Re: OFFICIAL: FIFA Ballon d'or 2013 - Voting extended

by Robben #10 Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:19 pm

Go on Gil, elaborate on Ribéry's "mythical team play". Try your hardest.

by Winter is Coming Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:46 pm

Giggity5313 wrote:The team doesn't play around ronaldo
Messi has the whole team feeding him

I think you need to think before you speak, you think cr has been of similar quality as messi before two months, which I agree with. These past two months ronaldo has wiped the floor with messi. So therefore cr should win it according to you

Ohh, but why would the top scorer matter if its the ballon dor 2013? Two thousand thirteen. Not 2012. Ronaldo has scored much more then messi this year if your gonna argue about goals.

Please, CR averages 5 shots a game, compared to Messi 3 (the last time I checked). Surely those balls come from somewhere before CR takes a shot no? At the end both teams cater to their stars.

by Dnmac4 Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:52 pm

Robben #10 wrote:
Dnmac4 wrote:I've said this in other threads and I will post it again here. It is still shocking to me that people think Ribery was the best player in the world last year.

To come to that opinion you have to just completely ignore some pretty glaring facts about Frank Ribery.

1) He scored 1 freaking goal in last years Champions League. That's right, 1 goal. Yes, you read that correctly 1 goal.

2) Since he only had 1 goal he must have had a ton of assists in last years CL. Nope, 2 freaking assists. Yes, 2 assists.

3) He is not the best player on his own team let alone the world. Lahm and Neuer are easily better players and I would even add a couple other players Bayern have on there team that are better and no, Robben isn't one of them.

4)His form for France has been good. Not exceptional but good. IT's very obvious to me he doesn't really have the ability that Messi, Ronaldo, Ibra and others do to lead there national teams and put them on there back when need be. In fact I would say Portugal to an extent underachieved and Argentina has at times as well but France since they lost Zidane (the same class of player Messi and Ronaldo are) have at most times been a total disaster, especially when you consider the talent at there disposal.

Now can any of the Ribery supporters really sit here and tell me if Ronaldo or Messi scored 1 goal and 2 assists in the CL they wouldn't be crucified? Hell I've heard people say Messi and Ronaldo didn't play well in certain CL games when they have scored 2 goals in that 1 game let alone the whole tournament.

If either Messi and Ronaldo had Ribery statistics from last year people would not in a million years consider them for the Balon D'or they would be posting things like "has Messi lost it" or What's wrong with Ronaldo, should Madrid sell him".

It's like people judge Ribery on a different level than Messi and Ronaldo. They know he's not even close to as good as those 2 so they say well Ribery had a good year for Ribery so he should get the best player in the world award because his team is really good.

I mean I may be alone on this point but do people really think last years Bayern team couldn't win the CL with out Ribery? I think they could have and pretty easily too.

If you watch Bayern they are quite used to playing w/o ribery in the side and there really isn't a huge difference, the same can be said about France.

Can you say that about Barca or Madrid? no, they are a shell of themselves w/o Messi and Ronaldo.

It's like people think Ribery is a Defensive midfielder. He plays the same position basically as Ronaldo and very close to Messi yet his stats are a shell of what Ronaldo and MEssi put up.

To end this, if you judge Ribery under the same criteria as Messi and Ronaldo it's 100% impossible to think he deserves an individual award over those 2. It's not even close.
What a stupid post. Quit with your posturing and acting like you have actually watched us play this year.

So let me guess, you are just going to try and insult people and use the tired excuse of well I can't actually answer what you're saying so I will say "you don't watch us play". That's like the great EPL excuse every time they lose to a La Liga team of, "So what, we weren't even trying that game."

I mean do you really have an excuse for why Frank Ribery deserves the Balon D'or for scoring 1 goal in the champions league which in a non world cup year is the most important tournament of the year. Do you really think Messi and Ronaldo could get away with that?

If the situations were reversed people like you would be the first ones on here telling us how Messi and Ronaldo flopped in the CL only scoring one goal yet it's OK for Ribery because what? I'm still waiting for that answer???????????????????????

by Donuts Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:57 pm

Being the best means you have to score 60+ goals a season?
because Ronaldo is living proof that all his goals were practically useless.

by Dnmac4 Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:16 pm

Donuts wrote:Being the best means you have to score 60+ goals a season?
because Ronaldo is living proof that all his goals were practically useless.

