidence

We only had to play one midweek game for the two cups we were in... why would removing 1 game per month from our schedule result in an unbeaten run? That's not really a strong point - there were too few cup games before we got booted from each to have been a real detriment, so I'd be surprised to hear anyone claim that our play got better by getting rid of such a rare subset of games.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that a difference of 20 games in a season has an impact. I just think people might be overstating it a bit. At least one person said we wouldn't be top 4 if we were in Europe, and the idea that there's an ~10 point difference seems like a staggering estimate to me.

by BeautifulGame Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:52 am

lszanto wrote:2 or 3 of those players were due to bad negotiators and historically you're a bigger club than those surrounding. Just talking rubbish.

We missed out on Costa Mktriyan Salah William due to being not in CL. Who exactly we missed out due to bad negotiations?

Stop talking rubbish Laughing

by Sponsored content