Mourinho has failed!

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Post by jibers Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:17 pm

I think we can pretty much say this now, unless an absolute miracle of a comeback, and that's near impossible given how in 3 games Dortmund have molested us, we can quite easily reach this conclusion. Copa win is gonna be nice but no player should be happy about it.

The whole term of Florentino perez, mourinho era in madrid has mostly left a very bad taste in my mouth. the supposed greatest coach in the world, failed yet again to justify why he was brought to madrid. I mean, his supporters were willing to forgive him for everything as long as he would deliver them a champions league. But where is it?

From the mediocre transfers all around which failed to give a meaningful impact to the team, to the way he quarelled with the locker, because its a two way street this one, he has been quite a bad experience.

His inability to built an actual project in 3 years in madrid is what most baffling to me. Now we can draw a direct comparison to the german teams and it jumps to the eye how much superior tactically they are to us. Ironic isnt, the so called master tactician shamed by such modes managers.

Mou has failed, at the expense of my club, which brings me great sadness because as much as i enjoy being right about having called him a fraud for so long, i feel like we havent progressed that much, and we still need an actually briiliant manager to lead us.

It's coming to an end, that's the positive thing, i wish someone would threaten Perez hegemony in madrid, because he is a rather poor leader as a whole. Now that he has yet again failed, many his opponents stand a better chance to beat him, because if he is going to subject us again to another tactically inept manager like Ancelotti for 3 years, i will personally go down to madrid to slap him.

/rant
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:27 pm

"Us"? You're a madridista now jibercus?

Anyways I can't see how anyone could argue he was not a failure.
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Post by jibers Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:31 pm

Nick09's post from his RM forum. Yes Mourinho project has been a monumental failure. 3 years and two trophies and 2 disgraces.
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Post by sportsczy Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:33 pm

Not a failure. 1 La Liga, 3 straight CL semis, 1 CDR and still some things to play for in 3 years is good considering what a mess we were before him. It's nothing special for Real Madrid historically... but it's good.

My big problem with him is that he's distracted the team this year on his own + our playing style is not easy on the eyes. Mou is just not a very classy person. Very good manager though if you're into underdog tactics and results.
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Post by jibers Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:38 pm

so 2 trophies after half a billion spent...

seems legit
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Post by sportsczy Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:46 pm

Ozil and Khedira were bought for less than 20 mil each. Coentrao and Modric for 30+ each and Di Maria for 40. That's it. That's the extent of the purchases under Mou worth noting. 150 mil over 3 years is very reasonable for an elite team.

There's enough things to blame Mou for... no need to make shat up.

And just how many trophies did Man U win during Arsenal's dominant years? No EPL titles for 2003 to 2007, 1 FA cup and no CLs. Arsenal was nowhere near as good as Barca has been over the past 5 years either.
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Post by Mr Nick09 Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:48 pm

this is my ultimate jinx for tuesday jibers Proud

that being said, if schuster can win laliga with madrid, then so can mourinho. to me, i look at what we have developped over 3 years, and i see nothing, waste land. we play hoofball a tiny bit better than pardew and newcastle. was there a project? no. over the same period of time, Bayern have turned into the best team of footy, a tactical brilliant side, depth everywhere, and they are winning without Toni Kroos, who i dont think people even remember about lol. the body of work is just a bunch of signings made of a lot of money, and an underwhelming end result on the pitch. like i said, just all the things i was talking about two years ago coming true, mourinho the 10 years manager of madrid is falling short in year 3 already.
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Post by StevieRayVaughan Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:54 pm

The best way to answer this to realize the difference between Real pre Mourinho and after Mou. Before Mou, Real had been non relevant in Europe for 8 years or so, they consistently were getting knocked out by the Lyons and others in the Quarters. Capello couldnt do anything, Schuster or Pelle, or the other managers before him. They were usually compared to the supposed greatest team in the world in Barca, while Barca were winning just about everything. This Barca at that time was one of the top 3 greatest teams ever, so it was not like he had a easy job. In fact, he prolly had the hardest job in the world, so what if your team is worth 500 million, if you opponent has superior players in Messi, Iniesta, Xavi etc, money couldnt buy success as displayed by Madrid under Pelle.

I dont think Mou failed, because first of all he did win the copa in his first season. But the important thing was that he beat Barca in the final, while he had lost 5-0 earlier in the season. Real also reached the Semis that year after like 8 years or so, so I dont consider this season a failure. It was to change this Madrid squad's mentality, and he did so. He gave them a winning mentality.

