2014 Brazil World Cup Group Stage Draw Discussion

Arquitescu wrote:Despite Germany having chronic problems vs Italia; their incurred losses were never quite a matter to laugh at as the were and always have been the pinnacle of international football between the historical European giants. I choose never to chortle Germany as I know the day is very near (in Brazil) that Germany will overcome their woes vs Italia and possibly even go on to win the World Cup.

The rivalry is one of respect, as the matches serve testament to the history between the sides, as despite Germany's losses they have put an extraordinary fight onto the Italians every single time. The matches have been spectacular as have the showcasing of tactics & technique between the squads as I fear Germany no matter how much our history supports us.

There is no better match in international football for me.  

Awwww come on, it's not a rivalry until we win once. Just like we don't have a rivalry with England until they win once (without the ref just handing them the win).

I agree though, the matches always were very interesting to watch. The tactical ineptitude that made the Italian win all too easy in 2012 still stings, though, and I always side on rather wanting to avoid Italy, if possible. Though I sure would love to win a world cup final against Italy. Banish those demons for good.

Regarding the draw, our group is decent, could've been better or worse. We got arguably rather tough teams from the 'weak' pots, on the other hand there is no team in the group I fear facing. The USA will probably make us work the hardest for the win, while Portugal is most likely to beat us if they catch us off beat. Ghana aren't pushovers, for sure.

If we top our group, at least we most likely have an easy ride to the semis.

VivaStPauli wrote:

Arquitescu wrote:Despite Germany having chronic problems vs Italia; their incurred losses were never quite a matter to laugh at as the were and always have been the pinnacle of international football between the historical European giants. I choose never to chortle Germany as I know the day is very near (in Brazil) that Germany will overcome their woes vs Italia and possibly even go on to win the World Cup.

The rivalry is one of respect, as the matches serve testament to the history between the sides, as despite Germany's losses they have put an extraordinary fight onto the Italians every single time. The matches have been spectacular as have the showcasing of tactics & technique between the squads as I fear Germany no matter how much our history supports us.

There is no better match in international football for me.  

Awwww come on, it's not a rivalry until we win once. Just like we don't have a rivalry with England until they win once (without the ref just handing them the win).

I agree though, the matches always were very interesting to watch. The tactical ineptitude that made the Italian win all too easy in 2012 still stings, though, and I always side on rather wanting to avoid Italy, if possible. Though I sure would love to win a world cup final against Italy. Banish those demons for good.

Regarding the draw, our group is decent, could've been better or worse. We got arguably rather tough teams from the 'weak' pots, on the other hand there is no team in the group I fear facing. The USA will probably make us work the hardest for the win, while Portugal is most likely to beat us if they catch us off beat. Ghana aren't pushovers, for sure.

If we top our group, at least we most likely have an easy ride to the semis.

I choose not to base rivalry purely on results yet closer to the tactical depth and the difficulty one team causes another-choosing to base it purely on results would demean what this rivalry truly is about. Euro 2012 was an exception to which cannot abolish just how much trouble Germany truly cause Italia no matter how many times we win; as you'll be surprised to know how many Italians acknowledge this. England is a different substance given their lack of threat within the core parts of the match. Germany vs Italia 2006 and the two recent friendlies between us (2010 and 2013) are pure testament of it.


Personally it is in my opinion that you may be overestimating your group.

-Ghana is a team that is beyond there fine years of form in which their core veterans who composed their team are well past it while KPB is a player who has fantastically regressed. I find their strength to be overestimated.

-Portugal have turned into a two-way locomotive. Ronaldo has recently began to turn up for them yet Moutinho remains their best player for the Seleccao. If he can be nullified, Ronaldo is thoroughly subdued as he is not the same monster as he is for Real Madrid. As a team they are quite poor and can be tactically exploited, even more so by  Löw's system which usually succeed versus such exploitable sides. A team of individuals, Portugal are. Trick to isolating Ronaldo for Portugal is to isolate him wide, which has been proven by tacticians in Del Bosque, Bilic, Hitzfeld and Capello who had a poor left back acutely isolate him.

