Re: Mourinho vs Pellegrini

by lszanto Wed 12 Feb - 12:41:45

The best thing about his quote is that he sneakily didn't even include Zouma when adding our transfers and nobody noticed Razz

by Blue Barrett Wed 12 Feb - 13:48:08

lszanto wrote:The best thing about his quote is that he sneakily didn't even include Zouma when adding our transfers and nobody noticed

I definitely noticed Laughing

But idk, maybe Zouma's will register with next year's books.

by che Wed 12 Feb - 15:10:15

Blue Barrett wrote:
Its funny how his spell at Madrid is supposedly deemed a failure by quite a number of people. Tell me ONE coach in the world who would have dominated THAT Barca at their peak. Even the great Sir Alex got completely outclassed on the grandest stage....TWICE.

he's deemed a failure because he was brought in for one specific reason - win the champions league - and he failed to do that... it's not just about spending half a billion to build a team that can beat barcelona when that team gets smacked around by bayern and dortmund... and then by atletico in their own backyard lol

by Robespierre Wed 12 Feb - 15:27:37

But we haven't forgotten what it was Real Madrid before of Mourinho ... a club eliminated for 8 consecutive years (! yes, the Real Madrid) in Champions League Round of 16 , and Pellegrini can testify it Laughing

If this Real Madrid is a top club it is much merit of Mourinho to be fair , he built this squad , he contributed to create this mentality , it's easier to coach the Real Madrid surely now ... if we consider also there is not the Barcellona of Guardiola but the faded copy of that equipazo. I can agree about he could do better (but anyway he won also a Liga against that Barcellona, but okay, I can agree about it) , but I disagree about failure. The failures are another thing for me.

Anyway about this querelle ... it has became a bad football habit to create pressure on adversary
about the money spent so as to remove responsibility for any failures

It's not only a matter about Pellegrini-Mourinho .

It was same thing in Italy with Conte - Benitez for 2 months (when Napoli was battling for 1st place), then Mazzarri-Montella and others.

Too much boriing .

by halamadrid2 Wed 12 Feb - 16:35:13

Blue Barrett wrote:
Its funny how his spell at Madrid is supposedly deemed a failure by quite a number of people. Tell me ONE coach in the world who would have dominated THAT Barca at their peak. Even the great Sir Alex got completely outclassed on the grandest stage....TWICE.

Yet Madrid still won the league breaking records in the process. I don't think there's been a single Madrid manager in the past 10-15 years who Madrid fans and/or the Spanish press haven't had something entirely negative to say about. Hell, they ran Del Bosque out of town. Amazing.

I'm almost 100% certain Carlo will be chased and tagged with some sort of negativity when he inevitably leaves Madrid.

The "glamour" behind that Madrid job is a smoke screen. One of the WORST managing jobs to have in football, all things considered.

inb4Chelseafanwithmultiplefiredmanagers

Only Carlo has actually done a better job than him in his very little time here all that while playing very good football. And before anyone tells me that Mou supposedly built the base. Nonsense, For Mou Carvajal was too "young", Jese was a 9.54534678653 so could not play for the first team, Modric was a super sub, Pepe was finished and Iker was a pest. Funny how Carlo has made all these play together and on top of that reviving Benzema who was called a cat by Mou. No more sit back and counter bullshite, no more three defensive midfielders, no more concede 3 goals every game (funnily enough mou was supposed to make us defensively very good), no more cluelessness when we play a defensive team, no more media problems. Just a peaceful strong team going about their business getting better as every game goes by

Granted we had a very slow start to the season where nothing seemed to be working which could be down to carlo experimenting formations because we seemed to be unbalanced and all the injuries we had. Since the start of 2014 we have conceded only 3 goals all three of them wonder goals and only taken less than 20 shots against us

if Carlo was to leave I can assure you he would have a better record than Mou trophy wise and the fans would love him because fr a starter he is showing alot of faith in our youth player, if mou was here he would make any excuse not to play them, he is very polite so he wouldnt be soiling himself all over our image and he would have a great relationship with the players. Just like Pellegrini who was not hated by the madrid fans because of how well he conducted himself Carlo won't be either. Pelle couldn't get results so he was driven out by the media. Perez isn't very fond of Marca/As anymore so I doubt he would just sit by while they make up every little fabricated gossip about our team just to make carlo less popular