This showed in the second season, where they were impeccable for most parts of the season. Won the league, and lost in penalties to Bayern. 99% of teams in the world would consider this season a success. In CL, the difference betweeen winning and losing is sometimes so minimal, that you cant do much about it.

Also, I dont understand you saying his inability to build a project in 3 years, did you watch Madrid 3 years ago? Becuase it seems like you clearly didnt, Lyon and Basel posed a greater threat than Madrid in the CL. The only league Madrid won inbetween was because Barca were in transition before Pep. Mou did build a sucessful project in my opinion, Madrid now are considered contenders in CL and a real threat.

Even this year, they lost the league, and they will lose the Copa for sure Smile, but they are still in the Semis and even though I know they will lose, I consider this season a failure, but not the project overall.

I think he came here to knock Barca off the perch, and in some ways he has done that by denying Barca atleast 3 titles and winning atleast 2 of them (1 still to go, but they will lose).

Madrid fans will always look for scapegoats, thats the mentality. Sometimes its Ronaldo who ruins Madrid's style, he should be sold ( lot of Madrid fans were saying this beginning of this year), or its Perez ruins the transfer policy, but the real problem are you fans. For the least 10 years, the fans have set a standard for Real that if they dont win a CL, then not a sucessful season. What has Real done to merit that in the last decade? All the managers who have come to Real have been victims of that mentality, and Mou will be the next.

Also, here is food for thought, which other manager would have done better than Real rather than Mou? Against the greatest ever Barca side and a rejunivated Bayern in the CL?

But no he lost of Dortmund, he sucks, he always did, he is a fraud, he is tactially inept....when some of the more decent posters post such nonsense, I know its time to leave and not argue against ignorance.

Its always good to see Real fans ' breakdown, and even better to see Real fail, but its worse to see mangers between victims of ridiculuous standards set by the press or fans which Madrid have done nothing in the last decade to justify.

So get rid of Mou, spend another 500 mil, and it is just another REGULAR season for Real. Fire Mou for the right reasons because he is a *bleep* not because he failed over the last three years because he didnt.

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Post by Onyx Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:57 pm

Mourinho was appointed for instant success. I think we knew when appointing him we wouldn't get attractive football. We were just desperate for success. He's a main event manager.

In 3 years we've won a Copa del Rey and La Liga, which I think isn't good enough. We haven't managed to win the CL yet.

Tactically I was expecting us to be better defensively under Mourinho, however we haven't improved all that much in the big games.

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:00 pm

Mr Nick09 wrote:we play hoofball a tiny bit better than pardew and newcastle.

Wow Laughing

Not even close mate, we are disgusting.

At least you function and don't lose 6-0 at home to Liverpool Laughing
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Post by Mr Nick09 Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:01 pm

StevieRayVaughan wrote:...
im going out, so i will answer your long post when i comeback, just so you know, been calling mourinho even before he came to madrid. been calling perez a fraud for as long as i can remember. i didnt wait for things to turn badly to call out people. this discourse is one i have been having for the past 3 years.
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Post by sportsczy Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:02 pm

He is pretty tactically narrow... not inept. He has one style of playing and variations around it. If that style is figured out, he has no answer. If you watch Madrid in La Liga this year and Europe, you see that teams have adjusted.

That's why Mou's lifecyle is 2-3 years. He won't change tactics. But a different squad changes how his tactics are executed. He can't overhaul the entire Real Madrid team so that his tactics become fresh again... so what does he need to do? move.
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Post by StevieRayVaughan Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:06 pm

sportsczy wrote:He is pretty tactically narrow... not inept. He has one style of playing and variations around it. If that style is figured out, he has no answer. If you watch Madrid in La Liga this year and Europe, you see that teams have adjusted.

That's why Mou's lifecyle is 2-3 years. He won't change tactics. But a different squad changes how his tactics are executed. He can't overhaul the entire Real Madrid team so that his tactics become fresh again... so what does he need to do? move.

This I actually agree with.

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Post by guest7 Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:42 pm

I agree with everything StevieRayVaughan has said. Especially this part:

Madrid fans will always look for scapegoats, thats the mentality. Sometimes its Ronaldo who ruins Madrid's style, he should be sold ( lot of Madrid fans were saying this beginning of this year), or its Perez ruins the transfer policy, but the real problem are you fans. For the least 10 years, the fans have set a standard for Real that if they dont win a CL, then not a sucessful season. What has Real done to merit that in the last decade? All the managers who have come to Real have been victims of that mentality, and Mou will be the next.

