We've got a problem

BeautifulGame wrote:

urbaNRoots wrote:Can we appeal for Gibbs' red card? What a ridiculous decision to send HIM off.

Yeah but the red card will be carried over to Ox

Honestly would be better that Ox misses a few games rather than Gibbs. He looked awful vs Spurs and today, surely his confidence must be shot. Plus, I think if Gibbs misses action then Vermaelen is forced to start at leftback. We have more options in midfield if Ox is off.

I think there's a bit of over-analysing going on in this thread, but that's understandable.

Arteta isn't up to your standards any more. He had a stop-gap feel to him three years ago when he was signed on the deadline day in August 2011. Two-and-a-half-years on, I'm not surprised he has started to look like a luxury CM to play against weaker oppositions.

Rosicky was absolutely great (again), but Cazorla looked too easy to close down. You're placing some blame on Oxlade, but that guy can be special in the right role.

Anyway, I guess you still do have a problem. Wenger is perhaps going in too optimistic in some of these games. On one hand that's admirable, going in with the intention to win with good football. On the other hand it's sometimes unrealistic to think you can play some of these tougher oppositions off the park.

It's Wenger. I know you guys love him, I know he is a legend, He whines at times, but he is a class act. He has produced one of the greatest teams in British football history 10 years ago But facts don't lie guys.

I quote this from Heil last week

Wenger’s sole relation to history on nights like Tuesday is that it keeps repeating itself.

In a 30-year managerial career, he’s won domestic titles and cups in France and England, but, despite reaching 3 finals, he has yet to lift a European trophy.

He’s been with the Gunners for 18 years, spent 16 of them in the Champions League, made it out of his group every year for the past 14, yet vanished in the first knock-out stages for the past 4 seasons and reached only 1 final, which he lost.

As he did the 2000 UEFA Cup Final. And the 1992 Cup Winners’ Cup Final with Monaco.

For the most continental of managers, a deep-thinking tactician, a modernist, an urbane man, who has coached some of the most skilful players in the world, who has been given stability and money at a club the size of Arsenal, his failure to conquer Europe is a mystery that deepens by the year.

In his early Highbury days, he was quoted as saying: “If I never win the Champions League with Arsenal, my coaching career has been a failure.

Football has evolved. Ferguson says as much in his interview with Harvard university for the course they did about his career. He changed. Fergie was always a gang hu 4-4-2 manager in Europe for many many years. It brought him very little European success. Then came fresh foreign minds to English game (Mou, Rafa, etc) who did better than Fergie in Europe in limited amount of time and Ferguson admits that he indirectly learned to change. Learned to adapt and hence his European performances improved tenfold in the last decade of his tenure. It brought him another win in 2008 and 2 finals that followed which unluckily for him were against one of the GOAT teams.

Wenger on the other hand, has never learnt. Being stubborn is sometimes great, but sometimes you need to adapt. You need soem flexbility on being a purist. Tactics and adaptability win big matches and bring success in Europe. In the last decade, Wenger's lack of adapbality in his tactics and approach has been highlighted in both Europe AND big matches. Going to StamfordBridge and playing a midfield 2 of Arteta and Ox is suicidal. Everyone with a sane brain could see it when line up was announced.

I think he is too old to change now. Ferguson did, but Wenger doesn't appear to learn. I love the man, but as GJ says in OP it's a repeating process that has been happening for a while, and only that manager is accountable for it IMO.

Arsenal were too open right from the kick-off. Wenger went for it last week at Spurs, with an attacking line-up, and it, ultimately, paid off with the win (despite the average display), but Chelsea are a different kettle of fish. For both of Chelsea's first two goals, Arsenal were left in two on two situations at the back, all this inside the opening 7 minutes. Why Wenger set the side up to be so attacking from the offset - when a point would have been a good result - was bizarre. I would have thought Flamini would have been perfect for today, filling in the holes where Hazard and Oscar love to roam. Arteta's lack of pace and Chamberlain's inexperience showed dramatically today in central midfield.

The losses of Ramsey, Wilshere, Walcott and Ozil are massive, but Chelsea were without two first-choice players themselves in Willian and Ramires. It was perhaps ironic that Chelsea's 6th goal (Matic to Salah) was made by January signings - choosing not to invest in the winter window is looking more and more regretful.

The remainder of the campaign is 100% clear: Finish in top 4 and win FA Cup. Anything less than this and riots will commence.

Arteta is not and never will be a defensive midfielder – he does try but he just does not have the physical presence. Wenger is truly a weak man, our players mentality and performances reflect that, he sticks to the same shitty tactics over and over again, he is so stubborn!

I cant remember any of great managers conceding 5,6,8 goals.

Natalie Portman wrote:It's Wenger. I know you guys love him, I know he is a legend, He whines at times, but he is a class act. He has produced one of the greatest teams in British football history 10 years ago But facts don't lie guys.

