FC Barcelona - Valencia CF

Dont even know where to start or what to say.So many things wrong.
We just cant defend like this.Either we press completely or we dont press at all.As simple as that.We cant have Alexis and Alves pressing full pelt from the front while our superstar walks around as if he owns the pitch thereby giving the opposition an easy way to pass out the back.And before free_cat comes in defending his precious superstar,just stop.Your nonsensical excuses didnt hold ground before and they most certainly dont hold ground now.

It is not a coincidence that our pressing game,which had improved remarkably in the superstar's absence has now once again gone to garbage now that the superstar is back.And we are leaking goals again.

The way I see it,there are 2 options.We bench the arrogant superstar,teach him a lesson and go back to a high pressing game with players who are willing to put in the effort.I am convinced that with the players we have,its the only way we can defend effectively and it in line with our principles.Thats my preferred way.
The second option involves the superstar playing.But then we dont press at all.We accept that the superstar considers himself above the team and accomodate his selfish interests.As soon as we lose the ball,the 2 wide forwards drop back.They dont press and neither do the fullbacks,especially Alves.As soon as we lose the ball high,Alves drops back to defend in the back 4.Sanchez and Pedro drop deep.Busquets in front of the defense.Then a line of 4 in front of him.And our superstar continues his favorite hobby of walking around as if he owns the pitch.

Coming to the players in the game,Busquets had another atrocious game.By far the worst player on the pitch.Continuing with his poor season.Sloppy passes as usual,trying to be too clever,getting caught in no man's land and poor decisions throughout.Also looks woefully out of shape as he was gassed half the time.I think its time to bench him in favor of Song.
fabregas had another invisible game.I think its time to see the writing on the wall.He just cant play CM for us.He is a 10 and we cant play him there as that is reserved for our superstar.So either offload him or change our system to ammodate two 10's in the team(like thats going to work).
Messi had another poor game.He just ruins the entire dynamic of the team and it is no surprise that we have been poor ever since he has come back.he insists on dropping into midfield every single time,thereby forcing Xavi out of there.Instead of staying up,he keeps dropping thereby ruining our positional play and movement.If he wants to play as a 10 or a CM,then I suggest he find another team.
Also didnt understand Tata's changes.He subs out Xavi,who was probably our best player on the night and then he subs out Fab too minutes later.Meanwhile he keeps on Busquets who was having a stinker and we are chasing the game.He should have taken off Busquets for Iniesta or Tello.Fab plays alongside Xavi in the pivot.
Messi as the 10 with Alexis in front of him.Pedro and Iniesta/Tello either side of him.far more dangerous and we retain the ball far better.With Xavi out we just couldnt keep the ball and barely created any chances.Massive fail from tata there.

vivabarca38 wrote:Other than Alba,Valdes,Pedro,Busi,Iniesta and  Masche(In recent games)I'm not happy with how anyone in the whole squad is performing tbf.Alves has been a disaster since his return and I have a feeling he will stay at this level.

You are happy with how Busquets and Iniesta are performing.They have been our 2 worst midfielders this season.Barring the Madrid game and a couple of others,Iniesta has not really done much and Busquets continuing with his poor form,pretty much cost us the game yesterday.Alba had a great game against Malaga but was poor yesterday.Again inconsistent.

The 30-year-old claimed he felt like the Spanish champions "were playing away from home" during their 3-2 loss to Valencia on Saturday

Dani Alves has criticised the Camp Nou crowd following Barcelona's 3-2 defeat at home to Valencia on Saturday.

Alexis Sanchez and Lionel Messi each had to help the Catalans restore parity after Daniel Parejo and Pablo Piatti twice put the visitors in front, but Gerardo Martino's men were powerless to stop Pablo Alcacer's winner.

"Sometimes it feels like we're playing away from home," the Brazilian full-back told reporters after the match. "The connection [between the team and fans] has to be positive.

"We lost and have to get back up. There's no time for regrets. We have to be mature and learn from defeat so it does not happen again. We must aim to control the whole game, not just a stretch.

"We dropped three points whilst controlling the game. We scored, then became too predictable. It is not a problem of overconfidence. Losing the lead in La Liga today is not important."

