Barcelona v Mallorca

Cesc is the first Barcelona player not being Messi to score a hat-trick since Keita in Oct 2009 #fcblive Since then Messi scored 20.


Keita, barca legend

Rotate Messi? To what extent are you suggesting?

Actually whatever it is, for me no...Messi needs to take a game off once in a while vs a scrub....maybe 6, 7 times a season.

gondov wrote:

Cesc is the first Barcelona player not being Messi to score a hat-trick since Keita in Oct 2009 #fcblive Since then Messi scored 20.


Keita, barca legend

Is that only regarding La Liga? Because I do remember Pedro scoring a hattrick this season..

Harmonica wrote:Pinto.

Thanks for the reply. I wouldn't have guessed that.

The Franchise wrote:Rotate Messi? To what extent are you suggesting?

Actually whatever it is, for me no...Messi needs to take a game off once in a while vs a scrub....maybe 6, 7 times a season.

Exactly. Messi doesn't want to rest for even 1% of the games and even if we were to rest him for 10% of the games, that would still be too little football for his replacement.

the only times Messi needs to rest is after international break, other then that maybe the rare times where he feels fatigued after traveling alot in the early stages of champions league groups.

messixaviesta wrote:Really curious to know who got the arm band when Iniesta was substituted. Hope it was Dani Alves. Can anyone shed some light on this?

Yep it was Alves who put it on Pinto's arm actually. If Valdes really goes though, I hope we find a top replacement, Pinto isnt bad, but same prone to mistakes.

gondov wrote:

Cesc is the first Barcelona player not being Messi to score a hat-trick since Keita in Oct 2009 #fcblive Since then Messi scored 20.


Keita, barca legend

I agree with this, Keita used to get a lot of stick as well, undeserved, hes a top midfielder, just always compared withe Iniesta which is not easy He's in China league now doing well

Is that only regarding La Liga? Because I do remember Pedro scoring a hattrick this season..[/quote]


I also read somewhere here this was the first Spainish player to score a hattrick sinc eLuis Enrique way back?

As for if Cesc should stay, of cos he should stay. His game's improved I think for sure since he arrived, and he sitll gets many starting berth's and game time, and dont forget why he chose to came here in the first place, to join his old club where he loves, being in the best club in the world and to win trophies! No reason for him to go just becos hes got the 3 best players in the world in front of his place!

Lol. Pretty sure Soldado has scored a couple of hat-tricks in the past few years.

The Franchise wrote:Rotate Messi? To what extent are you suggesting?

Actually whatever it is, for me no...Messi needs to take a game off once in a while vs a scrub....maybe 6, 7 times a season.

The reason why he's injured is because he played too many matches in such a short amount of time. I've also realised he doesn't contribute much to pressing which is vital to Barcelona's style of play.

That, and I don't believe in players playing every match, apart from biological monsters such as Cristiano or Dani Alves. You can't play high intensity matches twice a week otherwise you're risking injury.

danyjr wrote:

The Franchise wrote:Rotate Messi? To what extent are you suggesting?

Actually whatever it is, for me no...Messi needs to take a game off once in a while vs a scrub....maybe 6, 7 times a season.

The reason why he's injured is because he played too many matches in such a short amount of time. I've also realised he doesn't contribute much to pressing which is vital to Barcelona's style of play.

That, and I don't believe in players playing every match, apart from biological monsters such as Cristiano or Dani Alves. You can't play high intensity matches twice a week otherwise you're risking injury.

Yeah sure, but hes hardly ever injured. Of all the players that dont get injured from playing too much, its him.

I generally agree with you but what your saying doesnt apply to Messi, he doesnt get injured.

I agree about the pressing but its in the big games, not the small ones where this is most hurtful and we arent going to drop him for those.

I think he hardly ever gets injured because he's walking on the pitch. That is not playing football. I can 'play' like that twice a week

PS: Does anyone actually has stats regarding how much ground he covers every match (where is Khaled? He was the stats man). I can bet on my life he's 3rd after the two goalkeepers and I seriously think someone like di María covers three times as much as him, maybe more.

Nah your going too far.

Yes, he doesnt run much, but I can say the same about quite a few players who get injured more freqently.

And Messi playing less isnt going to lead him into running more either, he doesnt run now out of fatigue or playing too much, he doesnt run because he doesnt think he has to and would rather allow someone else to do it.

Here is an example, for the CL only though.

In 708 minutes, Messi has covered 53159 m (4th highest in the team, not taking minutes into account)

in 703 minutes, Ibra has covered 61375 m

In 711 minutes, Xavi has covered 68308 m

In 627 minutes, Jordi Alva has covered 58068 m

In 592 minutes, Di Maria has covered 70435 m

Barca players generally cover low numbers, not surprisingly because they have the ball.