It's an individual award and with Messi and Ronaldo putting up numbers you may not see again in a very long time, goal tally's are one of the most important statistics to win this award.

If the climate of football were like it were when people like Henry and Forlan were winning the golden boot with 25-30 goals than you could make a case for a total footballer like a Xavi or Pirlo to win the award but the records like scoring in 19 straight LA Liga games or Messi scoring 90 goals in a calendar year or what Ronaldo has been able to accomplish like his higher than a goal per game ratio at Madrid are just too staggering to ignore.

While Messi and Ronaldo are on these absolutely astonishing scoring streaks and both are top 10 in assists too I might add then no, there is no room for anyone else to win the award.

IF you think about the past footballers who were never able to achieve what these two are doing it's mind boggling. It just simply cannot be ignored. And until these two slow down there really is no justification for anyone else to win this award.

These are things we will probably never see again in our life time and people have just gotten used to it, and it's pretty mind numbing that people can vote for a guy like Ribery and just push aside what Ronaldo and Messi are doing.

They have made the impossible look average.

by Robben #10 Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:26 pm

Dnmac4 wrote:So let me guess, you are just going to try and insult people and use the tired excuse of well I can't actually answer what you're saying so I will say "you don't watch us play". That's like the great EPL excuse every time they lose to a La Liga team of, "So what, we weren't even trying that game."

I mean do you really have an excuse for why Frank Ribery deserves the Balon D'or for scoring 1 goal in the champions league which in a non world cup year is the most important tournament of the year. Do you really think Messi and Ronaldo could get away with that?

If the situations were reversed people like you would be the first ones on here telling us how Messi and Ronaldo flopped in the CL only scoring one goal yet it's OK for Ribery because what? I'm still waiting for that answer???????????????????????

Think about it: you're using a superficial argument that warps logic in favour of Ronaldo and Messi, by emphasising their strengths whilst completely disregarding Ribéry's. You then use this superficial argument based on agenda-driven opinion to denigrate and disparage Ribéry, his influence, and his contribution to Bayern.

If the situations were reversed in this hypothetical situation, it would be a suitable criticism for Ronaldo, possibly Messi as well. What does Ronaldo contribute to Real Madrid other than his superhuman end product? Not much, if you were to be brutally honest.

That's why if Ronaldo was to score one goal, he would be deemed as a flop, whereas if Ribéry scores 1 goal he is not deemed as a flop.

I could easily refute each and every single one of your points, but I don't need to waste time on someone who has already taken such a staunch opinion on this debate.

by FennecFox7 Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:30 pm

Winter is Coming wrote:
Giggity5313 wrote:The team doesn't play around ronaldo
Messi has the whole team feeding him

I think you need to think before you speak, you think cr has been of similar quality as messi before two months, which I agree with. These past two months ronaldo has wiped the floor with messi. So therefore cr should win it according to you

Ohh, but why would the top scorer matter if its the ballon dor 2013? Two thousand thirteen. Not 2012. Ronaldo has scored much more then messi this year if your gonna argue about goals.
Please, CR averages 5 shots a game, compared to Messi 3 (the last time I checked). Surely those balls come from somewhere before CR takes a shot no? At the end both teams cater to their stars.

Ronaldo takes long range shots away from goal to create a corner or a chance. Barcelona rarely shoot outside the box

by FennecFox7 Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:35 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Ronaldo: "If you train right then you decrease the risk of injury"

CR joining Ribery for the propaganda

He's right. I actually think messi is an excellent athlete, very explosive, its just that cr is a freak of nature when it comes to fitness. Injuries are going to happen sooner or later.

by harhar11 Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:28 pm

ronalessi wrote:Keep Calm BBC

Sweden Int + WCQ fixtures, 2013

Ibra 9 goals (3 assists)
hysen 4
Olsson 2
kacanik 2
svensson 2
elmander 1
elm 1
qaison 1
fej 1
majs 1
jansson 1

___________________________

Portugal Int + WCQ fixtures, 2013

Ronaldo 10 goals
postiga 4 <- portugal striker
alves 3
coentaro 1
almeida 1
costa 1
varela 1
nani 1
Meireles 1

How accurate are the swedish stats, cause I know that Portugals are inaccurate. C.Ronaldo scored 4 goals in the qualifiers and then 4 in the playoffs, a total of 8 goals, while Postiga scored 6 goals..