Sergio Busquets praised the quality of the victors at Camp Nou and rued the way that the 10-man Catalans - following Jordi Alba's sending off - allowed los Che to make the hosts pay for their profligacy.

"It had been a long time since we had lost here," the midfielder said after a run of 25 La Liga home wins in a row was ended. "It’s an untimely slip-up.

"Valencia made the most of their weapons and we were unable to do more. They’re in better shape under their new coach, and they have really good players.

"We started well. We played well for the first hour and created a lot of scoring chances. Then they played their hand and we didn’t play well. It’s unfortunate."

Yeah, said it during the game. Camp Nou looked half empty. You could see the "Mes que un club" writing shining through the seats. And those who were there were mainly tourists taking photographs. Worst home support ever.

alexjanosik wrote:

vivabarca38 wrote:Other than Alba,Valdes,Pedro,Busi,Iniesta and  Masche(In recent games)I'm not happy with how anyone in the whole squad is performing tbf.Alves has been a disaster since his return and I have a feeling he will stay at this level.

You are happy with how Busquets and Iniesta are performing.They have been our 2 worst midfielders this season.Barring the Madrid game and a couple of others,Iniesta has not really done much and Busquets continuing with his poor form,pretty much cost us the game yesterday.Alba had a great game against Malaga but was poor yesterday.Again inconsistent.

It was more like these are the players I dont want us to buy replacements for.

Busquets should be benched as default from now on. By no means I'm a fan of Song (been his biggest critic since his early Arsenal days) but for the "greater good" and longevity of the team he should be starting the games. The Spaniard is either too comfortable or too tired, or both. He has had the luxury of having little competition for his position and this should end now. And before anyone jumps on me I repeated the above since the beginning of the season, this is NOT a response to his yesterday's performance

Regarding Piqué, I think he had improved his game by upping his intensity this season but yesterday he played an awful game. You sometimes catch him for 10+ seconds without watching around him and only looking at the ball. Bad habit for a defender. My father used to say a defender should either be clever or a loco (by that he meant crazy). Unfortunately Piqué has neither quality.

I think the criticism of Fàbregas is unfair. He didn't have the best of games but he was working very hard and was one of the players that could create things in the centre of the pitch. In short, more useful than Pedro and Alexis.

On to the tactical side, Messi should press. Unfortunately this is modern football where success depends on fitness and intensity not flair and fantasy. But no need to label the Argentine arrogant, selfish and shizzle like that, you weaken the credibility of your argument by calling names.

Like already said by Alex, I dont even know where to begin with this.

I guess the best way would be for me to complain about things I usually dont complain about.

For example, I could talk about how poor Messi is without the ball. Or how Alba cant defend. Or how invisible Cesc is in midfield...but that would be beating a dead horse wouldnt it? I said it a million times and the same set of people will agree and the same set of people with disagree. So what is the point?

No, instead I will talk about some things which are slightly less obvious. Though I at the same time expect the people who know what they are looking at already saw it.

First of all, I feel like a big reason for the loss was we failed take advantage of the numerous chances to make it 2-0. If we made it 2-0, it changes the psychology of the game totally and im quite sure we go on to win.

The chances?

Not without accident, they all involve Messi's inclusion back into the team.

There were two chances which stood out to me.

First, Messi leads a 4 v 3 counter attacks. Jordi Alba makes a run to the left, wide open...instead of making a routine pass for what would be a almost certain goal, Messi dribbles and dribbles completely ignoring Alba only to shoot and get his shot blocked. Incredible level of selfishness.

And the second, another counter. Pedro has the ball on the left, Messi makes a run (for a change) to the left, two defenders follow him and Cesc is wide open on the right for what would be a 1 v 1 with the goalie. Of course, Pedro see's only "the Messiah" and makes a pass where Messi is already crowded out and again has his shot block.

After this, there would other chances but these two were by far the biggest and most indicative of what the team looks like with Messi vs without. No question in my mind, if that wasnt Messi in there, those correct passes would of been made.

After that, complete bs ensued.