I'm a Madrid fan and I honestly find our fans disgusting. They're so fickle, even a great player like CR wasn't good enough for them once upon a time. Thye have this crap mentality that as soon as one has 1 bad game they need to be replaced. I wish we could just win la decima so the stupid obsession with it can be over, every season that seems like our target but madrid fans need to realize that it can take years before you win CL, just look at inter for example.

But we will still win the Copa final Wink
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Post by Fuchsteufelswild Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:00 pm

Mourinho's Real Madrid:

- Win La Liga against an unmotivated Barcelona and teams that just roll over for Real Madrid.
- Struggle against quality Champions League opposition with no clear victories and more losses than wins.
- Continue the tradition of getting pwned on German soil.
- Still get hyped as a top 2 team in the world based on nothing. Finally that's being put to rest, I hope.

:coffee:



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Post by Kamikaze692 Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:36 pm

Agree 100% with StevieRayVaughn.
1 mistake, and its like everything positive done by the manager is forgotten - sack him, burn him at the stake and my personal fav line "I ALWAYS knew Mr.xyz was gonna be a failure"
seriously, if i had a penny for everytime i heard that line...
And it doesn't just have to be a manager, it could be a Player, President, Director etc. And then the fukin' HYPOCRITES complain that there is a lack of continuity, that we are stuck in some constant quasi - transition period.
It doesn't help that Real is easily one of the most hated clubs by the media and neutrals alike (evidenced by this dude Jibers, who has some sort of obsession with Madrid and the Decima)
hey im not entirely sure about Mou either. I mean his failure to address our defensiv issues, lack of clarity vis á vis the starting striker, purchase of Coentrao even with Marcelo in the team, squables with San Iker are all damning indictments against him. But to brand him a total failure and dis regard his overall impact on taking this forward is just Knee Jerking
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Post by Tomwin Lannister Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:07 pm

Mou has at least gave Madrid an edge over Barca in recent H2H matches, which is what some Madrid fans craved. Having said that, he should make way for Carlo.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:14 pm

It ultimately depends on what you think Mou's signing objective was. If it was to build a team to beat Barca, consider him a success. If it's to win titles and bring the 10th, then I don't think he can be categorized as a success. Considering the amount of resources he had at his disposal and the amount of influence he gained in the club structure I think Madrid's management were expecting a little more from their prized coach.
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Post by BarcaLearning Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:16 pm

StevieRayVaughan wrote:The best way to answer this to realize the difference between Real pre Mourinho and after Mou. Before Mou, Real had been non relevant in Europe for 8 years or so, they consistently were getting knocked out by the Lyons and others in the Quarters. Capello couldnt do anything, Schuster or Pelle, or the other managers before him. They were usually compared to the supposed greatest team in the world in Barca, while Barca were winning just about everything. This Barca at that time was one of the top 3 greatest teams ever, so it was not like he had a easy job. In fact, he prolly had the hardest job in the world, so what if your team is worth 500 million, if you opponent has superior players in Messi, Iniesta, Xavi etc, money couldnt buy success as displayed by Madrid under Pelle.

I dont think Mou failed, because first of all he did win the copa in his first season. But the important thing was that he beat Barca in the final, while he had lost 5-0 earlier in the season. Real also reached the Semis that year after like 8 years or so, so I dont consider this season a failure. It was to change this Madrid squad's mentality, and he did so. He gave them a winning mentality.

This showed in the second season, where they were impeccable for most parts of the season. Won the league, and lost in penalties to Bayern. 99% of teams in the world would consider this season a success. In CL, the difference betweeen winning and losing is sometimes so minimal, that you cant do much about it.

Also, I dont understand you saying his inability to build a project in 3 years, did you watch Madrid 3 years ago? Becuase it seems like you clearly didnt, Lyon and Basel posed a greater threat than Madrid in the CL. The only league Madrid won inbetween was because Barca were in transition before Pep. Mou did build a sucessful project in my opinion, Madrid now are considered contenders in CL and a real threat.

Even this year, they lost the league, and they will lose the Copa for sure Smile, but they are still in the Semis and even though I know they will lose, I consider this season a failure, but not the project overall.

I think he came here to knock Barca off the perch, and in some ways he has done that by denying Barca atleast 3 titles and winning atleast 2 of them (1 still to go, but they will lose).

Madrid fans will always look for scapegoats, thats the mentality. Sometimes its Ronaldo who ruins Madrid's style, he should be sold ( lot of Madrid fans were saying this beginning of this year), or its Perez ruins the transfer policy, but the real problem are you fans. For the least 10 years, the fans have set a standard for Real that if they dont win a CL, then not a sucessful season. What has Real done to merit that in the last decade? All the managers who have come to Real have been victims of that mentality, and Mou will be the next.

