What's the problem?

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Post by The Verminator Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:23 pm

Seriously what is it?

The players we have are not bad players at all. Sagna, Koscielny, Vermaelen, Arteta, Song, Rosicky (Good squad player), RVP, Walcott (out of form),Szczesny. These aren't bad players. Compare them to the Milan players and you can say there isn't too much difference in quality.

So then who's to blame and more importantly, how do we rectify the problem?

So we can say the quality of our players are good, but are they lacking in motivation? Enthusiasm? Passion? Or maybe AW told everyone not to press and just contain? Is AW to blame for the loss? Yes. But is he the only one to blame?

What's wrong with our tactics? Should we have played a different formation?

Voice your opinions here. But please.....try and cool down first and then post.....
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Post by Jay29 Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:28 pm

The problem with our tactics is that we go into games without a plan. We went into tonights game not being properly prepared for what Milan were going to bring to us and without a clear objective in mind; were we going to sit deep and get a draw? Were we going to go after Milan and try and win the game?

The fact that everyone, not just the usual suspects, looked lost is evidence enough of this. Boateng scored a great goal and nobody knew how to react. And it just went down hill from there.

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Post by Zealous Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:30 pm

I'd give Milan more credit, they have good players too.

However their coach is the main reason why they can compete in Europe. Allegri has them very well drilled.
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Post by The Verminator Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:34 pm

So then could you say that the root of our problem is Wenger? I've always supported Wenger but i'm just trying to identify the root of our problems......That's how you fix a problem......Or maybe we just need a new assistant coach?

@zealous: Not saying the have bad players at all. But looking at the players they have, adn the players we have, you can't help but feel that the game should have been MUCH closer than 4-0....
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Post by aleumdance Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:37 pm

lex, if you knew me from the goal.com forums

you would know I am no Wengere Apologist and NOT SCARED OF SAYING THE TRUTH
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Post by aleumdance Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:39 pm

The Verminator wrote:So then could you say that the root of our problem is Wenger? I've always supported Wenger but i'm just trying to identify the root of our problems......That's how you fix a problem......Or maybe we just need a new assistant coach?

@zealous: Not saying the have bad players at all. But looking at the players they have, adn the players we have, you can't help but feel that the game should have been MUCH closer than 4-0....

honestly. its Wenger..

go on Arsenalmania now.. they are saying everything I am saying

his tactics today were not going to work

there wa s no point putting rosicky on the wings, and letting ramsey have 90 minutes of sheep shagging..
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Post by The Verminator Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:40 pm

I thikn AW's game plan was to have Rozza on the wing for work rate. Get a draw, and win at the Emirates. Failed spectacularly i might add.....
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Post by Zealous Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:41 pm

The Verminator wrote:So then could you say that the root of our problem is Wenger? I've always supported Wenger but i'm just trying to identify the root of our problems......That's how you fix a problem......Or maybe we just need a new assistant coach?

@zealous: Not saying the have bad players at all. But looking at the players they have, adn the players we have, you can't help but feel that the game should have been MUCH closer than 4-0....

Yeah I agree, on the face of it you didn't see a 4-0 scoreline but you have to give Milan credit. They have good players and good players on their day can hurt you.

4-0 was a bit surprising I agree though.
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Post by Jay29 Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:41 pm

The Verminator wrote:So then could you say that the root of our problem is Wenger? I've always supported Wenger but i'm just trying to identify the root of our problems......That's how you fix a problem......Or maybe we just need a new assistant coach?

@zealous: Not saying the have bad players at all. But looking at the players they have, adn the players we have, you can't help but feel that the game should have been MUCH closer than 4-0....

Unfortunately, it does come down to the manager in the end. He is the one responsible for the tactics, the one responsible for preparing the team for matches and the one responsible for getting his players focused and motivated for matches. If the team goes out looking completely lost tactically and lacking in any sort of spirit or desire than you have to point fingers at the manager.


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Post by The Verminator Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:44 pm

Alright then i guess to save this from being another Wenger out thread (though everyone has a right to say that), what tactics should we be adopting? As in what should be our standard tactic? High pressing, possession?
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Post by RealGunner Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:46 pm

the problem is that we think of our team in VERY high regards. We are NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

we conceded 4 goals against blackburn, we conceded 8 against man utd, we conceded 4 tonight, 3 against chelsea, 2 against numerous teams

THIS IS NOT ARSENAL.

Some of the players think they have a position set for them and nothing will change that. Song needs to be dropped for Coquelin. His pretty through balls has been hiding his shitty display for far too long

I am not even joking but What Exactly Does Ramsey do in a game ? I gave him credit for scoring against sunderland, but before that ? there was a reason he was dropped. Burnt out ? possibly but he wasnt even that amazing at the start.

Why did we shove down shit in Denilson's throat but ramsey is walking like he is Bergkamp ? Favourism much ?

