Re: How good are England?

by sportsczy Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:49 pm

Zealous wrote:
sportsczy wrote:England's best possible outcome for the WC is getting out of the group stage... after that, the quality isn't good enough.

There are some decent players there... but nobody world class or even close to it other than Rooney. That's not enough. I also feel that the manager isn't very good; so there's a tactical handicap too.

The fact that the competition is not on European soil is always a recipe for disaster for European NTs.., which is unfortunate...

They would beat France.

No. But it's nice to dream. Best England could do was draw us in the Euro (while parking the bus)... and that was with Mexes-Rami crap CB partnership and the horrific Alou Diarra-M'Vila double pivot. Now you're looking at Varane-Koscielny, Pogba-Matuidi-Cabaye mid AND Griezmann to join Ribery/Benzema. Talent is very good with France in the top 11 if injuries allow... Not elite by any chance, but really good and with a lot of upside there.

Griezmann and DIgne both got their first callups today.

by RedOranje Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:29 pm

Zealous wrote:
Sturridge is a great talent, maybe the best of the lot, but his game could be sooooo much better if he made the effort. He needs to thank his lucky stars that he plays with Suarez, who can accommodate him but he won't have that luxury with England.

What?

No seriously, explain this one to me, as I can find absolutely no semblance to any logic behind that statement given Sturridge's season so far. Sturridge has willingly played on the wings and tracked back, working as hard as anyone in the side on multiple occasions just to accommodate Suarez in a central role, when the manager called for it AND was performing at a similarly consistent and top level in the opening stages of the season when Suarez wasn't even playing due to suspension.

by Zealous Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:45 pm

To clarify when I said effort I didn't mean work rate, I meant effort into improving his game. At the moment his decision making is suspect and frankly for me, not good enough. His talent is obvious and can't be denied but with Suarez facilitating the attack his decision making is kept to a minimum.

I've lost count of the number of times Suarez looked like he wanted to slap him because he'd mess up an attacking play by shooting despite Suarez being through on goal.

He's having a great season as part of a team that has legitimate attacking quality in a league where games are open but I somehow doubt he'll be anywhere near as good playing for England (which is what we're discussing here)

by Lex Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:54 pm

Under Woy's guidance, England have beaten both Brazil and Italy in recent years

Stay mad, haters :coffee:

by sportsczy Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:54 pm

Sturridge was really good when Suarez was suspended tbh... i think he's turned a corner. With him, it's about keeping his bad attitude and ego in check.

by sportsczy Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:55 pm

Lex wrote:Under Woy's guidance, England have beaten both Brazil and Italy in recent years

Stay mad, haters

Friendlies are really important....

by McAgger Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:55 pm

sportsczy wrote:Sturridge was really good when Suarez was suspended tbh... i think he's turned a corner. With him, it's about keeping his bad attitude and ego in check.

Oh that bad attitude that doesn't exist? It was a myth. The guy has one of the best personalties and attitudes I have ever seen.

by Lex Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:56 pm

sportsczy wrote:
Lex wrote:Under Woy's guidance, England have beaten both Brazil and Italy in recent years

Stay mad, haters
Friendlies are really important....

Only when England lose, it seems

by sportsczy Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:59 pm

McAgger wrote:
sportsczy wrote:Sturridge was really good when Suarez was suspended tbh... i think he's turned a corner. With him, it's about keeping his bad attitude and ego in check.

Oh that bad attitude that doesn't exist? It was a myth. The guy has one of the best personalties and attitudes I have ever seen.

Oh come on. It was well documented not only at Chelsea but even when he was on England NT... good form and good play tend to put makeup on everything. It'll be interesting to see how he deals with bad form iand difficult situations in the future... because it will come. Every footballer deals with peaks and valleys.

by Doc Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:00 pm

England is not average at all. Roy probably is though so you better look into that one.

by The Franchise Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:04 pm

Werent England - Brazil 2-2? And Brazil were much superior in that game?

Or have they since played another game?

by Arquitecto Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:08 pm

By all accounts and means, I am failing to see an average squad. It is rather silly to compare previous generations as talent generations come in cycles which is why España and Germany have reached a far more talented tangent than their previous ones, while Italia, England Uruguay, Brazil etc have simply undergone a modernization and TRANSITION point within the requisites of their talent, most of them still in their nascent stages.

