Torres then vs Suarez now

Art Morte wrote:Obviously Suarez. He's a top-5 footballer in the world, imo, Torres never was anything like that.

McAgger wrote:Nish being a big game player isn't only about stats ffs. Like for example a couple of weeks ago at the Etihad, Suarez was the best player on the pitch  but no one will remember that.

HEIL MEIN REDS wrote:Bitey Boy , somehow recently I have started liking him again after the summer saga

Arquitescu wrote:Disgusted by the prejudice given to Torres' legacy in Liverpool. Right in his first season he scored 33 goals for our team and followed the years up with wonderful performances. Do we all forget that Torres had an injury ridden career within Liverpool yet came back every time to break records on a goal to minutes ratio, within games big or small or service or no service?

Suarez is a world class player yet can be frustrating at times especially when faced versus defences of higher calibre who have slowly learned how to phase him out of games; a recent occurrence.

We can talk about Suarez' traits yet we forget Torres' ability to create space by his movement and link-up play and leading the line far better than Suarez, along with his presence alone to which had us play far better than without him.

And yes, Torres was the best pure striker in the world on form, only David Villa matching his calibre as there wasn't a game that we did not expect that Torres would not score in.

I suspect that Torres' tarnished legacy within us Red family has tainted the memory of his performances, in stark comparison to Suarez who is the fan favourite. I sense a subjective bias to which has created a nonsensical disparity based on the emotional vector between both players.

Sit down and try to remember who Torres was for us and Suarez was before his truly world class year (this season).  

Red Alert wrote:

Arquitescu wrote:Disgusted by the prejudice given to Torres' legacy in Liverpool. Right in his first season he scored 33 goals for our team and followed the years up with wonderful performances. Do we all forget that Torres had an injury ridden career within Liverpool yet came back every time to break records on a goal to minutes ratio, within games big or small or service or no service?

Suarez is a world class player yet can be frustrating at times especially when faced versus defences of higher calibre who have slowly learned how to phase him out of games; a recent occurrence.

We can talk about Suarez' traits yet we forget Torres' ability to create space by his movement and link-up play and leading the line far better than Suarez, along with his presence alone to which had us play far better than without him.

And yes, Torres was the best pure striker in the world on form, only David Villa matching his calibre as there wasn't a game that we did not expect that Torres would not score in.

I suspect that Torres' tarnished legacy within us Red family has tainted the memory of his performances, in stark comparison to Suarez who is the fan favourite. I sense a subjective bias to which has created a nonsensical disparity based on the emotional vector between both players.

Sit down and try to remember who Torres was for us and Suarez was before his truly world class year (this season).  

No denying Torres' class at Liverpool. But Suarez is superior.  

You have to just compare the two teams they played with.

Torres (who was a striker/finisher) played alongside a team that was arguably the best in Europe. We had a world class team when we had Alonso, prime Gerrard etc. There was no denying Torres was arguably one of the best strikers in the world when he was with us, considering the team was built around him.

But then you look at Luis' time here. Who did Luis play when he was signed? The only real player that was "good" was an ageing Gerrard. Dirk Kuyt was out of his prime here but did well with him for 6 months or so. Maxi was good, but was frozen out later to accomodate Downing... to accomodate Carroll. It's clear Luis has played in a WAYYYY inferior team and has stats very similiar to Torres and Luis was never that great of a finisher at Ajax. He was a playmaker, a second striker. He's only really adapted to being the complete player he is today because he's carried us for 3 years. Thankfully, he now has Sturridge and Coutinho (who's still very young...) to help take the burden off of him. Still think we need another player to help him out, but that's for another thread.

And the text highlighted in red is just false, and I'm surprised you believe the myth. Suarez gets absolutely NO SERVICE away from home. He's pretty much the only player in the final third when we're on the road. He gets no support whatsoever, so it's clear he's not going to be a threat to teams of the higher calibre when it's him against the rest. Look at the game against City or Spurs for example. We played our game, as a team, and Luis was a standout player. Look at the games against Chelsea and Arsenal, and you'll see he's isolated up front.

And I'd like examples of the part highlighted in blue. We play with 9 men behind the ball when Luis doesn't play... results have really blinded the performances of majority of our games. :S

Arquitescu wrote:This is a good response, YNWA.

But the debate is who was the better player for us, rather than what they were afforded in terms of tactics, players around them and systema. See, the other side of the debate is that Suarez is made to look better given that the team quality is nowhere near what it was in Rafa's finest year, for example.

Service? That is another good point as under Kenny and Rodgers, we have been a team under tactical transition checkpoints, rather than the system that Benitez refined until conviction for Fernando Torres.

I am not saying that Torres flops versus big defences, as believe me as I have been defending him on that versus say, Mole this whole season now. Yet I do think versus more physical and compact defences, who have slowly learned to isolated him, that he is not as influential as he is versus the more inept defences. This though, is probably harsh considering 2 big games played without Danny, forcing him on the shoulder and out of his natural (indirect role) along with our midfield being dominated by the opposition. What I appreciate about Suarez is how he has evolved his game and become less frustrating compared to last year, where his slightly predictable repertoire, has now been eliminated.

Examples in blue? Well Suarez' indirect play is not one that leads the line supremely unless thwarted by a direct threat in the form of Sturridge. Leading the line is an underrated trait to CFs off-the-ball perform quite well, and keep in mind I prefer what Torres produces off-the-ball as compared to Suarez. This also can be debated as Suarez unpredictable movement off-the-ball also, is wonderful. It is just that I prefer Torres' cleaner movement which helps the midfield calibrate where to pass along with his strength and ability to acquire the ball from any angle.

You must understand that the premise of my debate was to highlight the unnecessary disparity our posters created between Torres & Suarez, some of them for more subjective reasons. It is not to highlight that Torres is a superior player OR even if Torres has a superior legacy; but to ask for us to cherish what was an unstoppable force in prime Fernando, essentially not to far off from Suarez' legacy so far in LFC; if not equal.

mr-r34 wrote:
Is anyone still bitter about Torres leaving for Chelsea? Surley not, if we got 35mil for him we would of had a good deal, in all honesty 50mil was a great deal, the only reason it seemed shit was cause we wasted it all on rejects.