We blamed Almunia for EVERY SINGLE MISTAKE he made in the last 3 years. But Why does Szczesny goes unscathed ? his shitty kicks have cost us a lot of times. How can a keeper not improve his distributions over a year ? He cant even kick past the half way line. He has immense potential, his shot stopping ability is 2nd to none but Why doesnt he get the blame ? cause he is a fan favourite ?

Once again i would ask the same question, Why wasnt a Midfield brought in ?

Will wilshere be at his best this season ? No. Diaby ? No.

We were hopeless in the middle and thats because we dont have any other option.

This team is only good enough to finish 4th as long as chelsea n liverpool keep gifting points away.

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Post by aleumdance Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:47 pm

The Verminator wrote:Alright then i guess to save this from being another Wenger out thread (though everyone has a right to say that), what tactics should we be adopting? As in what should be our standard tactic? High pressing, possession?

if we pressed , atleast pressed milan..the score won't end even 2-0
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Post by aleumdance Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:53 pm

RealGunner wrote:the problem is that we think of our team in VERY high regards. We are NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

we conceded 4 goals against blackburn, we conceded 8 against man utd, we conceded 4 tonight, 3 against chelsea, 2 against numerous teams

THIS IS NOT ARSENAL.

Some of the players think they have a position set for them and nothing will change that. Song needs to be dropped for Coquelin. His pretty through balls has been hiding his shitty display for far too long

I am not even joking but What Exactly Does Ramsey do in a game ? I gave him credit for scoring against sunderland, but before that ? there was a reason he was dropped. Burnt out ? possibly but he wasnt even that amazing at the start.

Why did we shove down shit in Denilson's throat but ramsey is walking like he is Bergkamp ? Favourism much ?

We blamed Almunia for EVERY SINGLE MISTAKE he made in the last 3 years. But Why does Szczesny goes unscathed ? his shitty kicks have cost us a lot of times. How can a keeper not improve his distributions over a year ? He cant even kick past the half way line. He has immense potential, his shot stopping ability is 2nd to none but Why doesnt he get the blame ? cause he is a fan favourite ?

Once again i would ask the same question, Why wasnt a Midfield brought in ?

Will wilshere be at his best this season ? No. Diaby ? No.

We were hopeless in the middle and thats because we dont have any other option.

This team is only good enough to finish 4th as long as chelsea n liverpool keep gifting points away.


never seen you like this, Glad you are mad too,, thought you had the Wengerism flu Smile
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Post by Sri Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:56 pm

*bleep* YOU ARSENAL. DONT GIVE REASONS AS TO WILSHERE AND DIABY NT PLAYING.

WHR R D REPLACEMENTS FR D INJURED.

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Post by Jay29 Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:57 pm

Well first of all I should say that there is nothing wrong with the formation and the way we're trying to play. Players being out of form or just not good enough can play just a big a role in poor results than incorrect tactics can.

My problem with Wenger, and I've maintained this for a while now, is that he is unwilling to make changes to counter a certain situation. Tonight, for example, Arsenal had no clear gameplan, neither playing a defensive game or an offensive one and inevtiably being outplayed.

At half-time, he subsituted Walcott for Henry. He pushed Ramsey out wide and dropped van Persie a little deeper. Okay, so Walcott had a bad game, but what would playing Ramsey wide right accomplish? By taking Walcott out of the game, he took out our only natural width and one of the only players in the side capable of carrying the ball at speed over a long distance.

When he put on someone who can do that, Chamberlain, we looked a better side.

Another gripe of mine is that on a night like this, the players shouldn't be scared to play. They had to be sent out with no fear but that didn't happen. Okay, so it might not necessarily be Wenger's fault - perhaps the lack of big game experience in some his players was the biggest contributor to this - but it's his job to focus the players and make sure things like that don't happen. And if he can't do it alone, he needs help.

I'm not going to use tonights game as an excuse to say "Wenger out", but that's generally how I feel about him at the moment.

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Post by RealGunner Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:02 pm

GoonerJay29 wrote:Well first of all I should say that there is nothing wrong with the formation and the way we're trying to play. Players being out of form or just not good enough can play just a big a role in poor results than incorrect tactics can.

My problem with Wenger, and I've maintained this for a while now, is that he is unwilling to make changes to counter a certain situation. Tonight, for example, Arsenal had no clear gameplan, neither playing a defensive game or an offensive one and inevtiably being outplayed.

At half-time, he subsituted Walcott for Henry. He pushed Ramsey out wide and dropped van Persie a little deeper. Okay, so Walcott had a bad game, but what would playing Ramsey wide right accomplish? By taking Walcott out of the game, he took out our only natural width and one of the only players in the side capable of carrying the ball at speed over a long distance.

When he put on someone who can do that, Chamberlain, we looked a better side.