As I said before the start of the season, our midfield is pathetically unathletic. The fail completely in midfield transitions to defence. Cesc and Xavi are often late to trying to track runners or dribblers and Busquets has to cover more space than he is capable of...because he himself is athletic.

Making matters worse, Alexis is running from leftback to centerback pressing the ball while Messi stands around watching and it seems the only player capable of winning the ball in midfield is him or Pedro.

To add further problems, Alba like I said, cant defend at all.

But even all of that, pales in comparison to that goal from throw in. That is playground level defending. How is a player free inside the box from a throw in....and even when he received the ball, Busquets, Mascherano and I think Cesc, all make the softest most whimpish attempts to tackle....Xabi Alonso says being able to tackle isnt a skill..I would point right there and say, "really?"

I noticed the players we annoyed by the ref, and I saw reason for that. After awarding us a pen, the ref did what they all do...because he gave us a decision he wasnt 100% sure on, the rest of the way every 50-50 call went to them. However, the players should not complain because the penalty itself was complete rubbish and not a penalty at all.

The one thing which stood out to me was a point in the second half. Messi has the ball, he dribbles 2 players and gets it stolen by a 3rd. He doesnt try and win it back, but the ball rebounds luckily back into his path..without even a thought to pass, he tries to dribble again and loses it immediately. It looked as pathetic as I made it sound.

I took some time to reflect, thinking I overreacted. But the more I think about the game the more I agree with what i said yesterday (bar the comparison with CR tracking back which was just an angry rant from me).

I completely agree with The Franchise and co. It is not only Messi who is at fault, but once he is on the team, he is an ABSOLUTE team focus. And in such cases if he is not good, the whole team fails, so it is normal to hold him responsible. I mean I am his fan, but the walking crap has to stop. It is so annoying!

Also, i am saying from the beginning we got Alba, he should not be paired with Alves against even mid-table sides. He is good in overlaps and attack, but having two additional wingers (sometimes-backs) is suicide. Alves can at least defend when he wants, Alba is like playing bingo, sometimes he does, most of the times he is crap. We do need a substitute for Alves, someone of Abidals format. Possibly a young one that could jell in while Alves is getting old, and we are left with Abi 2.0 and Alba.

When i think about the state of the team, and the economy, Rosell really managed to screw it up badly. He was here to build good economical ground for the team, and he destroyed everything that was good in it. He destroyed the kit by putting sponsors, while he destroyed the economy with crazy transfer. He put a stain on our name with this transfer and he did not address any of the issues the team had.

So basically, Messi is turning into a far less athletic version of CR7... which can't work because he can't bulldozer people. Not that CR7 works for me personally anyhow, but that's another story.

Messi is more like Ibrahimovic. Everything has to revolve around him. He can't be just the part of a unit anymore. I don't even blame him personally. The guys around him have no personality whatsoever. Pedro, Sanchez, even Neymar (although he's new, that's why). They just pass to him because they think it gives them extra points when they pass to Messi all the time. And it probably does looking at Messi's relationship with Villa who didn't always pass to him. The guy has been injured for 6 weeks and some players couldn't stop praising him and how we were "missing the best player in the world" even when we were winning and playing good football, as if we had to excuse winning without Messi. Neymar was briefed to tell the press 989063 times after his arrival that he wouldn't "rival" Messi and only "try to help Messi becoming better." The president himself publicly said that every player in the squad could leave if they wanted except Messi, basically shitting on the entire squad. The club is a total joke right now.

The fact no one has taken the time to talk about how bad Valdes, Sanchez, Mascherano and Cesc were and only focus on Messi is shocking.. i guess the new thing to do is blame everything including defending/goalkeeping on Messi.

FFS Sociedad just bent over for for Atleti. Now heres for Bilbao not dining the some for RM.

sportsczy wrote:So basically, Messi is turning into a far less athletic version of CR7... which can't work because he can't bulldozer people.   Not that CR7 works for me personally anyhow, but that's another story.

The only thing that they have in common is that they are both selfish, in this game, and they are the players that runs the less in their respective club. Nothing more. Apart from this game, Messi has been playing alot more like a playmaker and wasn't really that selfish.

