OFFICIAL: Ozil is now an Arsenal player |

sportsczy wrote:Carlo doesn't accept midfielders that can't defend adequately.  It's really as simple as that.  Pastore had massive problems too... never really settled down with Carlo at PSG.  

why don't we have more Managers like this?, tired of seeing midfielders who can't even make a proper tackle but call themselves DM's ( Scott Parker)

vanDEEZ wrote:people keep bringing up that isco is better defensively.  i personally dont see it.  i dont see either of them making tackles and winning the ball back to be honest.

what i do see is that isco plays from just a tiny bit deeper.  im thinking this is where the illusion comes in.

defending for attackers is mostly a mental commitment, rather than a technical exercise. Just running back to help pressure the ball and to close passing lanes can be enough to force mistakes or to allow someone else to win the ball.

I actually think there's a huge difference and alot that goes into it. Isco has had to defend his entire professional career ; he's in much better shape ; because of who he's worked under he understands how to use space to defend - using the ball, the players and the space between them as reference points to dictate his own movement- ; and lastly he's the new kid and he's younger - ready and willing to earn his spot by whatever means necessary.

Ozil don't have the fitness, never had to do it, and never actually learned how to do it smartly. But as Nick said, it's mostly mental commitment and I've seen Mesut defend when called for on quite a few occasions. Though that will never be consistent, because the sheer amount of energy he will have to expend doing it the way he does.

Mr Nick09 wrote:

vanDEEZ wrote:people keep bringing up that isco is better defensively.  i personally dont see it.  i dont see either of them making tackles and winning the ball back to be honest.

what i do see is that isco plays from just a tiny bit deeper.  im thinking this is where the illusion comes in.

defending for attackers is mostly a mental commitment, rather than a technical exercise. Just running back to help pressure the ball and to close passing lanes can be enough to force mistakes or to allow someone else to win the ball.

i agree with this, but im not seeing the massive difference that is being described by posts in this thread.

how i see it, ozil is an AM who plays more like a forward. isco is an AM who plays like an AM.

But now he is being put into a situation where his manager is asking him to make that effort consistently. He is only 24, and i would assume he is still young enough to improve greatly. But right now he is going about it with the wrong mentality. If there was equal talent out there, i would have been ok to dump him.

It's better to tackle that issue right now anyway, because in CL there are no second chances. It's also easier to try to build a consistent way of playing rather than asking your players to do special performaces, in special moments...

What Nick said.

Both Di Maria and Benzema are outperforming him though... and Carlo is pretty adamant about playing the players that fit best and are playing best unless CR7 comes out and demands that Ozil play, which he won't.

At this point, there's no doubt in my mind that Ozil gets benched once Bale arrives and i assume that's why he's so agitated.

yh I have that hunch as well. Since the start of preseason Ozil is the only who is yet to adapt to Carlos way of playing and I am not surprised since he is more of a one position guy meaning he has mastered one position but would struggle in any other. its not like he had to cover for Arbeloa yesterday with dimaria doing that neither did he play on the right as again dimaria did that. Something tells me we have another Cacktrao on our hand where he wants to leave at the first sight of competition

look at DiMaria when everybody thought he was a goner he puts his head down works hard to earn Carlos trust and Carlo has praised him in alot of his pressconferences

Benz is another one who looks like a new player after the bale rumours. ozil is the only one who hasn't grasped the fact he might be relegated to the bench forever if he continues with his lazy performances. Ronaldo will come good because he always does.

Personally, i think his father has a lot do with it.  He puts these notions of entitlement into his son's head...  It's not like Ozil can't do other things.  He just doesn't feel like he should since his entourage tell him how great and wonderful he is.  

If i were him, i'd call a meeting with Carlo and Zidane and let them tell me what's up.  At that point, you either decide to fight it out or you capitulate.  It's up to him.

vanDEEZ wrote:people keep bringing up that isco is better defensively.  i personally dont see it.  i dont see either of them making tackles and winning the ball back to be honest.

what i do see is that isco plays from just a tiny bit deeper.  im thinking this is where the illusion comes in.

 Tackling and winning the ball is just a part of defending..its not everything. Iniesta also isnt that good at tackling and ball winning yet he offers miles better defensively than Ozil.

Getting back and offering a minimum resistance and not even tracking back properly is two different things, there is a massive difference,i just dont see how it is hard to understand.

Defending might be slightly more convenient if the team started pressing properly and playing a high line. Especially when there's no proper DM playing.

Ozil was never a good fit for Mehdrid to be honest, should have gone to Barca or stayed in Germany. I can't see him going to Yanited , Rooney, Carrick and Cleverley all have that midfield position on lock. Maybe Dortmund should make a cheeky loan bid

Özil was always the right player for how the fans want Madrid to play, not how they actually play. But I can't think of anyone better available. If Madrid start to play a bit more geared towards possession and active, instead of reactive, Özil will be at his best. Just look at him for Germany. No complaints there.