If Mou had put dimaria in midfield he would have seen himself as a genious and bragged about it, for Carlo its like "move on nothing to see here onto the next game please" I can still remember him bragging about giving the most number of youth players their debuts in our history rofl

many of them got like 5 minutes when the title was already over. The guy is a hypocrite, his true colour shows when he loses. He talks about small horses and what not now because he knows his team is very much in the race for the title Laughing

watch his reaction when he loses in CL

The guy must have been the whingiest coach in our history, complaining about everything from pitch condition to the schedules. It went so far that the socios wanted him out, forget the players or the fans but the bloody socios wanted him gone.

Glad he is not with us anymore, we need a stable manager that will stay with us for very long, Carlo showed with milan that he can be a long term manager, we have a young team so they can only get better. Barring a disaster I think he will be with us for a very long time especially if he manages to win CL this/next season

I am not saying Mou is a bad coach by any means but he can only work in a team that accepts his antics. We don't. Spain don't. England do, Chelsea might do. Nothing to do with Madrid. We have a backward president who for a very ling time seemed to be forming our team based on his fifa 99/00/01/02/03/04/05/06/07/08/09/10/11/12/13 experience. Now the Bale buy was not really needed but he seems to have settled in very well and Jese is getting alot of minutes. So I am happy............so far. Things can change very quickly though so who knows

by FalcaoPunch Wed 12 Feb - 16:45:00

How has Carlo done better... When we haven't won anything?

by Robespierre Wed 12 Feb - 17:01:17

I remember that until two years ago, no one was afraid of Real Madrid , as instead it was a time with Del Bosque

The real Madrid could intimidate just for the name , for the blazon, but actually there were other clubs who wanted to be avoided most than Real

I remember many walked there. At Santiago Bernabeu.
I remember Rodrigo Taddei defaced Bernabeu .
I remember Juve just returned from Serie B winning there 0-2 without much difficulty
I remember the mediocre Milan of Leonardo winning 2-3 there, Real who thought to win with players as Drenthe.
Now Royston Drenthe is playing with Reading, in Championship
. Not Champions League.

This was the Real pre - Mourinho. Something not worthy of the glorious Madrilena history

But maybe I will remember badly.

by halamadrid2 Wed 12 Feb - 17:06:18

FalcaoPunch wrote:How has Carlo done better... When we haven't won anything?

ok lets see:

Level on points with the league leaders (with the easiest schedule of the top three left when CL starts getting tough) all with various injuries to many of our players
Copa final, conceded none in the process
Team hitting its stride just in time for the CL crunch games
Made it realistic to go out of a Bayern/Barca game without conceding by creating a dynamic balanced team hard to score against
Solved the Ronaldo-Marcelo side finally(most crucial???)
Made it realistic for us to actually get a treble/double this season by still being alive in all competitions

Mou this time in any of his years with us:

Midfield being crap
Teams targeting Marcelos side because he hasn't bothered to fix the Ronaldo not tracking back problem
Out of the league and/or the cup. Never actually been alive in three competitions around this time

by halamadrid2 Wed 12 Feb - 17:24:20

Robespierre wrote:I remember that until two years ago, no one was afraid of Real Madrid , as instead it was a time with Del Bosque

The real Madrid could intimidate just for the name , for the blazon, but actually there were other clubs who wanted to be avoided most than Real

I remember many walked there. At Santiago Bernabeu.
I remember Rodrigo Taddei defaced Bernabeu .
I remember Juve just returned from Serie B winning there 0-2 without much difficulty
I remember the mediocre Milan of Leonardo winning 2-3 there, Real who thought to win with players as Drenthe.
Now Royston Drenthe is playing with Reading, in Championship
. Not Champions League.

This was the Real pre - Mourinho. Something not worthy of the glorious Madrilena history

But maybe I will remember badly.