by ronalessi Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:34 pm

harhar11 wrote:
ronalessi wrote:Keep Calm BBC

Sweden Int + WCQ fixtures, 2013

Ibra 9 goals (3 assists)
hysen 4
Olsson 2
kacanik 2
svensson 2
elmander 1
elm 1
qaison 1
fej 1
majs 1
jansson 1

___________________________

Portugal Int + WCQ fixtures, 2013

Ronaldo 10 goals
postiga 4 <- portugal striker
alves 3
coentaro 1
almeida 1
costa 1
varela 1
nani 1
Meireles 1
How accurate are the swedish stats, cause I know that Portugals are inaccurate. C.Ronaldo scored 4 goals in the qualifiers and then 4 in the playoffs, while Postiga scored 6 goals..

Those stats are for 2013 Friendlies, Qualifiers + Playoffs

Postiga has 3 goals in the 2013 qualifiers/playoffs + 1 goal in 4 friendly apps

Ronaldo has 7 goals in 2013 qualifiers/playoffs + 3 goals in 2013 friendlies (out of 3 friendly apps)

If we're talking just 2013 qualifiers/playoffs (and excluding friendlies), then:
Ibra has 6 goals, 3 assists in 8 apps
CR7 has 7 goals, 1 assist in 6 apps

by harhar11 Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:53 am

Oh ok, I was just talking about the qualifiers since the first game.

Oh and I was just showing an example of Ibra carrying the swedish NT and it had nothing to do with the topic, as I don't think that Ibra deserves it more than C.ronaldo. I know, pretty irrelevent information for this thread from my part..

by ronalessi Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:54 am

In my opinion, I hope FIFA does not renew their contract with Amaury Group (owner of France Football) for the combined FIFA Ballon d'Or. The contract ends sometime after WC14.

by Dnmac4 Sat Nov 23, 2013 1:45 pm

Robben #10 wrote:
Dnmac4 wrote:So let me guess, you are just going to try and insult people and use the tired excuse of well I can't actually answer what you're saying so I will say "you don't watch us play". That's like the great EPL excuse every time they lose to a La Liga team of, "So what, we weren't even trying that game."

I mean do you really have an excuse for why Frank Ribery deserves the Balon D'or for scoring 1 goal in the champions league which in a non world cup year is the most important tournament of the year. Do you really think Messi and Ronaldo could get away with that?

If the situations were reversed people like you would be the first ones on here telling us how Messi and Ronaldo flopped in the CL only scoring one goal yet it's OK for Ribery because what? I'm still waiting for that answer???????????????????????
Think about it: you're using a superficial argument that warps logic in favour of Ronaldo and Messi, by emphasising their strengths whilst completely disregarding Ribéry's. You then use this superficial argument based on agenda-driven opinion to denigrate and disparage Ribéry, his influence, and his contribution to Bayern.

If the situations were reversed in this hypothetical situation, it would be a suitable criticism for Ronaldo, possibly Messi as well. What does Ronaldo contribute to Real Madrid other than his superhuman end product? Not much, if you were to be brutally honest.

That's why if Ronaldo was to score one goal, he would be deemed as a flop, whereas if Ribéry scores 1 goal he is not deemed as a flop.

I could easily refute each and every single one of your points, but I don't need to waste time on someone who has already taken such a staunch opinion on this debate.

I'm so tired of this insane argument that all Ronaldo and Messi contribute to there team is goals. I mean that couldn't be further from the truth.

It's all Ribery fan boys have to point to because his statistics are well poor if he were compared to Ronaldo and Messi.

Both players are routinely among the leaders in assists year in and year out, I mean Ronaldo had 17 freaking assists this year and Messi had 23. Both Barca and Madrid run there offense through these players and both of them contribute to a ton of goals even if there not on the assisting or scoring numbers.

This carries even more weight if you watch Messi while with Argentina as he drops basically to midfield and runs the entire offense through him. Hell last World Cup Messi really didn't score and it was obvious to anyone who knows anything about football he was one of the best players in the tournament.

I'm also so tired of having to pretend that Ribery is the most complete player ever and he's not an attacking player but a mix of zidane, Pirlo, Zanetti and Henry or something like that. The guy is an out and out attacking player. If you listen to Ribery fans they would have you believe that the man is a superhuman and that Bayern and France couldn't even move the ball up the field or defend a pass without him.