Also these distances never take into account intensity which further complicates matters if we want to talk about working hard and injuries.

But yeah, you get the point.

1. I want my star player to play every match.
   
   
2. Fact: Playing every match increases the risk of injury (due to fatigue).
   
   
3. I'll make him run less to mitigate the risk of injury.

This is what is happening with Messi. I'm sure part of it is psychological, as in 'others will run instead of me' - which is a very bad habit and only cause he's Messi he can get away with it. But the other reason why he doesn't run so much is because he wants to avoid risking injury imo. Look at Xavi, he's been playing non-stop with niggles in the past three years. Why not rotate? It is good for the team. It keeps the team fresh, it keeps the players happy and brings as much competition to the team as it does currently. Especially for a team with a good youth system like Barcelona, it is a shame that you're not playing those youngsters as much as they should be played.

PS: di María

Already wrong, because noone said he should play every match. Because there is a difference between that and rotation which you are suggesting. Noone rotates their best player, noone...not Madrid, not Utd, not anyone.


As for Di Maria, his distance is not that great.

For example, just players who played 600 or less like him and ran more include Kroos, Altintop, Alex Teixeira and Varela.

And guys who have played 100 minutes less than him like Khedira, Christian Eriksen and Sim De Jong have all run more.

Also, I dont understand the remark about youth players not playing enough..this criticism if applied to us, will be applied even more to most clubs.

Which youth players should be playing more in their stages in their careers?

Bartra.....and I cant think of anyone else.

agreed with the franchise, Bartra is the only youth I can think about that deserves more minutes, the only one that can rotate with Messi realistically in the false 9 position is probably Rafinha and he is just fine in Barca B, he's too young.
Thiago gets a lot of minutes, and would of had more if he didn't get injured mid season.
Montoya got a lot of minutes early season and now, which is hard considering he is behind Adriano.
the youth not getting minutes such as JDS, etc should be sold not more minutes.

I'd say Montoya and Tello went though 2 months of barely playing.

Ibra's stats have really surprised me. If I associate one player with walking, it's him.

I agree actually Tello should of played more but that was mainly stupidity by the coaching staff choosing to play Iniesta LW over him.
but idk Adriano is already a bench player, the only way Montoya will get more minutes is if tito strickly plays Adriano LB rather then bringing him on for Dani Alves, and using Montoya strictly RB.

Tello could of played more, he should of perhaps yes. But its not like noone is in front of him, its Villa, Pedro and Alexis.

Best Spanish striker ever probably, Pedro who we are still trying to recapture former glory and a "star" signing. Its not easy finding minutes.

I wish Tello had played more, but its not easy I can see that.

Montoya might of played more too, but we had Adriano and Dani Alves capable at rightback, two of the very best around in that position.

I've personally found Montoya to be better than Adriano at RB, one of the clasicos comes to mind in that regard.

Last season you could of said that, not this one.

This season Adriano has turned that around and his best peformances came in that spell Dani Alves was injured if you recall.

Watched the game again and this is what I am going to say again with a bit more detail on points...

At some point, it has to be said that our defense isn’t “bad,” or “shaky.” Our defense is a victim of the way the club plays right now, which is very high risk. The reason that our defense was so strong in the past was that it had Abidal, and relative health. Last season began the “decline,” because defenders started breaking.

If you look at the way Abidal defends versus the way that Alba defends, it’s clear why the defense is “struggling”: It is placing emphasis on attack, using the FBs to provide width, figuring that if goals are leaked, the team can just score more. This is different from in the past, when Abidal was part of a three-man back line but with sideline-to-sideline range, he fixed a lot of errors from Pique, Puyol, etc.

In the here and now, we often get caught with Alba and Alves up. This means two CBs at the back, with everybody else chasing, and no press, another difference in this season’s defense. If the break is fast enough the chasers never catch up, and we have to rely on luck (Niang’s post) or Valdes (1-v-1) save.

But in the context of how the defense plays, frankly it’s a wonder it hasn’t conceded more goals. Our defense isn’t bad or shaky. It’s risk-heavy, and sometimes gets caught out. And if the midfield isn’t doing its part, the risk is even higher. Look the pressure applied during the Milan match. Aside from Niang’s break, the problems didn’t start until the team decided to start absorbing pressure, rather than pressing. At that point, our defenders have to become something they are not: defenders.

In all competitions, the team has held its opponents to a single goal in 22 of them. For a defense that plays with the risk and lack of discipline (“Everyone to the ball!”) that ours does, that stat verges on mind-boggling. That same defense has also had 14 clean sheets. Again, astounding when you look up and see Alba and Alves in or near the opponents box, and the CBs up by the halfway line.