Madrid of before would buy drenthe, adebayour, faubert, cicinho, carvalho when we needed a player off the bench or possibly fight to get a starting role, I remember real madrid of before that would get coaches for short term and sack them even when they won the league. I remember real madrid from before having a president who thought he was managing the team from his own house. I remember real madrid of before letting all our youth leave because we had no place for them in our team and one of those who was a kingpin in what was to become arguably the best team in the modern era all while generating a high level of hate towards us

We do not do these mistakes anymore

Dortmund who had never been in a cl semifinal for a very loooong time actually marauded us around as if we were eintracht frankfurt last season. He didn't create fear into anything but himself

I get he got us past the last 16 for the first time in years but fact is we were extremely unlucky the season before, and thats with an inferior team to the one he inherited. It was going to happen. We were just very unlucky the season before he took over

by FalcaoPunch Wed 12 Feb - 17:27:17

halamadrid2 wrote:
FalcaoPunch wrote:How has Carlo done better... When we haven't won anything?

ok lets see:

Level on points with the league leaders (with the easiest schedule of the top three left when CL starts getting tough) all with various injuries to many of our players
Copa final, conceded none in the process
Team hitting its stride just in time for the CL crunch games
Made it realistic to go out of a Bayern/Barca game without conceding by creating a dynamic balanced team hard to score against
Solved the Ronaldo-Marcelo side finally(most crucial???)
Made it realistic for us to actually get a treble/double this season by still being alive in all competitions

Mou this time in any of his years with us:

Midfield being crap
Teams targeting Marcelos side because he hasn't bothered to fix the Ronaldo not tracking back problem
Out of the league and/or the cup. Never actually been alive in three competitions around this time

But at the end of the day here no one will remember that. Only the silverware we manage to win.
And we are doing just fine now but to say he's doing better than Mou with this season not even done yet is a bit ridiculous.

by The_Badger Wed 12 Feb - 17:30:14

If his objective was to win the CL then only reaching the semi-finals is deemed a failure so why try to make out it was a success?

He may have gone to rounds further than his predecessor, but he still failed. No one cares about the semi-finalists.

by halamadrid2 Wed 12 Feb - 17:39:45

FalcaoPunch wrote:
halamadrid2 wrote:
FalcaoPunch wrote:How has Carlo done better... When we haven't won anything?

ok lets see:

Level on points with the league leaders (with the easiest schedule of the top three left when CL starts getting tough) all with various injuries to many of our players
Copa final, conceded none in the process
Team hitting its stride just in time for the CL crunch games
Made it realistic to go out of a Bayern/Barca game without conceding by creating a dynamic balanced team hard to score against
Solved the Ronaldo-Marcelo side finally(most crucial???)
Made it realistic for us to actually get a treble/double this season by still being alive in all competitions

Mou this time in any of his years with us:

Midfield being crap
Teams targeting Marcelos side because he hasn't bothered to fix the Ronaldo not tracking back problem
Out of the league and/or the cup. Never actually been alive in three competitions around this time

But at the end of the day here no one will remember that. Only the silverware we manage to win.
And we are doing just fine now but to say he's doing better than Mou with this season not even done yet is a bit ridiculous.

Absolutely. No doubt that it will count to nothing if we fail to win anything. If you've not already noticed Carlo has solved/ is sloving some of the problems we had under Mourinho. Thats what will matter when we play teams who would otherwise expose these easy targets

We are in a very good position atm. We only have ourselves to blame if we fail to win anything. Barring Atleti and Sociedad we are not really playing any big teams away from home for the whole remainder of the season. If we manage not to lose silly points away from home I believe we will have the league in our bag. CL is another story and I hope we get to the final in it.

by FalcaoPunch Wed 12 Feb - 18:49:45

halamadrid2 wrote:
FalcaoPunch wrote:
halamadrid2 wrote:

ok lets see:

Level on points with the league leaders (with the easiest schedule of the top three left when CL starts getting tough) all with various injuries to many of our players
Copa final, conceded none in the process
Team hitting its stride just in time for the CL crunch games
Made it realistic to go out of a Bayern/Barca game without conceding by creating a dynamic balanced team hard to score against
Solved the Ronaldo-Marcelo side finally(most crucial???)
Made it realistic for us to actually get a treble/double this season by still being alive in all competitions

Mou this time in any of his years with us:

Midfield being crap
Teams targeting Marcelos side because he hasn't bothered to fix the Ronaldo not tracking back problem
Out of the league and/or the cup. Never actually been alive in three competitions around this time

But at the end of the day here no one will remember that. Only the silverware we manage to win.
And we are doing just fine now but to say he's doing better than Mou with this season not even done yet is a bit ridiculous.