I have never seen a player so overrated in my life (maybe Jack Wilshere). People have to pretend that Ribery is the this incredibly complete player because his numbers just don't stack up. France and Bayern do not depend on Ribery anywhere near as much as Barca and Madrid or Portugal and Argentina do, not even close.

Also, I don't really know when it has become acceptable to knock forwards for being historically efficient in front of goal. Suddenly that trumps everything else you do on the field. Yes most of what Ronaldo does for his team is on the offense end, well duh the guy is a forward for gods sake.

by Robben #10 Sat Nov 23, 2013 2:05 pm

Can you read, or are you just intentionally mis-interpreting my post just so you can have something to argue with?

by Robben #10 Sat Nov 23, 2013 2:54 pm

Is it just a coincidence that in the knock-out stages of the Champions League, Ribéry was always at the top or near the top of the statistic for most touches, yet Ronaldo is always very low on that list, or is it just a by-product of their playing styles?

Ribéry's touches match-by-match
Arsenal (A) - 48 (subbed 63', 9th among Bayern players, #1 attacker had 57 touches)
Juventus (H) - 81 (subbed 80', 3rd among Bayern players, 1st among Bayern attackers, #2 attacker had 57 touches)
Juventus (A) - 90 (subbed 89', 1st among all players, #2 attacker had 54 touches)
Barcelona (H) - 62 (subbed 89', 1st among all players, #2 attacker had 53 touches)
Barcelona (A) - 85 (1st among all players, #2 attacker had 57 touches)
Dortmund - 79 (subbed 89', 3rd among all players, 1st among Bayern attackers, #2 attacker had 59 touches)

Ronaldo's touches match-by-match
Man Utd (H) - 56 (8th among RM players, 3rd among RM attackers, #1 attacker had 104 touches)
Man Utd (A) - 66 (7th among RM players, 2nd among RM attackers, #1 attacker had 74 touches)
Galatasaray (H) - 51 (7th among RM players, 3rd among RM attackers, #1 attacker had 66 touches)
Galatasaray (A) - 45 (6th among RM players, 3rd among RM attackers, #1 attacker had 48 touches)
Dortmund (A) - 60 (7th among RM players, 1st among RM attackers, #2 attacker had 56 touches)
Dortmund (H) - 65 (7th among RM players, 3rd among RM attackers, #1 attacker had 101 touches)

---

Why is it not surprising that Ribéry is always at the top of his team's touches statistic, only ever being behind the fullbacks and Schweinsteiger, and always being the attacker with the most touches on his team, yet Ronaldo is always very low in touches?

Bayern's attack flows through Ribéry, Real Madrid's attack plays to Ronaldo.
That's the difference.

It just has to be a coincidence that when Ronaldo had the most touches out of any other attacker on his team, Dortmund destroyed Real Madrid by a score of 4:1.

by El Gunner Sat Nov 23, 2013 2:58 pm

So do you guys still think Messi is going to win it. I'm too lazy to read through the pages.

Between Ribery and Ronaldo now.

by Dnmac4 Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:02 pm

Robben #10 wrote:Is it just a coincidence that in the knock-out stages of the Champions League, Ribéry was always at the top or near the top of the statistic for most touches, yet Ronaldo is always very low on that list, or is it just a by-product of their playing styles?

Ribéry's touches match-by-match
Arsenal (A) - 48 (subbed 63', 9th among Bayern players, #1 attacker had 57 touches)
Juventus (H) - 81 (subbed 80', 3rd among Bayern players, 1st among Bayern attackers, #2 attacker had 57 touches)
Juventus (A) - 90 (subbed 89', 1st among all players, #2 attacker had 54 touches)
Barcelona (H) - 62 (subbed 89', 1st among all players, #2 attacker had 53 touches)
Barcelona (A) - 85 (1st among all players, #2 attacker had 57 touches)
Dortmund - 79 (subbed 89', 3rd among all players, 1st among Bayern attackers, #2 attacker had 59 touches)

Ronaldo's touches match-by-match
Man Utd (H) - 56 (8th among RM players, 3rd among RM attackers, #1 attacker had 104 touches)
Man Utd (A) - 66 (7th among RM players, 2nd among RM attackers, #1 attacker had 74 touches)
Galatasaray (H) - 51 (7th among RM players, 3rd among RM attackers, #1 attacker had 66 touches)
Galatasaray (A) - 45 (6th among RM players, 3rd among RM attackers, #1 attacker had 48 touches)
Dortmund (A) - 60 (7th among RM players, 1st among RM attackers, #2 attacker had 56 touches)
Dortmund (H) - 65 (7th among RM players, 3rd among RM attackers, #1 attacker had 101 touches)

---

Why is it not surprising that Ribéry is always at the top of his team's touches statistic, only ever being behind the fullbacks and Schweinsteiger, and always being the attacker with the most touches on his team, yet Ronaldo is always very low in touches?