England have Joe Hart, their best Goalkeeper since David Seaman.

Backline is solid even for now with John Terry-Cahil partnership, a still defensively world class Cole, and dangerous Leighton Baines.

For the future there is Martin Kelly, Luke Shaw, Robinson, Kieran Gibbs, Chris Smalling (don't be fooled by his form under Moyes), Flanagan. Not scintillating technical players yet defensively solid on the whole.

Midfield you still have Lampard and a currently brilliant Steven Gerrard, Carrick, Milner Future names like Ross Barkley, Henderson, Chamberlain, and the marquee Jack Wilshere. That is an excellent core for the future of their midfield.

In attack you still have Wayne Roonay, Sturridge who is world class, Theo Walcott and Sterling who at this age is performing very well. Adam Johnson in his resurgence must also be considered while names like Tom Ince is a good shout considering his talent and intelligence.

Definitely a squad that can win any competition.

Where England fail is the appointment of the fat bumbling oaf Roy Hodgson who will never use this squad to their potential whether tactically or for their growth. He lacks guile or any balls and despite doing simple things right to which Capello never did, he is not and should not be the man to transition this precarious moment of talent.

But then again, he is a good man...

by Gil Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:09 pm

Lol at people mentioning Sturridge as if he's been a legitimate factor for England since he's made his debut. Rooney & Gerrard aside this squad is nothing special.

The Franchise wrote:Werent England - Brazil 2-2? And Brazil were much superior in that game?

Or have they since played another game?

He's talking about the game at Wembley.

by The Franchise Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:13 pm

I dont know that one. Same year?

I was looking at the 2012..but that's a different Brazil. For starters Ronaldinho started Laughing

Thiago Silva did not.

by Lex Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:18 pm

Hart excellently saved a Ronaldinho penalty :coffee:

by Zealous Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:20 pm

They drew 2-2 in the Maracana I believe.

by RedOranje Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:43 pm

Zealous wrote:To clarify when I said effort I didn't mean work rate, I meant effort into improving his game. At the moment his decision making is suspect and frankly for me, not good enough. His talent is obvious and can't be denied but with Suarez facilitating the attack his decision making is kept to a minimum.

I've lost count of the number of times Suarez looked like he wanted to slap him because he'd mess up an attacking play by shooting despite Suarez being through on goal.

He's having a great season as part of a team that has legitimate attacking quality in a league where games are open but I somehow doubt he'll be anywhere near as good playing for England (which is what we're discussing here)

The count is at about 2, maybe 3. And the exact same situation has been reversed just as often. Yet you don't seem to be too concerned about Suarez's apparently poor decision making. Sturridge has 18 goals and 5 assists in 19 league matches this season. That's hardly a pauper's return on either front and when in that type of form in front of goal there's every reason for a striker to be willing to take on some otherwise ill-advised attempts. Again, Suarez does it just as often.

Also (not sure why you completely ignored this rather pertinent point), Sturridge performed consistently even while Suarez was not in the side, which rather suggests that Suarez isn't papering over faults in his game and Sturridge isn't reliant upon Suarez's "facilitating the attack."

by Art Morte Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:46 pm

sportsczy wrote:
McAgger wrote:
sportsczy wrote:Sturridge was really good when Suarez was suspended tbh... i think he's turned a corner. With him, it's about keeping his bad attitude and ego in check.

Oh that bad attitude that doesn't exist? It was a myth. The guy has one of the best personalties and attitudes I have ever seen.

Oh come on. It was well documented not only at Chelsea but even when he was on England NT... good form and good play tend to put makeup on everything. It'll be interesting to see how he deals with bad form iand difficult situations in the future... because it will come. Every footballer deals with peaks and valleys.

¨

No, man, trust the LFC fans on this one. Sturridge hasn't been only impressive on paper this season, he's been really humble, too. Emotional after our FA cup loss at Arsenal where he missed a few glorious chances. Always congratulating the player providing a crucial assist to his goal. I remember the talk about his ego problems, but this guy is really mature now. Anyone criticizing his attitude is doing it on the basis of his past, not his present.

by Lord Awesome Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:48 pm

Not average in my book. Just staing at the squad is enough to realize that they're a good side.