Absolutely. No doubt that it will count to nothing if we fail to win anything. If you've not already noticed Carlo has solved/ is sloving some of the problems we had under Mourinho. Thats what will matter when we play teams who would otherwise expose these easy targets

We are in a very good position atm. We only have ourselves to blame if we fail to win anything. Barring Atleti and Sociedad we are not really playing any big teams away from home for the whole remainder of the season. If we manage not to lose silly points away from home I believe we will have the league in our bag. CL is another story and I hope we get to the final in it.

And Mourinho helped "solve" the problem of not getting past the R16 of CL.
Since we failed to win anything last year why aren't we putting ourselves "to blame"?

We got to the semi's 3 years with Mourinho and by a small margin missed out on the final. So that's mourinho's fault not ours (the team). You have to be consistent with the logic you are using to support Carlo because it also applies to Mourinho.

by Le Samourai Wed 12 Feb - 21:11:44

Carlo gets the same assessment when it comes to winning. Anyone who coaches us will.

However, the way Carlo handles things is just a hundred times better for the team. He's come into a pretty difficult situation and maintained a firm stance, yet allowed himself the flexibility necessary to make sensible decisions. Mourinhio acted like a child, ever time someone criticized him, he reacted antagonistically. There was no humility there, no real assessment of where the team could improve.

The year we won was a good year, Benzema,Higuain and Ronaldo,Ozil,Di Maria etc were ridiculous, but even then, I think most people on here were highlighting the problems the squad was facing. Getting mauled by Villareal and other nobodies, winning because the team in general just had more pace, power and individual talent. Then last year the set pieces. Not a single ounce of improvement in either category in three years.

People want you to go, Waw, we reached a semi-final. Maybe that had something to do with the Billion dollars we spent on the squad and the fact that the only team we met actually worth beating was United.

Carlo comes in and immediately you see him working on those things and you see results.

by FalcaoPunch Wed 12 Feb - 21:53:11

Carlo comes in and it isn't till 2014 that things start turning around for us. We started off just as shaky as before and we managed to turn things around.

All I'm saying is that let's say for example this year, despite Carlo "fixing" problems, we only win the CDR. What will you make of this season?

Because in Mou's case,certain fans say CDR is a joke of a trophy. And he was a failure because he's only won two trophies at his time here.

by Le Samourai Wed 12 Feb - 22:44:29

Again, there are two different types of success.

One is the actual trophies. For me Copa doesn't factor into that, I feel as though I've been consistent there. So if all we won is Copa, then effectively we won nothing. And the season will have been a failure in terms cold hard silverware.

The other is progress. If we develop a consistent playing style, something that accommodates our players. Develop a defensive awareness and responsibility, regardless of silverware, I call that a success.

by Blue Barrett Thu 13 Feb - 0:19:04

Its funny how Madrid's defense were by far the weakest of any of Mourinho's teams, from Porto to 04-07 Chelsea to Inter to this Chelsea. Wonder if that had anything to do with the playe....oh wait...it was definitely all his fault.

by FalcaoPunch Thu 13 Feb - 0:49:55

Le Samourai wrote:Again, there are two different types of success.

One is the actual trophies. For me Copa doesn't factor into that, I feel as though I've been consistent there. So if all we won is Copa, then effectively we won nothing. And the season will have been a failure in terms cold hard silverware.

The other is progress. If we develop a consistent playing style, something that accommodates our players. Develop a c, regardless of silverware, I call that a success.

Yup and Madrid coaches, for the longest time, are only weighed upon how well the team plays... oh wait. No.
No coach will ever last at madrid solely for making us play well and at the end of the day have nothing to show for it.

