Barclay's Premier League discussion '13-'14 V3

And to think Arsenal had a clean sheet on Liverpool earlier...  

Is what happens when Suarez comes up against a proper defence, not the TLC scrubs they have at Norwich

Even United under Moyes has a better record away from home than we do.

We lost to Arsenal because of Rodgers. We played 2 in the middle against a team that consistently plays with 5, and we played 3 at the back. "SAS" had no support.

Rodgers' experiments / tactical decisions this season have been horrible, we've hardly dominated any team in the league. I mean, "SAS" has dominated more teams than we have as a team.

We're gonna get relegated

ynwa again with the pessimistic bs and his hate on Rodgers. I bet if you were told we'd be sitting 4th by December, 5 points ahead of United and only 3 off 2nd place, you would've jumped for joy.

I'm sorry but we haven't nearly as bad as you make us sound.

Damn. Reading your post, I feel like we're going to fight for the league. I've seen the light, thank you McAgger.

No but seriously, I'm sorry if I'm not deluded and I've taken off the red tinted glasses thinking that we're playing well, because we haven't. Without Suarez, we'd be A LOT worse than United are right now. Especially with Daniel out. We're putting in the same performances as we did in the second half of Dalglish's second stint as permanent manager.

Natalie Portman wrote:We're gonna get relegated

We're bad, but we're not that bad.

If we continue playing how we are, we won't finish top 4. In fact, if we continue to play how we are, BOTH Spurs AND United will pass us by the end of the season. You can quote me on that. We're a one man team right now.

Without Suarez we'd be shit, and without my penis, Id be a girl. We are ahead of spurs n united because we've been better than them over the course of the season so far. Subsequently we are behind Chelsea, city and arsenal, because they've been better than us. It's really this simple for me. I was the first person to worry about out midfield after swansea game that we went first, but I really think you're doing a great disservice to dismiss absolutely everything about our season so far. We haven't played to half of our potential yet, but we are on track with our target and one month away from being able to strengthen in the area everyone and their dogs know we must strengthen.

We haven't played to half of our potential but we've been okay?

"Sign of a good team that can play shit, but still get the points"....how many times have we heard this. Having said that, I think only arsenal in the league have played up to their potential so far. Chelsea are getting there but that's because they are a team full of winners and long mentality of winning at any cost. Trust me, I'm as frustrated as the next person about our away performances, but I'm hoping in January we can address the pedestrian midfield that gets shown up away from home. I am one of the most anti-BR guy you'll ind here, but even I give him credit for making teams fear Anfield again. Outlet home form is up there with the absolute very best and that's something we used to moan about for half a decade.

Your 'without Suarez' comment is nonsense. Why do you keep saying that? We are not without Suarez. He is part of the team. Without Rooney, United wouldn't have half of their points. Without Aguero, City wouldn't half of their points. Without Ramsey, etc, etc.

And it's a myth that we haven't played nearly as good as our potential bs. We played amazingly well against Fulham, one of the best performances in a long time. We also played comfortably well against Norwich, Crystal Pulis, Sunderland, West Brom. So what if Suarez and Sturridge were the integral part of us picking up points in those matches. We are build like that ffs. We are built so that we take maximum out of our two star forwards.

Red Alert wrote:
If we continue playing how we are, we won't finish top 4. In fact, if we continue to play how we are, BOTH Spurs AND United will pass us by the end of the season. You can quote me on that. We're a one man team right now.

If we continue exactly how we are and keep averaging 2 points out of 3, then we'll have 76 points at the end of the season and we'll comfortably finish in the top 4.

Yes, but we're now average on the road at the same time and you just can't. You need balance. You need to play whoever, whenever. It's not just the midfield, it's EVERYBODY. That includes Rodgers and his stupid tactics when it comes to away games.  

We haven't even been a good team this season. Again, the top 3 players of the season stand out. SAS and Mignolet make up the top 3. Maybe Skrtel / Sakho to make it top 5. I know you hate Skrtel, but he's been our best defender this season. Anyway, the rest of the team has been average. Those main 3 have carried us, there's no other way to put it.

When they don't play, Liverpool is bad. No other player in the squad stands up and goes "I'll take the responsibility when player X is out of form". As of right now, the rest of the squad has "bottled" it. We honestly had a chance to get a distant lead from the people that had "slow" starts but we didn't. Instead, we experimented. Why? I don't know. If Suarez wasn't playing out of his skin right now, we'd be in the same "crisis" United and Spurs are in.

BR this season has been very frustrating. Both on AND off the pitch. Just wish he gets his crap together, and fixes the problems. I don't want another "failed" project, I'm sick of this mediocrity the team has just "accepted" in the last 5 years.