Ozil is even less of a fit for barcelona lol. Ozil is all speed, all venom, he seriously lacks in terms of positional play, which is the most important thing for barca. He is not a playmaker, cant dictate the tempo, nor can play deeper in the midfield, which is what is asked from barca midfielders. So no he did well not to go there.

VivaStPauli wrote:Özil was always the right player for how the fans want Madrid to play, not how they actually play. But I can't think of anyone better available. If Madrid start to play a bit more geared towards possession and active, instead of reactive, Özil will be at his best. Just look at him for Germany. No complaints there.

that's what we are trying to do, and he is actually struggling.

Ozil needs to show dedication to the cause or he just won't improve no matter what, sulking all the time is the wrong attitude needs to embrace the challenge

If he is not understanding the role then why not get special training like kaka, watch a bunch of videos, listen to your instructions etc...

As nick said he has the tools but he just wanna play the final passes that ain't gonna cut he need to be engaged in all midfield aspects from start to finish he will be a better player for it

Mr Nick09 wrote:

VivaStPauli wrote:Özil was always the right player for how the fans want Madrid to play, not how they actually play. But I can't think of anyone better available. If Madrid start to play a bit more geared towards possession and active, instead of reactive, Özil will be at his best. Just look at him for Germany. No complaints there.

that's what we are trying to do, and he is actually struggling.

#Mouknowsbest

Give Ozil to Wenger and in a couple months he'll be dictating tempo AND scoring consistently. Wasted 3 years of his career under a parochial manager.

Arsenal already have Cazorla who plays little to no defense by design... Giroud only defends on set pieces and early pressure. he's asked to stay up so that the CBs can't cheat + he is great at holding up the ball. That's 2 guys that are not actively involved in the defensive shape. You can't have 3.

Give Ozil sometime under Carlo, he is just getting accustomed all over again.

Once a flop, always a flop.
Not worthy of the great Madrid, go to a small club like Barcelona!

Well, according EC, AS, and Cope, Ozil insists on leaving. This is extremely disappointing behavior, i was expecting more from a player like him. But if he is choosing to run away, then he should fck off providing we can make up for him leaving.

If he did leave then:

--------------Benzema
---Ronaldo-----------------Bale
------------Isco---Modric
-----------Casemiro/Illarramendi

Mr Nick09 wrote:Well, according EC, AS, and Cope, Ozil insists on leaving. This is extremely disappointing behavior, i was expecting more from a player like him. But if he is choosing to run away, then he should fck off providing we can make up for him leaving.

Its extremely disappointing that he doesn't want to sit on the bench in a WC year because Perez has a new play toy?

He's not going to sit there and watch himself go down the pecking order just because Perez decides he wants to f*ck everything up for a new toy

Good on him, i hope he's not the last one and make clubs like this realize they can't hoover up all the talent for themselves and not even use them.

Ballack wrote:Once a flop, always a flop.
Not worthy of the great Madrid, go to a small club like Barcelona!

Ozil was NEVER a flop...dunno what ozil most of you have been watching but he is a beast..

i will gladly give Madrid cazorla plus 50 M for Ozil

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:

Mr Nick09 wrote:Well, according EC, AS, and Cope, Ozil insists on leaving. This is extremely disappointing behavior, i was expecting more from a player like him. But if he is choosing to run away, then he should fck off providing we can make up for him leaving.

Its extremely disappointing that he doesn't want to sit on the bench in a WC year because Perez has a new play toy?

He's not going to sit there and watch himself go down the pecking order just because Perez decides he wants to f*ck everything up for a new toy

Good on him, i hope he's not the last one and make clubs like this realize they can't hoover up all the talent for themselves and not even use them.

And he is going to sit on the bench according to who? he has played absolutely all games so far since carlo arrived, preseason and official games alike. When Carlo said he wanted CR to play CF, and gave him the most freedom in attack, he should have understood that he wasnt the one in danger. If it wasnt a world cup year would it have been different? and if anything, going into a different environment than what he is accustomed to, can have a worse effect on his form?

This is 1) Money driven 2) fear of competition. He is asking us to break our wage structure to give him a massive contract and he is afraid of competition. You cant say that he is leaving because Bale is arriving because there has been no indication that he would go to the bench, and bale hasnt even arrived yet ffs. What know it all pundits say on twitter doesnt matter. He is being asked to work more on the pitch, to defend more, to participate more, and he is doing fck all. That's terrible attitude i am sorry, not even the people that should actually feel upset like Di Maria or benzema have complained. fckin disagrace

If we had said yes to his demands of a bigger contract, he wouldnt be crying about bale dude