Bayern's attack flows through Ribéry, Real Madrid's attack plays to Ronaldo.
That's the difference.

It just has to be a coincidence that when Ronaldo had the most touches out of any other attacker on his team, Dortmund destroyed Real Madrid by a score of 4:1.

What is your point? That Ribery as an attacking player has more touches on the ball and produces way less? Are you trying to prove what everyone else knows that Ronaldo and Messi are two of the most efficient attacking players ever?

Also, it's funny how you are cherry picking stats. I mean I know it's basically impossible to use stats or anything else for that matter to tell us Ribery is better then Ronaldo or Messi so I can see why you're cherry picking.

Please do tell us the reason you only compare Ronaldo to Ribery and leave Messi out of the conversation? I mean you are saying Ribery was better than Ronaldo and Messi, LOL.

I'm not going to look up the numbers but I know off the top of my head Messi generally averages over the last 2-3 years about 80-90 touches per game.

So does that mean that since Messi and Ribery are basically about equal in touches and Messi destroys Ribery in production that Ribery has no business being considered for the award? Because tell me if I'm wrong that was the reason you put together the statistics you did was to prove Ribery has more of the ball than Ronaldo and trying to disparage Ronaldo only being a goal scorer, correct?

Since you wanna pull out stats, I can use statistics too. Here's a couple stats to prove what most people should already know, that Bayern winning the CL was a TEAM EFFORT and that Ribery was not one of the best players in the tournament nor did he guide them to the trophy and that he was one out of 5-6 different players on Bayern who led them to the CL trophy.

1) 8 players on Bayern had a better goal to minutes ratio to Ribery.
2) Out of the players who scored for Bayern in the CL no one had a worse minutes to goals ratio.
3) Ribery had 1 goal in 853 minutes.
4) Out of the 194 players who scored in the Champions league Ribery was 187/194 in terms of minutes to goals ratio. Only 7 other players had a worse ratio in the entire tournament.

1) 0 players on Madrid or Barca had a better goals to minutes ratio to Ronaldo or Messi.
2) Ronaldo led the whole tournament in goals and goals per minute ratio and Messi was 3rd. Messi= 3/194, Ronaldo 1/194, Ribery 187/194.
3) Ronaldo had 12 goals in 1080 minutes, Messi had 8 goals in 826 minutes.
4) If you add goals and assists Ribery is again wallowing between the middle and the bottom somewhere while Messi and Ronaldo are in the top 10.

Stop Cherry picking. If you're going to use a stat to put down Ronaldo maybe you should check and see if it pertains to Messi as well, since you are trying to use stats to tell us what a great CL Ribery had.

by farfan Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:19 pm

barça fans thinking messi should wn it .

bayern and french fans thinking ribery should win it .

portuguese fans and madrid fas thinking ronaldo should win it .

nothing to see here..

by farfan Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:24 pm

Gil wrote:Can't believe people are comparing the impact of a player in Basketball to Football. It's not even close.

.

yep . fewer players, higher pace and smaller field .

i just watched lebron the other day score a slam dunk then sprint back to defense and prevent a player from scoring by snatching the ball at the last moment .

good luck doing the same in football .

by Zealous Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:25 pm

Dnmac quality post too bad it's being wasted on hipsters with an agenda.

by farfan Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:27 pm

Zealous wrote:Dnmac quality post too bad it's being wasted on hipsters with an agenda.

that guy is easily one of the most detestable posters i've seen here. arrogant, condescending, and just reeks of holier than thou attitude .

edit : Robben #10 , not dnmac .

by Robben #10 Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:44 pm

I was clearly augmenting my argument that the offense runs through him when he plays. I'm not sure why you paint it out to be completely relevant. It's not cherry-picking stats at all, it's backing up my point with a relevant statistic.

If you read through my previous posts, you would see that I am relating this argument to Ronaldo. Hence me directing the entire "1 goal" argument to Ronaldo, and not Messi.