The word average is just used too loosely here

by urbaNRoots Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:49 pm

Honestly that England squad doesn't sound too bad on paper, but then football isn't played on paper. I'd like to see first what Hodgson's (not yours) first XI from that squad would be before judging.

by DeletedUser#1 Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:53 pm

Sturridge and bad attitude is the worst myth in football. He is genuinely the nicest guy in our team. And a great will to win. It's just that he is black and looks like a gangster that people think he has a bad attitude. Typical racist stereotype

by Zealous Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:01 pm

RedOranje wrote:
Zealous wrote:To clarify when I said effort I didn't mean work rate, I meant effort into improving his game. At the moment his decision making is suspect and frankly for me, not good enough. His talent is obvious and can't be denied but with Suarez facilitating the attack his decision making is kept to a minimum.

I've lost count of the number of times Suarez looked like he wanted to slap him because he'd mess up an attacking play by shooting despite Suarez being through on goal.

He's having a great season as part of a team that has legitimate attacking quality in a league where games are open but I somehow doubt he'll be anywhere near as good playing for England (which is what we're discussing here)

The count is at about 2, maybe 3. And the exact same situation has been reversed just as often. Yet you don't seem to be too concerned about Suarez's apparently poor decision making. Sturridge has 18 goals and 5 assists in 19 league matches this season. That's hardly a pauper's return on either front and when in that type of form in front of goal there's every reason for a striker to be willing to take on some otherwise ill-advised attempts. Again, Suarez does it just as often.

Also (not sure why you completely ignored this rather pertinent point), Sturridge performed consistently even while Suarez was not in the side, which rather suggests that Suarez isn't papering over faults in his game and Sturridge isn't reliant upon Suarez's "facilitating the attack."

You're right man I have seen the light, Sturridge is the perfect striker the english Pele. When I really think about it it's pretty clear that Sturridge should actually try to tone it down to make it fair for everyone else.

by sportsczy Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:03 pm

lol z

by RedOranje Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:16 pm

Except that's not at all what I said. Sarcasm only really works when it's not outright lies and fiction.

by The_Badger Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:21 pm

Zealous wrote:
RedOranje wrote:
Zealous wrote:To clarify when I said effort I didn't mean work rate, I meant effort into improving his game. At the moment his decision making is suspect and frankly for me, not good enough. His talent is obvious and can't be denied but with Suarez facilitating the attack his decision making is kept to a minimum.

I've lost count of the number of times Suarez looked like he wanted to slap him because he'd mess up an attacking play by shooting despite Suarez being through on goal.

He's having a great season as part of a team that has legitimate attacking quality in a league where games are open but I somehow doubt he'll be anywhere near as good playing for England (which is what we're discussing here)

The count is at about 2, maybe 3. And the exact same situation has been reversed just as often. Yet you don't seem to be too concerned about Suarez's apparently poor decision making. Sturridge has 18 goals and 5 assists in 19 league matches this season. That's hardly a pauper's return on either front and when in that type of form in front of goal there's every reason for a striker to be willing to take on some otherwise ill-advised attempts. Again, Suarez does it just as often.

Also (not sure why you completely ignored this rather pertinent point), Sturridge performed consistently even while Suarez was not in the side, which rather suggests that Suarez isn't papering over faults in his game and Sturridge isn't reliant upon Suarez's "facilitating the attack."

You're right man I have seen the light, Sturridge is the perfect striker the english Pele. When I really think about it it's pretty clear that Sturridge should actually try to tone it down to make it fair for everyone else.

by The_Badger Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:25 pm

Lord Awesome wrote:Not average in my book. Just staing at the squad is enough to realize that they're a good side.

The word average is just used too loosely here

We have some good individuals playing for England, we're just an unimpressive and often disorganised unit together, partly down to Hodgson, but mostly down to the lack of talent he has at his disposal.

It might actually be a good thing that our media and fans aren't hyping them up beyond what they actually warrant like in previous years under Beckham/Terry/Lampard etc., in fact it's quite the opposite - I don't think anyone really expects us to make it out of the group in Brazil.

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