Also, here is food for thought, which other manager would have done better than Real rather than Mou? Against the greatest ever Barca side and a rejunivated Bayern in the CL?

But no he lost of Dortmund, he sucks, he always did, he is a fraud, he is tactially inept....when some of the more decent posters post such nonsense, I know its time to leave and not argue against ignorance.

Its always good to see Real fans ' breakdown, and even better to see Real fail, but its worse to see mangers between victims of ridiculuous standards set by the press or fans which Madrid have done nothing in the last decade to justify.

So get rid of Mou, spend another 500 mil, and it is just another REGULAR season for Real. Fire Mou for the right reasons because he is a *bleep* not because he failed over the last three years because he didnt.

This is one of my favourite topics Very Happy And I agree with a lot of the above. Thumbs up Although depending how u measure his success, be it topple Barca, win the CL, just improve the team, play attractive football. I believe the first one was definitely the main task - topple Barca, and he did that, essentially have to admit. Barca were untouchable for so long and his Real was really the team that were able to beat us. The rest I think depends on how u evaluate.

The other thing I think as mentioned above, judge him prior to his arrival, but also AFTER he has left I think would be better, since as we all know, he leaves so soon and sudden all the time, it usually leaves the team in disarray a bit, and if it happens again, can u say hes added to Real overall if u know what I mean.

For me, overall things standing I think he has not failed, but not really a success. It was short term limited success, but not overall.

sportsczy wrote:He is pretty tactically narrow... not inept. He has one style of playing and variations around it. If that style is figured out, he has no answer. If you watch Madrid in La Liga this year and Europe, you see that teams have adjusted.

That's why Mou's lifecyle is 2-3 years. He won't change tactics. But a different squad changes how his tactics are executed. He can't overhaul the entire Real Madrid team so that his tactics become fresh again... so what does he need to do? move.

This is a great point Thumbs up And does goes to show maybe more even more expeirence managers like Fergie who has have to rebuild after each team, or why Pep left also for the same reason? Smile
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Post by Tomwin Lannister Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:18 pm

Yeah to be honest the hype (Justified Hype it was) around Mou coupled with a great budget meant people expecter more from Mou

Flop? Nah.

success? Nah. Needed 1 CL or 2 out of 3 leagues to be a success imo.
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Post by BarcaLearning Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:18 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:It ultimately depends on what you think Mou's signing objective was. If it was to build a team to beat Barca, consider him a success. If it's to win titles and bring the 10th, then I don't think he can be categorized as a success. Considering the amount of resources he had at his disposal and the amount of influence he gained in the club structure I think Madrid's management were expecting a little more from their prized coach.

Great, now I can use that last part to say he was also a FAILURE! Very Happy
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:19 pm

AbraKebabra Alacalamb wrote:Mou has at least gave Madrid an edge over Barca in recent H2H matches.

Tbf how many matches did it take him to do so? Its only this year when he established a clear edge.

Pellegrini was dominating Barca in both games and was very unlucky to not get the W on both occasions, i would wager a decent amount of cash that if Madrid stuck with Pellegrini he would have been able to do that also.
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Post by Onyx Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:21 pm

Pellegrini's 2nd Clasico Barca deserved to win.


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Post by Kamikaze692 Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:50 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
AbraKebabra Alacalamb wrote:Mou has at least gave Madrid an edge over Barca in recent H2H matches.

Tbf how many matches did it take him to do so? Its only this year when he established a clear edge.

Pellegrini was dominating Barca in both games and was very unlucky to not get the W on both occasions, i would wager a decent amount of cash that if Madrid stuck with Pellegrini he would have been able to do that also.
well Rome wasn't built in a day was it eco smile
Imo, it doesn't matter hw long it took, the imp part is, when we line up vs Barca whether its the Camp Nou or Bernabeu, we hold a distinct advantage mentally.
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Post by Tomwin Lannister Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:59 pm

Yeah it took him a while but at the end of the day he wasn't trying to establish dominance over like a Chelsea or a City, we're talking about Barcelona. And no matter how he leaves, he's left them that advantage. And in a league where Barca - Madrid are by far and away the two title challengers, he's given them that advantage.



EDIT: Think about it this way Mole, it took a long time to sculpt Ryan Nelson into the dominant heavy hitting monster we all know and love to be "Big Country" Nelson.
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