Messi doesn't need World Cup

Guys please refrain from making personal comments about other users and debate the ideas, not the people.

Ganso wrote:the goat, not one of the goats.Platini and  Di Stefano are considered a level below the usual 2 goat nominees,Maradona and Pele.

Maybe in SA. In Europe there are 4 goat nominees: Pele, Di Stefano, Cruijff & Maradona.

To reiterate my opinion Messi doesn't need a WC. He has been dominant enough at club level that no one even reaches him anymore. Cristiano is closer to Ribery than to Messi and has for a few years now. Should Messi remain injury free he will end his career as a man who beat nearly every record at club level, won every club level trophy he competed for and the man with the most Balon D'Ors. That's a GOAT legacy right there.

The WC might be the most prestigious trophy but it's not the hardest in footballing terms, the Champions is.

Some would think cr is some pub player the way some of you hype messi on here

Messi having 4 balon d'or is such a joke though

Messi is the greatest player right now and nobody can come close at the moment.  The problem is Messi is surrounded by such great talent at Barcelona that I believe that is why some people, such as myself, want to see him win a world cup.  We all know he will retire at Barcelona so seeing him carry a scrub squad to greatness will never happen.  Honestly all that is left for him to prove is that he can win something great, like the world cup, without Barcelona and without all those players he grew up playing with.  If he can prove that, for me it will secure his greatness.  

And yes the world cup does matter, its every four years, the champions league is every year (and I love me the CL), it is the time frame that makes it so prestigious, the fact that you don't play with these people all year long and the fact that in that short amount of time if you and your countrymen click you can make magic happen.

And the balon d'or is pretty much like winning prom king in high school.  When Iniesta didn't win it last time it confirmed itself as a popularity contest to me.

Ganso wrote:I was going to get in the debate again, but i wont, its impossible to debate considering some people just ignore the fact that lifting a WC is the highest place a football player can be at, (its not even debatable) and fans just ignore it for Messi.Messi is already one of the top 3 players of all time, but he isnt the goat.Pele was a ridiculous footballer and won it,Maradona was a ridiculous footballer and won it, Messi is a ridiculous footballer but still hasnt and therefore he is behind them.

inb4 "by that logic Gerd Muller is better than Messi"

sure Nt football does not have the quality it used to have, but the title is the only thing that people will remember of

Based on your logic there is never going to be a goat from say Albania, because they are so small country that they can never have a team that does something worthy, even though they theoretically can have the best player that ever played the game? I mean how many times in player's career a WC happens?

chad4401 wrote:Some would think cr is some pub player the way some of you hype messi on here

We weren't even talking about ronaldo as well. Its incredible how many people on GL downplay certain players.. and I'm not just talking about cr

the hatred some people have sad that some people try to hide it too

I think messi needs to get to at least the semis or make a good impact such as top scorer.. etc. But winning it; is it that big of a deal? cryuff didn't win a wc. still the greatest player for me

FalcaoPunch wrote:Messi having 4 balon d'or is such a joke though

Yes one of the best players of all time getting the balon d'or is a joke

Albiceleste wrote:

FalcaoPunch wrote:Messi having 4 balon d'or is such a joke though

Yes one of the best players of all time getting a balon d'or is a joke, you would have to really dislike Messi to say he didnt deserve each and every one of them. Doesn't matter if you think someone else deserved it more (lol), to say that he didn't even deserve to get it is just pure hatred

Everyone knows Sneijder got screwed out of one of them. It seems winning things with a team doesn't matter anymore as long as you are the best individual.

pretty sure its an individual award no?

and just because its a common rhetoric among those who want to see Messi fail, doesn't mean that it's true

Albiceleste wrote:pretty sure its an individual award no?

Which is why it is flawed as an award. Football is a team game. The players who win with their team should get the award. Isn't it unfair that every other player in the world but Messi stands no chance of winning such an award even if their club wins everything and that player is instrumental to the club's success? Snejder won every single trophy he could that year (except the WC, where he was a finalist) and he still wasn't even top 3 in the Ballon D'Or. All Messi had to do was be brilliant in a team that was unsuccessful.

These Messi fanboys

Brazilian league was better back then was better than La Liga today, it was no two horse race. Look at the list of Intercontinental Cup winners.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intercontinental_Cup_%28football%29_winners

Look at the South American dominance, should give you an idea. I think all of 70s Brazil team, which is regarded as the greatest NT side of all time played in Brazilian league, the so called inferior to two horse race Liga today Disregarding Pele's club achievements like that SMH. Brazilian league was competitive as hell back then.