I'm not at all saying that Ribéry was better than Ronaldo and Messi. You're completely distorting my argument, for some asinine reason. From my first post in this thread, I have maintained that Ribéry is not a better player than Ronaldo or Messi. I am arguing the case that Ribéry deserves to win the award.

It's simply logical that Messi would have touches in that high amount considering how Barcelona's attack flows through him in the final third, not to mention how they have dominated the possession in their matches regularly over the past 5 years or so.

Ronaldo is a glorified striker.

Again, the only statistic that you use is goals. I'm not sure you understand the point that I am trying to convey. Ribéry is not only about end product, which is something you completely overlook.

Again, I am not arguing based on statistics. I never used statistics to show that Ribéry had a great Champions League, so again, do not distort my arguments to satiate your mis-guided agenda. I only referred to Ribéry's touches because for some reason, several people in this thread seem to believe that Ribéry was poor during the knock-out stages of the Champions League.

I'm also not sure you know what cherry-picking means, and if you do, you're just a hypocrite. Your entire argument has been based on goals and assists, therefore cherry-picking two stats.

I could do what Harmonica does and post the Whoscored ratings of Ribéry and Ronaldo and say that Ribéry is better than Ronaldo based on over 200 statistics, but that's just stupid and superficial.

by Robben #10 Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:52 pm

Zealous wrote:hipsters with an agenda.

I have no agenda at all, and to be frank I don't even think you know what "agenda" means in this context.

I have maintained from my first post in this thread that you cannot show Ribéry's influence on the team based on goals and assists, yet for some reason Dnmac4 is still doing the same thing.

I have never stated at one point that Ribéry should win the award, rather he deserves to be in the discussion.

The only problem that I have is some people are very keen on denigrating the quality Ribéry shows on a regular basis because he is not the end-station for the vast majority of our attacks like Ronaldo and Messi are for their respective teams.

If I was a "hipster", I would go ahead and say that Ribéry should win the award. But I don't. From my first post in this thread, I have maintained the same opinion of the award, as you can see.

Robben #10 wrote:I don’t even care if Ribéry wins the Ballon D’Or or not, he’s already won European Footballer of the Year which is an equal accomplishment. I’d rather see mostly reputed journalists in Europe voting for Ribéry instead of the *bleep* captain of Morocco and Lebanon or the media from Liberia. Even if Ribéry is a *bleep*, I’d be glad to see that he made it on the top 3, or even top 2.

by urbaNRoots Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:05 pm

Robben10 pretty much owned everyone in the thread Molenation

by Robben #10 Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:25 pm

The match showed how critical a playmaker is to our attack. Robben was obviously trying (and failing) at playing that role through the first 20 minutes, then he swapped with Mandzukic and then Mueller about half-way through the first half.

We showed little penetration at all. The best chance was a half-chance from Robben on the left wing, the only significant bit of play from the left wing.

Robben could do do little on the left wing so he drifted inwards, and that meant Alaba had to maintain the width on the left wing.

Does it surprise any of you that almost all of Dortmund's attacks went through their right side, where Alaba was almost always dragged out of position?

It doesn't surprise me, because Ribéry makes Alaba better than he seems.

Our play improved tenfold when Goetze and then Thiago were introduced into the game, because they could keep our attacks fluid in the final third rather than just attacking in spurts.

Our first goal came from a beautiful individual effort from Goetze, and Robben's second goal was from a beautiful pass from Thiago.

Our best players were Lahm, Neuer, and Goetze. Neuer made crucial saves again, like he always does against Dortmund.

Robben, like Mueller, has shown yet again that he cannot be given the role of being the playmaker. It's simply not in his repertoire.

If anything, Goetze has showed that he can seamlessly come into a game and make it his own. He is a big-game player, and that is his best attribute.

We could not break through their make-shift defense in the first half. To be honest, the game shouldn't have been a contest. There were times when it looked like we were playing Lahm as a libero (if you were watching on Sky Germany, would would have seen it), and as if it was a 5-1-4, when Martinez for some reason was always pushing up.

We scored the last 2 when they pushed forward and tried to score, with Neuer playing very well, with some marvelous stops. Boateng made an amazing stop on Reus in the first half as well, that cannot be ignored either. It was an expected result, but not through the means I was expecting it.

I'd expect some people to think that we play this way every match, when in reality, we don't.

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