Not really tbh. We can afford to lose most of the games against the top teams. As long as we are a flat track bully everything is fine. Winning the matches against the bottom 10 alone gives you 60 points. We just have to plan accordingly. Play all these winnable matches like cup finals. The fact that we lost Hull City, now means we definitely have to win one of the 3 away matches (Spurs, Chelsea, City).

McAgger wrote:Your 'without Suarez' comment is nonsense. Why do you keep saying that? We are not without Suarez. He is part of the team. Without Rooney, United wouldn't have half of their points. Without Aguero, City wouldn't half of their points. Without Ramsey, etc, etc.

And it's a myth that we haven't played nearly as good as our potential bs. We played amazingly well against Fulham, one of the best performances in a long time. We also played comfortably well against Norwich, Crystal Pulis, Sunderland, West Brom. So what if Suarez and Sturridge were the integral part of us picking up points in those matches. We are build like that ffs. We are built so that we take maximum out of our two star forwards.

City have a system under Pellegrini, Aguero is just in some good form. They have goals from EVERYWHERE in the squad, it's not just him carrying them.
Rooney is carrying United yes, they're considered to be in a crisis, no? Why? No system at OT.
Arsenal have both the depth AND quality to play around Ramsey. Ramsey is just playing his role IN a system. Difference.

There's no system in place for us ffs. It's get the ball into SAS feet and let's hope they bail us out.
It's like Spurs from last season. "Kick it to Bale, he'll score." Next season, Bale gets sold. What's happened to Spurs?

We HAD a system set up from last season. One that worked, too. It took 6 months to get the players to adapt to it. Instead to sticking by it, we dumped it, and we haven't exactly "improved". Can you please tell my why?

Arsenal, Chelsea, City, United, Spurs, Everton, Soton, Newcastle, and Swansea along with us definitely look like the top 10 teams in PL (on paper at least). Now the objective here is to beat all the other teams every game (home and away) and then just win the occasional match against these top bunch and we should be right on the money. Also every time we fail to beat the lower teams we MUST win an extra match against the better teams. That right there gives you enough points for CL. United have been doing this shit for 20+ years and I think Rodgers is finally building us to become that sort of machine.

McAgger wrote:Not really tbh. We can afford to lose most of the games against the top teams. As long as we are a flat track bully everything is fine. Winning the matches against the bottom 10 alone gives you 60 points. We just have to plan accordingly. Play all these winnable matches like cup finals. The fact that we lost Hull City, now means we definitely have to win one of the 3 away matches (Spurs, Chelsea, City).

We play at 60% intensity thinking the game is won before we even step on the pitch against the "lower" teams away from home.
Both Chelsea and City have home records better than we do. Spurs have been a mess, but there's no chance we're getting 3 points from there.

Losing games we "should" have won happened twice against Soton, and against Hull City this season alone. It's happened over the years A LOT. We drop too many points from "bottom" teams. We don't have that winning mentality.

You can't afford to lose ANY points at any part of the season. Not when there's 7 (Everton, United, Chelsea, Arsenal, City, Spurs, Liverpool) teams that are trying to get into the 4. 3 of those 7 teams already guaranteed in Chelsea, Arsenal and City.

The only match so far we've lost points in that we really needed to win was the Hull match. And like I said now it puts us in a position where we have to win one of the tougher matches.

Forget about the draws away at Swansea, Everton and Newcastle, they are better than average teams and draws are pretty good results away from home against them. Another real disappointing match was the loss to Soton, a draw would of sufficed at home, but we did beat United which canceled that game out.

We are right on track except that Hull match.

Red Alert wrote:Yes, but we're now average on the road at the same time and you just can't. You need balance. You need to play whoever, whenever. It's not just the midfield, it's EVERYBODY. That includes Rodgers and his stupid tactics when it comes to away games.  

We haven't even been a good team this season. Again, the top 3 players of the season stand out. SAS and Mignolet make up the top 3. Maybe Skrtel / Sakho to make it top 5. I know you hate Skrtel, but he's been our best defender this season. Anyway, the rest of the team has been average. Those main 3 have carried us, there's no other way to put it.

When they don't play, Liverpool is bad. No other player in the squad stands up and goes "I'll take the responsibility when player X is out of form". As of right now, the rest of the squad has "bottled" it. We honestly had a chance to get a distant lead from the people that had "slow" starts but we didn't. Instead, we experimented. Why? I don't know. If Suarez wasn't playing out of his skin right now, we'd be in the same "crisis" United and Spurs are in.

BR this season has been very frustrating. Both on AND off the pitch. Just wish he gets his crap together, and fixes the problems. I don't want another "failed" project, I'm sick of this mediocrity the team has just "accepted" in the last 5 years.

Coutinho for me has been exceptional. Gerrard has had his standout games.
And How can you say that last part. This is he first season in 5 years where we finally look like breaking into top 4 and you are just looking for every opportunity to slate the manager even though he's doing and saying the right things.