Another gripe of mine is that on a night like this, the players shouldn't be scared to play. They had to be sent out with no fear but that didn't happen. Okay, so it might not necessarily be Wenger's fault - perhaps the lack of big game experience in some his players was the biggest contributor to this - but it's his job to focus the players and make sure things like that don't happen. And if he can't do it alone, he needs help.

I'm not going to use tonights game as an excuse to say "Wenger out", but that's generally how I feel about him at the moment.

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Post by Emaharg Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:07 pm

I don't know why we couldn't sit deep and counter attack, every away match we play is the same. They give us possession sit back and hit us on the counter attack everyone does it Swansea, Blackburn, Fulham, Milan, United, Chelsea, Spurs.
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Post by silver Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:16 am

No leadership, no experience, no enthusiam, no desire to win. Players are too comfortable in their current state. You play one poor game and will still be picked for the next game. What was the point in buying Benayoun and Park if your never going to play them! Players are too passive. Gone are the days where Adams, Campbell, Vieira would yell at you for making a mistake and you knew you had to improve and play well to keep your place in the team. The standard to play for Arsenal has decresed so drastically since the invincibles.
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Post by Raptorgunner Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:38 pm

The problem is that we have many players who are not good enouph but get paid like they are.

The problem with Arsenal is the arrogant coach who think we are good enouph team, when the whole world knows we have too many overrated players who game after game play like shit and they get away with it.

We have players who should not start or even sit on the bench for big games but Wenger sends them out there to get embarrassed.

I dont blame the loss on Wenger because he had no choice but to field the players he had. I will blame Wenger for not selling players and buy quality players. He had enouph time to buy players and we end up with some 17 year old kid like he has been doing for years. What pisses me off is that we offerd only 7 million for Podolski? how are we going to buy quality players when the team is so *bleep* cheap. We are a money making club. How do we sell Nasri for 25 million and we dont make a decent offer for Podolski?

Wenger acts like Arsenal money is his money, he is and old man who is stubbornness is destroying a big club. We are not simply good enouph and yesterday showed how bad we are, our board if full of old donkeys and Wenger fits right in there with them.

We only have one scorer in our team the rest just get lucky once a while and score, look at Milan team, everyone one of them could have scored. I really thought they would score more, I really dont know how we escaped with only losing by 4 goals, it could have been much worse.

I hope the that dumb ass Stan Kroenke is happy, the guy just pocketing money and has not spent anything in to the club. Any one who support this idiot should watch all his other teams and see where they were before him and where they are now.

We need to clean up Arsenal and start with the board, Wenger and many players must go. The reason I want Wenger is gone cus he has the power to do what he wants and he is not doing anything about it. What can Arsenal do to Wenger if he stands up to the board? nothing.

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Post by REWB Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:22 pm

even pathetic spend money ffs, when aguero was sold for 40mill they straight away brought falcao for 35mill. quick business and no messing around.
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Post by Raptorgunner Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:27 pm

REWB wrote:even pathetic spend money ffs, when aguero was sold for 40mill they straight away brought falcao for 35mill. quick business and no messing around.

Its Wenger who does not want to spend, he says the dumbest thing which is we have a big squad. :facepalm:

I dont wan to take anything away from Milan they are a great side and with great players, but even Wigan would have done a better job than we we did.

Wenger still thinks its 2004, he cant see it the whole world has gone forward. Very Happy
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Post by boss Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:28 pm

The problem is ...! hmm maybe our squad n wenger knows best...who knows!..............everyone should be ashamed ,definitely :facepalm:

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Post by The Verminator Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:44 pm

To those saying spend some money: Yea that's all good. It would help us. But it wouldn't ave gotten us out of that s*** hole that we were in yesterday....

Also, while the season is still underway, everyone should get behind the team, because it'sw when the club needs our support more than ever...
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Post by BarcaLearning Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:28 pm

I watched most of this game... part of the problem I see currently Arsenal obviously is having no real play maker - losing Cesc and Nasri. U guys seem empty in the attacking mid area. Hence some of u mentioning looking like wihtout a gameplan or idea going forward. Players like Rosicky are trying to make it from deep wider positions and Walcott etc wide right, its not happening. VP up front along arent going to win crosses.... defensively u guys have been weak for a longgggggg time, and its not been fixed.

Just my observations.... Wenger doesnt look like improving things for a long time, so Im sure he should leave soon?

Havent seen Arsenal lost so clearly in Europe in a long time... not sure, but Milan were very determined and scored their chances...
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Post by boss Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:05 pm

The players we have are not bad players at all. Sagna, Koscielny, Vermaelen, Arteta, Song, Rosicky (Good squad player), RVP, Walcott (out of form),Szczesny. These aren't bad players. Compare them to the Milan players and you can say there isn't too much difference in quality.
True ! well, imo our players are suffering of (big games fobia) ! ,plus lacking in disciplines,respect! ,strategy n communications ...that's it.

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