-USA is an anomaly. On one side they mostly have found success in what is a weak CONCACAF division, yet have proven their mental fortitude in friendlies vs bigger sides. Under Klinsmann they have finally evolved past the Bob Bradley era yet remain untested imo. Löw is a superior tactician as it is, so that should be a tangible advantage. USA for me is the groups 2nd best team after Germany.

Since when is overachieving called choking? The Germany choking thing gets on my nerves. Progressing to the late stages of tournaments with some of the worst Germany squads of all time demonstrates resilience, not choking. The only time that could be considered choking is 2012, and that was Jogi choking with his stupid line up for the game, not the players. 2002? Overachieved and got to the finals and lost against a superior Brazil (granted, we missed Ballack, our only world class player besides Oliver Kahn). 2006? Still not a good Germany team, made it to the semi finals and lost against a superior team (despite home field advantage, I don't see how this can be called choking). 2008? Again overachieved and made the finals and simply lost against a superior team. Before those tournaments (except 2006 due to home field advantage) according to Germany's squad quality nobody would've picked them to win it or even make it far. 2010? Half our team got injured before the World Cup and we called up some internationally unknown youngsters who never played together before. Miraculously, we whooped some butt at the world cup only to get robbed by that ref who suspended Mueller, which severely impacted the team because of how crucial and irreplacable he is (had to start Trochowski instead) and then lost against Spain who were considered the favorite before the tournament started. This is supposed to be choking??? Are you guys serious? 2012? Fine, I'll agree to the choking. But I'm still under the opinion that it was only the coach choking. If that idiot hadn't started Schweinsteiger who was obviously not fit to play and out of form still due to numerous injuries in the season, or start Podolski over Reus or Kroos in the right wing over Muller, and play Mario Gomez who always kills Germany's flow, I think we should have beaten Italy who obviously don't have our overall quality at the moment (excuse the arrogance). Jogi shat his pants facing Italy and knee jerked with the line up instead of us playing the way we're good at with our best line up (not saying there shouldn't have been any tactical adjustments, but still...).

Lmao

Spoiler:

I'm secretly hoping that Italy will finish 2nd in their group so they'll take care of Brazil in the 4ths and Germany in the semis.

italy havent won against us in 30 years, i would be more worried about Uruguay, even if they are crap they always seem to play at 120% vs us

Motogp69 wrote:Of the teams in the group the only team getting any points off of Germany would be the United States. Not sure we will, but if we do all we need to do is beat Ghana and draw Portugal and we're going through. The only "OMG" factor to the group is because of the historical implications of the group.

Portugal losing to the US in the Confederations Cup, and Ghana historically being our bogey team in tournaments.

I feel confident we'll advance to the next round, but we'll be playing a very good Belgium team when we get there.

I think a lot of us are looking just at the initial group stage and not seeing the whole picture. While some teams have an easier group initially, things get dire in the next round. Brazil could be screwed in this regard if Spain is slow out of the gate, as they usually are, and end up as runners-up in their group setting up an early clash with Brazil in the next round.

wtf is this. Previous encounters don't mean shit. The US beating Spain in 2009 has no say in what happens in 2014.

Germany and Portugal are leagues ahead of Ghana and USA.

I will laugh my a** off when Ghana beats Germany and USA and have Portugal begging them to "help" them qualify....

the way most of you underestimate Ghana is too funny.....

7amood11 wrote:

Motogp69 wrote:Of the teams in the group the only team getting any points off of Germany would be the United States. Not sure we will, but if we do all we need to do is beat Ghana and draw Portugal and we're going through. The only "OMG" factor to the group is because of the historical implications of the group.

Portugal losing to the US in the Confederations Cup, and Ghana historically being our bogey team in tournaments.

I feel confident we'll advance to the next round, but we'll be playing a very good Belgium team when we get there.

I think a lot of us are looking just at the initial group stage and not seeing the whole picture. While some teams have an easier group initially, things get dire in the next round. Brazil could be screwed in this regard if Spain is slow out of the gate, as they usually are, and end up as runners-up in their group setting up an early clash with Brazil in the next round.

wtf is this. Previous encounters don't mean shit. The US beating Spain in 2009 has no say in what happens in 2014.

Germany and Portugal are leagues ahead of Ghana and USA.

I didn't say they meant anything, but the history will provide the "context and storylines" for why this group was "OMG" to the media at first.