Donuts wrote:The fact no one has taken the time to talk about how bad Valdes, Sanchez, Mascherano and Cesc were and only focus on Messi is shocking.. i guess the new thing to do is blame everything including defending/goalkeeping on Messi.

No, just the star player gets most of the credit when it goes well and most of the blame when it goes bad. Thats the life  of a star and always has been.

Plus, Mascherano we have already established sucks, Valdes has been criticised for a decade, maybe half a dozen the people here want Cesc out of the club and Alexis scored.

Stop being a fanboy for once, yeah?

Also its not a "fact" at all, because minus Alexis, all of those players have been talked about.

The Franchise wrote:

Donuts wrote:The fact no one has taken the time to talk about how bad Valdes, Sanchez, Mascherano and Cesc were and only focus on Messi is shocking.. i guess the new thing to do is blame everything including defending/goalkeeping on Messi.

No, just the star player gets most of the credit when it goes well and most of the blame when it goes bad. Thats the life  of a star and always has been.

Plus, Mascherano we have already established sucks, Valdes has been criticised for a decade, maybe half a dozen the people here want Cesc out of the club and Alexis scored.

Stop being a fanboy for once, yeah?

Also its not a "fact" at all, because minus Alexis, all of those players have been talked about.

really? read the on since page two.
i am not going to bother putting a statistic on how many posts had to do with Messi and how many had to do with the rest of the team.
none other than I talked about Valdes massive flop
none in this thread talked about Pedro, or Pique / Mascherano (except one poster)
lastly, no one bar harmonica has given all the credit to Messi for success in the past years, it's a mix between our midfield, Pep, and Messi so please get off your high horse.
stop being ignorant for once, yeah?

Messi has nothing to do here. Team were bad even before Messi. They lost two games against likes of celtic and bilbao. And then won other game with difficulty scoring two penalties and so on.

Only time team looked good was against third division team in copa del rey and bottom teams in la liga. Even with messi they would look good at those easy games

As for walking, messi got injured because of too much pressing in the beginning of season. And people blamed Tata for making Messi to press like that. Now he came back from injury and doctors advise is to take it easy. Messi does what coaches tell him and the fact is he was pressing before injury

As for game Messi didnt pass to Alba once, because nobody imagined it will be hard game. Messi thought it will be easy game and he wanted to be selfish and score after 8 games. Its very normal and every human being would do the same. Other than that there was no open space which messi didnt pass. He is not selfish as he is the man who made 6-7 assists in last 3 games

As for his dribbling, theres nothing wrong. I read some say if it was no messi he would pass to others. If there was no messi there would not be that space. Its the messi who opens 20 m space. Its his dribbling which drags 3-4 defenders and others seem in free spaces. So saying others would pass to others in free space without messi is ridiculous

Messi is not the problem as team was garbage even before Messi. They only looked good vs weakest teams which even barca's b team would trash them. We saw the team without messi last season against PSG and others in la liga. How many times messi came from bench and saved the score? Why didnt they play great without Messi? 3-4 games vs bottom teams this season made you think that team is better without Messi? What a shame really. How easily people change their mind its just unbelievable

For all of you mentioning me about Messi.

I never said Messi shouldn't press at all. You can check out all my posts and you won't find that statement. I said Messi shouldn't run too much and headlessly close everyone down and gets injured every 3 weeks.

Between his excess of running at the beginning of the season and his walkfest of Saturday there's a healthy middle ground where he runs a couple of meters when the ball is lost and he is nearby and he jogs to a defender to difficult the opposition build up. That's what he should do.

Donuts wrote:

The Franchise wrote:

Donuts wrote:The fact no one has taken the time to talk about how bad Valdes, Sanchez, Mascherano and Cesc were and only focus on Messi is shocking.. i guess the new thing to do is blame everything including defending/goalkeeping on Messi.

No, just the star player gets most of the credit when it goes well and most of the blame when it goes bad. Thats the life  of a star and always has been.

Plus, Mascherano we have already established sucks, Valdes has been criticised for a decade, maybe half a dozen the people here want Cesc out of the club and Alexis scored.

Stop being a fanboy for once, yeah?