Like I said before, Messi does not even need to win the World Cup, just go to the final like Cruyff did or win the Golden Ball instead of scoring 0 goals.

Think about it, would Pele, Maradona and Cruyff be considered the GOATs if they did not turn up in the World Cup?

Forza wrote:

Albiceleste wrote:pretty sure its an individual award no?

Which is why it is flawed as an award. Football is a team game. The players who win with their team should get the award. Isn't it unfair that every other player in the world but Messi stands no chance of winning such an award even if their club wins everything and that player is instrumental to the club's success? Snejder won every single trophy he could that year (except the WC, where he was a finalist) and he still wasn't even top 3 in the Ballon D'Or. All Messi had to do was be brilliant in a team that was unsuccessful.

Being instrumental isn't enough, you have to be the star of the team. Sneijder wasn't and other players were arguably just as important if not more so. There are many players that could win the award, but none are stepping up.

M99 wrote:These Messi fanboys

Like I said before, Messi does not even need to win the World Cup, just go to the final like Cruyff did or win the Golden Ball instead of scoring 0 goals.

Think about it, would Pele, Maradona and Cruyff be considered the GOATs if they did not turn up in the World Cup?

"Messi fanboys" aren't the ones calling the CL a mini-me trophy, ironically enough it's madrid fans. and there is certainly no bias there either.

Messi doesn't need to prove anything at international level. He has the club credentials that make him the best. Realistically, Messi's performances in the world cup can't hurt him. it wouldn't even matter if he flopped, which would be impossible considering how good he is, unless you have ridiculous standards or are a hater.

Whatever happens in those 7 games, cannot erase what he has done at the club level.

Albiceleste wrote:

Forza wrote:

Albiceleste wrote:pretty sure its an individual award no?

Which is why it is flawed as an award. Football is a team game. The players who win with their team should get the award. Isn't it unfair that every other player in the world but Messi stands no chance of winning such an award even if their club wins everything and that player is instrumental to the club's success? Snejder won every single trophy he could that year (except the WC, where he was a finalist) and he still wasn't even top 3 in the Ballon D'Or. All Messi had to do was be brilliant in a team that was unsuccessful.

Being instrumental isn't enough, you have to be the star of the team. Sneijder wasn't and other players were arguably just as important if not more so. There are many players that could win the award, but none are stepping up.

Quite frankly, that's crap.

Sneijder was the most important star player for both the Netherlands NT and Inter, no question. Messi performed in a team that won nothing and more than that, he was most definitely nowhere near his best at the WC.

Forza wrote:
Quite frankly, that's crap.

Sneijder was the most important star player for both the Netherlands NT and Inter, no question. Messi performed in a team that won nothing and more than that, he was most definitely nowhere near his best at the WC.

To say Sneijder was the standout player for Inter is an insult to all the other players that were just as vital.

Messi performed in a team that won La Liga and were robbed of the CL. He was nominated for the WC Golden Ball.

lol Xavi or Iniesta should've won it in 2010 if anything not Sneijder.

Only time which CR looked as good as Messi was last year. And that was only because Messi stopped playing and became lazy boss.

This is the only way someone can reach Messi's level. If Messi starts to play again like he did in 2008-2011 then nobody comes close to him. We used to see magic every game now we see it once in 4 months

Now people stopped praising Messi compared to previous years. Messi needs to come back and remind people who he was. Records affected Messi's play, now he thinks about scoring instead of making magics which people loved

Albiceleste wrote:

Forza wrote:
Quite frankly, that's crap.

Sneijder was the most important star player for both the Netherlands NT and Inter, no question. Messi performed in a team that won nothing and more than that, he was most definitely nowhere near his best at the WC.

To say Sneijder was the standout player for Inter is an insult to all the other players that were just as vital.

Messi performed in a team that won La Liga and were robbed of the CL. He was nominated for the WC Golden Ball.

So by that logic, to say Messi was the standout player for Barca would be an insult to all the other players that were just as vital, no? Fact is that it is a team game and there is always going to be more than one important player in a successful team.

Also, "robbed" of the CL? Barca lost. Lost is the word you are looking for. I hate Inter and I am being made to advocate on their behalf - see what your contorted arguments have done?!