I respect that you have a similar view to me. I feel that as long as we have "defensive awareness and responsibility" that is success, but at the end of the day, trophies are what matter.

by The Franchise Thu 13 Feb - 3:37:02

Blue Barrett wrote:Its funny how Madrid's defense were by far the weakest of any of Mourinho's teams, from Porto to 04-07 Chelsea to Inter to this Chelsea. Wonder if that had anything to do with the playe....oh wait...it was definitely all his fault.

Funny that the last couple months, the same players (actually worse defensive players because Varane been missing and Modric starts) look better than any Mourinho Madrid team defensively.

Guess that might happen when players actually try and defend rather than mindlessly hack away at people.

by Donuts Thu 13 Feb - 4:33:37

One thing that annoys me from Mourinho fanboys is whatever Mourinho says everyone starts saying
"it's all mind games, genius Mourinho"
someone else says something equally dumb or hypocritical
"what an idiot"
England likes the same old boring show that is constantly being replayed with just a few words changed.

by Blue Barrett Thu 13 Feb - 6:05:09

The Franchise wrote:
Blue Barrett wrote:Its funny how Madrid's defense were by far the weakest of any of Mourinho's teams, from Porto to 04-07 Chelsea to Inter to this Chelsea. Wonder if that had anything to do with the playe....oh wait...it was definitely all his fault.

Funny that the last couple months, the same players (actually worse defensive players because Varane been missing and Modric starts) look better than any Mourinho Madrid team defensively.

Guess that might happen when players actually try and defend rather than mindlessly hack away at people.

They may fit Carlo's system better but it doesn't change the fact that they were horrible under Jose's system. I think you can agree that Chelsea's defense this season(especially after the early season adjustment) has looked outstanding. He didn't suddenly lose his defensive tactics once he got to Madrid. Of course he had his shortcomings, but as I said, the players were to blame for a lot of things too. Don't forget him trying to straighten out the player issues suddenly made him look the devil(Casillas & co).

That's a whole 'nother topic, anyway and for another time. I think I'm taking the thread too OT.

by halamadrid2 Thu 13 Feb - 8:11:46

Blue Barrett wrote:Its funny how Madrid's defense were by far the weakest of any of Mourinho's teams, from Porto to 04-07 Chelsea to Inter to this Chelsea. Wonder if that had anything to do with the playe....oh wait...it was definitely all his fault.

We have only added Carvajal in this "weak" defence and it seems to have worked wonders. Mou just didn't know how to stop us conceding without being ultra defensive

Dont get me started on the set pieces which we never got better in. We would usually outscore the opposition to win.

by halamadrid2 Thu 13 Feb - 8:23:42

Blue Barrett wrote: They may fit Carlo's system better but it doesn't change the fact that they were horrible under Jose's system. I think you can agree that Chelsea's defense this season(especially after the early season adjustment) has looked outstanding. He didn't suddenly lose his defensive tactics once he got to Madrid. Of course he had his shortcomings, but as I said, the players were to blame for a lot of things too. Don't forget him trying to straighten out the player issues suddenly made him look the devil(Casillas & co).

That's a whole 'nother topic, anyway and for another time. I think I'm taking the thread too OT.

They were horrible because all three "sections" of the pitch had their own responsibility. Defenders defend, DM defend, B2B attack and defend, the rest do your thing to make us score. He was not a very good tactician. Anyone with any sort of ability to see knew our glaring weaknesses yet he did nothing to limit them in any way shape or form. Carlo with predominantly the same crop of players has actually made us defensively stable all without taking away from the way we play. There is still lots of improvements to make but he is certainly steering in the right direction. He didn't just turn a blind eye on it because we scored more than the team we met, he did something about it

Mou didn't have a good relationship with the players because he treated them as if they had no emotions. Calling players out in the press instead of in private and creating trouble with other teams that we needed to clean up after him. He was a horrible man-manager

by Le_Force Thu 13 Feb - 12:46:35

Madrid has defensively improved under Ancelotti but it has come with a price, lack of creativity in the middle, less directive approach and slow transision from defense to offense.

Too early to judge, for we know Madrid can collapse by the next year.

by Sponsored content