I quote this from Heil last week

Wenger’s sole relation to history on nights like Tuesday is that it keeps repeating itself.

In a 30-year managerial career, he’s won domestic titles and cups in France and England, but, despite reaching 3 finals, he has yet to lift a European trophy.

He’s been with the Gunners for 18 years, spent 16 of them in the Champions League, made it out of his group every year for the past 14, yet vanished in the first knock-out stages for the past 4 seasons and reached only 1 final, which he lost.

As he did the 2000 UEFA Cup Final. And the 1992 Cup Winners’ Cup Final with Monaco.

For the most continental of managers, a deep-thinking tactician, a modernist, an urbane man, who has coached some of the most skilful players in the world, who has been given stability and money at a club the size of Arsenal, his failure to conquer Europe is a mystery that deepens by the year.

In his early Highbury days, he was quoted as saying: “If I never win the Champions League with Arsenal, my coaching career has been a failure.

Football has evolved. Ferguson says as much in his interview with Harvard university for the course they did about his career. He changed. Fergie was always a gang hu 4-4-2 manager in Europe for many many years. It brought him very little European success. Then came fresh foreign minds to English game (Mou, Rafa, etc) who did better than Fergie in Europe in limited amount of time and Ferguson admits that he indirectly learned to change. Learned to adapt and hence his European performances improved tenfold in the last decade of his tenure. It brought him another win in 2008 and 2 finals that followed which unluckily for him were against one of the GOAT teams.

Wenger on the other hand, has never learnt. Being stubborn is sometimes great, but sometimes you need to adapt. You need soem flexbility on being a purist. Tactics and adaptability win big matches and bring success in Europe. In the last decade, Wenger's lack of adapbality in his tactics and approach has been highlighted in both Europe AND big matches. Going to StamfordBridge and playing a midfield 2 of Arteta and Ox is suicidal. Everyone with a sane brain could see it when line up was announced.

I think he is too old to change now. Ferguson did, but Wenger doesn't appear to learn. I love the man, but as GJ says in OP it's a repeating process that has been happening for a while, and only that manager is accountable for it IMO.

That is pretty much spot on.

We are missing so many top players, we cant go in to big matches with our legs open and let them walk all over us. We must change and frustrated the other team just the way they do us at home, when the park the bus.

I have not seen this Chelsea team score more than 2-3 goals this season, they are not a scoring team and Wenger should have done his job and sent a defensive team rather than going all out.

Nothing to see here, wenger is responsible...His record against mourinho says it all...10 games and no win even if you were a top 10 team that's a poor record. Those games have seen diff. calibres of players and only one thing remains constant...wenger

on the other hand i say we go on and win the FA cup atleast and maybe the title too..yes u heard it here first!

RealGunner wrote:

Natalie Portman wrote:It's Wenger. I know you guys love him, I know he is a legend, He whines at times, but he is a class act. He has produced one of the greatest teams in British football history 10 years ago But facts don't lie guys.

I quote this from Heil last week

Wenger’s sole relation to history on nights like Tuesday is that it keeps repeating itself.

In a 30-year managerial career, he’s won domestic titles and cups in France and England, but, despite reaching 3 finals, he has yet to lift a European trophy.

He’s been with the Gunners for 18 years, spent 16 of them in the Champions League, made it out of his group every year for the past 14, yet vanished in the first knock-out stages for the past 4 seasons and reached only 1 final, which he lost.

As he did the 2000 UEFA Cup Final. And the 1992 Cup Winners’ Cup Final with Monaco.

For the most continental of managers, a deep-thinking tactician, a modernist, an urbane man, who has coached some of the most skilful players in the world, who has been given stability and money at a club the size of Arsenal, his failure to conquer Europe is a mystery that deepens by the year.

In his early Highbury days, he was quoted as saying: “If I never win the Champions League with Arsenal, my coaching career has been a failure.

Football has evolved. Ferguson says as much in his interview with Harvard university for the course they did about his career. He changed. Fergie was always a gang hu 4-4-2 manager in Europe for many many years. It brought him very little European success. Then came fresh foreign minds to English game (Mou, Rafa, etc) who did better than Fergie in Europe in limited amount of time and Ferguson admits that he indirectly learned to change. Learned to adapt and hence his European performances improved tenfold in the last decade of his tenure. It brought him another win in 2008 and 2 finals that followed which unluckily for him were against one of the GOAT teams.

Wenger on the other hand, has never learnt. Being stubborn is sometimes great, but sometimes you need to adapt. You need soem flexbility on being a purist. Tactics and adaptability win big matches and bring success in Europe. In the last decade, Wenger's lack of adapbality in his tactics and approach has been highlighted in both Europe AND big matches. Going to StamfordBridge and playing a midfield 2 of Arteta and Ox is suicidal. Everyone with a sane brain could see it when line up was announced.

I think he is too old to change now. Ferguson did, but Wenger doesn't appear to learn. I love the man, but as GJ says in OP it's a repeating process that has been happening for a while, and only that manager is accountable for it IMO.