Also its not a "fact" at all, because minus Alexis, all of those players have been talked about.

really? read the on since page two.
i am not going to bother putting a statistic on how many posts had to do with Messi and how many had to do with the rest of the team.
none other than I talked about Valdes massive flop
none in this thread talked about Pedro, or Pique / Mascherano (except one poster)
lastly, no one bar harmonica has given all the credit to Messi for success in the past years, it's a mix between our midfield, Pep, and Messi so please get off your high horse.
stop being ignorant for once, yeah?

Yeah, people are talking more about Messi...because we expect more from him...and he was worse.

Your wrong, I think futbol it was, he was saying how Valdes luckily is going to get replaced by someone better and how they are only 21. That to me was a clear shot at his questionable performance on Saturday.

Fine...Messi doesnt get ALL the credit, but he gets most of it...and that is right..he was totally instrumental to the team and our success was a whole lot to do with him.

However, Saturday was alot down to him.

I dont see what your problem is really. He is getting criticism because he rightly deserves it, more than others.

Why would anyone hold Pedro to the same level of responsibility as Messi? I talked about the mistake he made, but that's all you can do...much of what Messi was doing wrong, was not just mistakes, it was attitude.

Finally, I think you will find most people, if the players give their 100% best, but make mistakes...they are less harsh on them...but when someone who is far more talented, doesn't give their all, people will be pissed off.

Soft, soft defending.. gave Valencia the belief to win

jugster wrote:Soft, soft defending.. gave Valencia the belief to win

no this video is bs
all the goals were Messi's fault not the defending, not the keeping, not the midfield. MESSI

Wow....just saw this thread, didnt see the match, but it sounded terrible, which doesnt appear so? It was 2-3....and we have problems, dont this surely is a bit overreation?

BarcaLearning wrote:Wow....just saw this thread, didnt see the match, but it sounded terrible, which doesnt appear so? It was 2-3....and we have problems, dont this surely is a bit overreation?

It is a slight overreaction, but this Valencia is the worst in ages, and they just offloaded half of their team. We lead 1-0 for 30-40 min and at the slightest sign of pressure from Valencia we crumble. We are at a very important part of the season loosing home points which is really bad. And what Valencia did was pretty simple, pressure our inexistent defense and shut down Messi who was shooting blanks like CR and loosing balls to let Valencia attack even more. Funny thing is that this is something that we see repeating and there is no solution. If we can't overcome this issue against worst Valencia in ages in Camp Nou, then what can we expect from the team? So, it is not a big overreaction. It is normal one! We lost a lot of point since Messi came back, and everybody was expecting a different outcome.

I just hope this was a fluke game where team really underestimated Valencia really badly.

Going down isn't easy guys. I feel you all.

Simply put, this is just a case of Valencia going up (somehow) and Barca coming down. No sense in randomly pointing the finger at your best players and especially at Messi who played well IMO.

jugster wrote:Soft, soft defending.. gave Valencia the belief to win

Notice how in the first goal Alba, rather than get up and start defending, just drops to the ground after his failed tackle and feints injury... ffs this is not the first time he does this and it makes my blood boil.

Alba and Busquets involved in all three goals conceded. Seriously can't understand why as soon as Alba became fit he became an automatic starter, considering Adriano was much more superior.

I always consider fit Adriano much better than Alba, like way way better.

The defending for the third goal is absolutely ridiculous. The amount of standing around and giving up. How a player like Feghouli got through 4 Barca players...

I've always considered Adriano better than Alba, this horrorshow of a defensive display from Alba only consolidates that opinion for me. Busquets was indeed bad, and very off form in this game.

As for Messi, I remember one instance where someone made a bad pass to him, and a Valencia player had it not 4 short steps away from him, and Messi did not move, but simply walked around like "how could you give me a bad pass?". That is what gets me. It is not even that he played selfishly this game and lost several balls trying to dribble, it is not even that when he wasn't being selfish that he was dropping far too deep into the midfield, and it's not that he missed an easy chance (it happens). He was not very good, in my opinion. Off days happen- but his attitude clearly needs to change. We've been over this for some time now, though.