If Sneijder won Ballon Dor then this award would lose its reputation. Who is Sneijder to be among goats list? Look at WPOTY winners
Rivaldo
Baggio
Zidane
R9
Figo
Ronaldinho
Kaka
Messi
CR

You think Sneijder deserves to be there? This an individual award and history shows that only individually goat players won it. Sneijder doesnt deserve to be there winning a team trophy. If Sneijder was individually goat player then he would have 90 million price tag. But instead he plays in Galatasaray

Badamdar wrote:If Sneijder won Ballon Dor then this award would lose its reputation. Who is Sneijder to be among goats list? Look at WPOTY winners
Rivaldo
Baggio
Zidane
R9
Figo
Ronaldinho
Kaka
Messi
CR

You think Sneijder deserves to be there? This an individual award and history shows that only individually goat players won it. Sneijder doesnt deserve to be there winning a team trophy. If Sneijder was individually goat player then he would have 90 million price tag. But instead he plays in Galatasaray

Conveniently leaving Michael Owen off that list.

And more importantly, leaving Cannavaro off that list because he is not a spectacular attacking player is very disappointing from you. No doubt he deserved to win. And more defenders should win it. Although that throws up the question of how do you compare a defender to a striker? Impossible IMO.

Also, if price tags are what is important to you... pfft

Forza wrote:

Albiceleste wrote:

Forza wrote:
Quite frankly, that's crap.

Sneijder was the most important star player for both the Netherlands NT and Inter, no question. Messi performed in a team that won nothing and more than that, he was most definitely nowhere near his best at the WC.

To say Sneijder was the standout player for Inter is an insult to all the other players that were just as vital.

Messi performed in a team that won La Liga and were robbed of the CL. He was nominated for the WC Golden Ball.

So by that logic, to say Messi was the standout player for Barca would be an insult to all the other players that were just as vital, no? Fact is that it is a team game and there is always going to be more than one important player in a successful team.

Also, "robbed" of the CL? Barca lost. Lost is the word you are looking for. I hate Inter and I am being made to advocate on their behalf - see what your contorted arguments have done?!

Messi is the best performer on his team by far and easily, that makes him the standout player. You can say that about players like CR, RVP and Suarez. You can't say that about Sneijder. That's the difference between important, and standout.

Albiceleste wrote:

Forza wrote:

Albiceleste wrote:To say Sneijder was the standout player for Inter is an insult to all the other players that were just as vital.

Messi performed in a team that won La Liga and were robbed of the CL. He was nominated for the WC Golden Ball.

So by that logic, to say Messi was the standout player for Barca would be an insult to all the other players that were just as vital, no? Fact is that it is a team game and there is always going to be more than one important player in a successful team.

Also, "robbed" of the CL? Barca lost. Lost is the word you are looking for. I hate Inter and I am being made to advocate on their behalf - see what your contorted arguments have done?!

Messi is the best performer on his team by far and easily, that makes him the standout player. You can say that about players like CR, RVP and Suarez. You can't say that about Sneijder. That's the difference between important, and standout.

So what you're saying is that if Sneijder was on a team where he was the only good player, then he would be a worthy winner? hahaha

Forza wrote:

Albiceleste wrote:

Forza wrote:So by that logic, to say Messi was the standout player for Barca would be an insult to all the other players that were just as vital, no? Fact is that it is a team game and there is always going to be more than one important player in a successful team.

Also, "robbed" of the CL? Barca lost. Lost is the word you are looking for. I hate Inter and I am being made to advocate on their behalf - see what your contorted arguments have done?!

Messi is the best performer on his team by far and easily, that makes him the standout player. You can say that about players like CR, RVP and Suarez. You can't say that about Sneijder. That's the difference between important, and standout.

So what you're saying is that if Sneijder was on a team where he was the only good player, then he would be a worthy winner? hahaha

Is Messi the only good player on his team? Is CR the only good player on his team? No, but they are by far and easily the best performers, which is why they contend for the award, not Sneijder.

Albiceleste wrote:

Forza wrote:

Albiceleste wrote:Messi is the best performer on his team by far and easily, that makes him the standout player. You can say that about players like CR, RVP and Suarez. You can't say that about Sneijder. That's the difference between important, and standout.

So what you're saying is that if Sneijder was on a team where he was the only good player, then he would be a worthy winner? hahaha

Is Messi the only good player on his team? Is CR the only good player on his team? No, but they are by far and easily the best performers, which is why they contend for the award, not Sneijder.

So what you're saying now is that to be the best in the world the primary criterion is to be the stand-out player of your team? I would've thought it would be to be the best at winning things...

Owen is a ballon dor winner not Fifa World Player of the Year. But now its Fifa Ballon Dor. And people still laugh at Owen and Cannavaro for winning that awards. Sneijder would be one of them.

Messi doesnt need a trophy to be best player. Thats why i call true individual goat. Team has nothing to do when he takes the ball dribbles 3-4 people and scores. This is his individual ability