One remark- theoretically, I see your take on 60 points from lower table teams. But that is purely on paper. It can never happen realistically. You will always have upset results, schedule crowding (even if you do not count mid-week European games), form, injuries, suspensions,.............(you get the idea) hampering your results. Thar unpredictability is why EPL has become so exciting these last couple of years!

On that note, anyone else get a feeling that there is atleast one good match apart from your team's match every weekend?? The last three weekends, I have spent a major time plonked in front of the TV because there is some game or the other which I have to watch

I agree with pooi about the Arsenal game, BR literally gave Arsenal the 3 points before the match by naming that eleven to play against them. Even i could have done better there.

No-one going to give Arsenal credit for the 'Pool game, then?

Lex wrote:No-one going to give Arsenal credit for the 'Pool game, then?

It's ok Lex, we are better off as unrated dark horses.. Don't need everyone, including GL, shouting off the rooftops about our performances and jinxing it all to high heavens..

Red Alert wrote:

McAgger wrote:Your 'without Suarez' comment is nonsense. Why do you keep saying that? We are not without Suarez. He is part of the team. Without Rooney, United wouldn't have half of their points. Without Aguero, City wouldn't half of their points. Without Ramsey, etc, etc.

And it's a myth that we haven't played nearly as good as our potential bs. We played amazingly well against Fulham, one of the best performances in a long time. We also played comfortably well against Norwich, Crystal Pulis, Sunderland, West Brom. So what if Suarez and Sturridge were the integral part of us picking up points in those matches. We are build like that ffs. We are built so that we take maximum out of our two star forwards.

City have a system under Pellegrini, Aguero is just in some good form. They have goals from EVERYWHERE in the squad, it's not just him carrying them.
Rooney is carrying United yes, they're considered to be in a crisis, no? Why? No system at OT.  
Arsenal have both the depth AND quality to play around Ramsey. Ramsey is just playing his role IN a system. Difference.  

There's no system in place for us ffs. It's get the ball into SAS feet and let's hope they bail us out.
It's like Spurs from last season. "Kick it to Bale, he'll score." Next season, Bale gets sold. What's happened to Spurs?

We HAD a system set up from last season. One that worked, too. It took 6 months to get the players to adapt to it. Instead to sticking by it, we dumped it, and we haven't exactly "improved". Can you please tell my why?

Just my two cents on the "without Suarez" comment.. I don't think its fair to say you are a one man team. You obviously have a player that stands out from the rest.. But your results prior to Suarez return from his ban really were not that bad and were certainly good enough to challenge top four.

Liverpool 0-1 Southampton
Swansea 2-2 Liverpool
Liverpool 1-0 Man Utd
Aston Villa 0-1 Liverpool
Liverpool 1-0 Stoke

With the exception of Southampton (which still is not really a MUST win game by McAggers approach).. Solid start.. I do understand you are a significantly stronger side with Suarez, capable of scoring a lot more goals.. I think your being pretty pessimistic, I think most of the country were quietly assured that you  had the potential to challenge for top four this year (also being aware Suarez was still to return) a few games in..

EDIT:
In regards to whats signs there are of improvement from last season for you.. you only need to compare it to your first 5 games of last season;

West Brom 3 – 0 Liverpool
Liverpool 2 – 2 Manchester City
Liverpool 0 – 2 Arsenal
Sunderland 1 – 1 Liverpool
Liverpool 1 – 2 Manchester United

In fact your first half of last season was actually pretty poor, your second half was better but not enough to balance your poor first half where you only managed 22 points.. after 19 games.. You are currently on 27 points from 14...

It is true that Liverpool's selection in that game didn't help their cause, though. They went into it relying on Lucas, Gerrard and Henderson against five of our midfielders, four of which who frequently rotated positions, plus their two wing backs on the night were poor.

This current discussion between Liverpool fans reminds me of the sort of discussions the Arsenal fans have had in the past few years, where regardless of what's going right, there's always a whole tonne of things going wrong according to certain fans. From the outside looking in, Liverpool are having a good season and are closer to finishing in the top four now than they were in the last couple of seasons and are in better shape than United and Spurs right now.

Anyway, this weekend's games:

Saturday
Man Utd vs Newcastle
Palace vs Cardiff
Liverpool vs West Ham
Southampton vs City
Stoke vs Chelsea
West Brom vs Norwich
Sunderland vs Spurs

Sunday
Fulham vs Villa
Arsenal vs Everton

Monday
Swansea vs Hull

Can't see any shocks this weekend.

If martinez plays open game like he played against ManU, i am expecting arsenal to get 3 points. He has beaten you with Wigan side but anyways it will be good to increase the gap between neverton and us

Soton, Sunderaland, Everton and Newcastle are all capable of pulling off 'shock' results