That is pretty much spot on.

Agreed.

I don't know what exactly it is, maybe it comes from the manager but that pussy are choker mentality is such a massive problem too. Its been around for many years now players/captains have finished their training at the centre and gone to other clubs, so it can't really be the players unless Wenger keeps on signing mentality weak players?

Tbf even against Spurs, where you won, Spurs could have and probably should have put at least 2 against you guys, probably 3...and looked the better team :/

There's no press conference tomorrow either, apparently. Could be any number of reasons why but unusual for Wenger not to face the press.

wow

Abramovich wrote:I don't know what exactly it is, maybe it comes from the manager but that pussy are choker mentality is such a massive problem too. Its been around for many years now players/captains have finished their training at the centre and gone to other clubs, so it can't really be the players unless Wenger keeps on signing mentality weak players?

nothing to do with mentality, just tactics/some players arent good enough. its that simple.

CBarca wrote:Tbf even against Spurs, where you won, Spurs could have and probably should have put at least 2 against you guys, probably 3...and looked the better team :/

Ironically, with all of their possession and passing, we had more clear cut chances and the only opportunity they got was gifted to them by Szczesny. Other than that, Adebayor had a header off target. But nice try.

Tactis are really bad.

REWB wrote:

Abramovich wrote:I don't know what exactly it is, maybe it comes from the manager but that pussy are choker mentality is such a massive problem too. Its been around for many years now players/captains have finished their training at the centre and gone to other clubs, so it can't really be the players unless Wenger keeps on signing mentality weak players?

nothing to do with mentality, just tactics/some players arent good enough. its that simple.

Mentality as well.

Further evidence of a media lockdown going on atm: the Arsenal twitter account hasn't tweeted in 24 hours, and none of the players have said anything on twitter either.

It's gotten to the point where Chewsea and Spuddy fans are coming to put the boot in

I wish I were in Beirut

GoonerJay29 wrote:Further evidence of a media lockdown going on atm: the Arsenal twitter account hasn't tweeted in 24 hours, and none of the players have said anything on twitter either.

Yeah, only thing I've seen was Rosicky posting a picture on Instagram just after the game. Wonder what the purpose of this lockdown is? Just to keep the players and staff within Arsenal isolated a bit from the media and wave of negativity hitting us?

Never seen something like this so hopefully Wenger and the players learn that for these final 9-10 matches, nothing less than 100% is acceptable. You'll get eaten alive in this league, as we just did, if you play like that.

Lex wrote:It's gotten to the point where Chewsea and Spuddy fans are coming to put the boot in

I wish I were in Beirut

I'm in Beirut. It's not any easier here. I won't be able to walk through university without getting heckled, booed and lynched now.   

GoonerJay29 wrote:Further evidence of a media lockdown going on atm: the Arsenal twitter account hasn't tweeted in 24 hours, and none of the players have said anything on twitter either.

Apparently Wenger took all of them back to the training ground after the game. Not sure how legit that is.

first thing first... arsenal are the least talented team of the top four and has the less depth... Wenger's arrogance is a gift and a curse, although it helps our players overachieve, it also kills us against more talented teams... I know its the Arsenal way to attack and play straight up but away at Chealsea in the first 10 minutes of the game we tried to jump on them way too early, with both fullbacks pushing up, everytime we lost the ball, theres was only Met and Kos back there... we need to learn to respect our opponents more.. every team has been dropping points this year, and playing and getting a draw would have kept things interesting.

There are two possible reasons I can think of. One is that they want to create an "us against the world" mentality in an effort to squeeze out better performances from the players. The other is that they want to remove any distractions in order to evaluate their recent performances, regain their focus and properly prepare for the Swansea game.

It's a strange one because the only time Wenger has not done a press conference is when he's been ill. But then, I don't think any fan right now wants to hear apologies and excuses from the players or manager, so perhaps this silence is for the best.

I agree about the silence.

No one wants to hear players apologising. Not after they all did against Stoke. No one wants to hear any excuses either.

Best way to answer is a positive reaction on tuesday.

I am expecting some drastic changes though. I don't think half the team would play on tuesday. Maybe we will see

Fabianski-Sagna-Mertesacker-Vermaelen-Gibbs-Kallstrom-Flamini-Oxlade-Cazorla-Gnabry-Akpom

JGUNZ wrote:first thing first...  arsenal are the least talented team of the top four and has the less depth... Wenger's arrogance is a gift and a curse, although it helps our players overachieve, it also kills us against more talented teams...  I know its the Arsenal way to attack and play straight up but away at Chealsea in the first 10 minutes of the game we tried to jump on them way too early,  with both fullbacks pushing up, everytime we lost the ball, theres was only Met and Kos back there...  we need to learn to respect our opponents more.. every team has been dropping points this year, and playing and getting a draw would have kept things interesting.

Not sure about that one, to be honest.