Would anyone say that United doesn’t have a good defense? They have only three more clean sheets in all competitions, playing a significantly more conservative defensive approach. A bad defense wouldn’t have its team in position to win the Liga, and still in the hunt for Champions League. You don’t have to be a bad defense to concede. You do have to be a risky one.

Next season, assuming the Neymar presence, the defense improves even more, because Alba becomes lateral instead of vertical, echoing the Abidal days. None of this is a bad thing.

The Sanchez wrote:Watched the game again and this is what I am going to say again with a bit more detail on points...

At some point, it has to be said that our defense isn’t “bad,” or “shaky.” Our defense is a victim of the way the club plays right now, which is very high risk. The reason that our defense was so strong in the past was that it had Abidal, and relative health. Last season began the “decline,” because defenders started breaking.

If you look at the way Abidal defends versus the way that Alba defends, it’s clear why the defense is “struggling”: It is placing emphasis on attack, using the FBs to provide width, figuring that if goals are leaked, the team can just score more. This is different from in the past, when Abidal was part of a three-man back line but with sideline-to-sideline range, he fixed a lot of errors from Pique, Puyol, etc.

In the here and now, we often get caught with Alba and Alves up. This means two CBs at the back, with everybody else chasing, and no press, another difference in this season’s defense. If the break is fast enough the chasers never catch up, and we have to rely on luck (Niang’s post) or Valdes (1-v-1) save.

But in the context of how the defense plays, frankly it’s a wonder it hasn’t conceded more goals. Our defense isn’t bad or shaky. It’s risk-heavy, and sometimes gets caught out. And if the midfield isn’t doing its part, the risk is even higher. Look the pressure applied during the Milan match. Aside from Niang’s break, the problems didn’t start until the team decided to start absorbing pressure, rather than pressing. At that point, our defenders have to become something they are not: defenders.

In all competitions, the team has held its opponents to a single goal in 22 of them. For a defense that plays with the risk and lack of discipline (“Everyone to the ball!”) that ours does, that stat verges on mind-boggling. That same defense has also had 14 clean sheets. Again, astounding when you look up and see Alba and Alves in or near the opponents box, and the CBs up by the halfway line.

Would anyone say that United doesn’t have a good defense? They have only three more clean sheets in all competitions, playing a significantly more conservative defensive approach. A bad defense wouldn’t have its team in position to win the Liga, and still in the hunt for Champions League. You don’t have to be a bad defense to concede. You do have to be a risky one.

Next season, assuming the Neymar presence, the defense improves even more, because Alba becomes lateral instead of vertical, echoing the Abidal days. None of this is a bad thing.

I see your point, although most of the time, we try to cover the CBs with Busquets, and I think the reason we still do well defensively stats wise is that we dont have good defenders and GK, just that overall it makes them look bad, but this was Mallorca, where were struggle are vs the likes of Real the really fast and good counter attacking sides. Most teams try to counter us and take advantage by playing diagonal balls into our LB or RB positions to pull the CBs width anyway, its happened for what at least a year now so im sure we are used to it. Actually I think Alves iso good both attacking and defensive wise, and hes so determined and fast most of the tim its ok. Alba im not so sure still.... In some games u can see that clearly they or one of them tend to stay back and get up very little unless chasing the game and have to, just to be safe in numbers at the back.

Not sure if this is going to just continue or change a bit, since it is our style and gameplan required in most games... I agree we get lucky at times with the high risk we are taking...but at the same time, we win back the ball and pressure opponents into mistakes so often the chance of our back being exposed isnt always high, it is just against top quality fast attacking sides thats more worrying.

Sanchez, was you always this insightful? Well said.

Alba is never going to be the defender Abidal is. I don't say that as a knock on Alba, or even as a bad thing, it's simply how Alba is, and how Abidal is. I mean how many times in a game did you see Abidal bursting up the sidelines making an overlapping run? And yet that is Alba's greatest attacking asset. That's not to say Alba CAN'T be more conservative and act a lot like a CB in a 3 man defense like Abidal, but it's not his suit, it's not his style and it's forcing a player into a position they're not the best in. He'll never act as "lateral" as Abidal did, and that's just the way he is.

And we've seen this before. Song, Busquets at defense both haven't really worked out, Cesc as a CM is not really his position either. Masch is the star example, and he continues to be an error-prone CB despite him playing there for quite a while now.

Do I think Alba can still be a good LB for us? I do, but it must signal a change in style and to some extent we have seen this. He also has a lot of things to work on, but that's besides the matter.