Can Serie A (and possibly La Liga?) manage to stay competitive in the long-run?

Hopefully Roma will have their stadium done in 3-4 years and add some needed enthusiasm. No doubt that a bigger team getting a new stadia can boost morale like with Juve, it defined a new era, even though a lot of things must come together ofc.

El Shaarawy wrote:Juventus ended the season unbeaten last year and, despite showing signs of weakness in this campaign, continue to be the best Serie A team this season.

Milan have shown this season that they are building a team capable of challenging for the Scudetto again next year, while Inter were in the' title race earlier in the season.

These two giants will always remain a vitall part of Italian football but are coming under increasing pressure to remain ahead of the chasing pack. Currently in the midst of a transitional period, the Milanese clubs are experiencing some good times and bad times in their cycles of success but will ultimately return to being protagonists sooner rather than later.

Napoli have already re-emerged as a force in Italy, reguarly challeenging for a place in the top three despite falling short in the title race. As a result of the UEFA co-efficient rankings, Italy has seen its number of Champions League participants reduced to three, but the Partenopei are on the path to becoming an elite team.

In addition, foundations that are being laid for the future at the likes of Fiorentina, Roma and Lazio, who are all currently involved in a scramble to secure their reservations at Europe’s top table next season.

The Viola are constructing a technically gifted squad who have the ability to play some of the best football in Italy, while Roma have a group of talented players who surely warrant a place higher up the league table.

This can only be positive for the Italian game. However, because many of these teams lack consistency in a league that has its fair share of ups and downs, there is always a possibility of a surprise package emerging

Udinese and coach Francesco Guidolin should be lauded for their ability to defy the odds and finish amongst the best in the peninsula. The club’s transfer policy sees them split with their best players every summer, yet they still find a way to deliver (despite some fans displeasure to the club )

However, the disadvantage lies in their inability to challenge in Europe. With places in the Champions League already at a premium, Serie A simply can’t afford to have weak representatives who will face elimination in either the qualifying or early rounds.

So, is it better for the league in general to have a core of three to four clubs that have strength in depth and are built to compete at a European level? Or is the league more interesting with up to six or seven clubs capable of fighting for a limited number of European spots? There are arguments that support both theories, and more answers are likely to arrive following this next month

That's the thing though. Can all these teams keep their core ? If Napoli sells Cavani for example, Roma sells Marquinho, Fiorentina sells Jovetic. Wouldn't they all go back a step ? I can compare this to Arsenal. We are not moving forward because we are always rebuilding instead of improving

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

The Franchise wrote:Intresting stuff, even to me, someone who hates all things numbers.

Where I am right now is, it is clear with the boxes, big disadvantage. No question.

But the question still remains if people will come to the boxes to watch Inter. I think most probably yes.

But what about other clubs? Thats im not too sure of.

Agreed, it's a strategy for big clubs but not smaller ones. Juve, Roma, Inter and Milan could pull it off, but everyone else would be well advised to not rely on this method.

Agreed - although don't sleep on Florence or the Genoa clubs. Not the biggest fanbases, but they are cities that are on the larger (and more importantly wealthier) side - they might also benefit from adding boxes

I think the fact we were in the Top 20 deloitte money list says all you need to know tbh

Also, reduce the number of teams to 16, let the scrubs fight in Serie B

RG makes a fair point, rebuilding sounds all nice and warm on paper but if you rebuild, sell your best boys, rebuild again and tell the fans that you're in a stage of rebuilding then it's just a smoke screen covering up the fact you're a selling club.

I'd type more RG but im too tired now T_T will see if i have time tomorrow

I'm not saying they shouldn't add boxes, but they probably shouldn't add as many as those other clubs.

Also on a slightly related note: when will leagues start selling TV and Streaming services separately? Internet revenue is the future, it allows you to target to a specific audience and thus advertisers are willing to pay more buck for these. I'm sick and tired of companies that do not take advantage of it.

There is a huge market for this. Think of all the users that have to rely on third party streams of low quality. I'd be more than willing to pay a monthly fee for an HD streaming service of la liga + epl + serie a + international matches comparable to those of TV services.

I agree

If I could pay Juventus directly for a Juventus streaming season ticket then I would do it.

Clubs could pounce on that, what fan that doesn't have the opportunity to go to every game wouldn't want a reliable, HD stream?

AbraKebabra Alacalamb wrote:I agree

If I could pay Juventus directly for a Juventus streaming season ticket then I would do it.

Clubs could pounce on that, what fan that doesn't have the opportunity to go to every game wouldn't want a reliable, HD stream?

That actually sounds pretty good.

Yeah an online season ticket idea, i'll cut you in if I make it big.

La Liga clubs could pull it off because right now they don't have collective bargaining. It would be impossible for Serie A clubs to develop it since they do not have individual selling rights. You could even sell it to smart/android/apple TVs and even videogame consoles if you develop an app for it, you wouldn't be stuck to your monitory, it would work just the same way netflix does.

These ideas are absolutely fantastic - anyone know where we can get some venture capital?

Goal Legacy, LLP

quick copyright them lol. Might as well sue someone in the future. We have few potential lawyers at GL as well i think

Tell me how I can copyright my season ticket idea, if it makes it big one day we'll get in on the business and live a comfortable life with hookers and home gyms.

Edit the post and put a copyright logo.

Forget about online streaming, first of all those rights are already sold, and the reason it has not been implemented is because it's nowhere near profitable. The closest you're gonna get is something like ESPN3.

I'll just mention some of the difficulties Serie A faces in comparison to the other leagues.

Premier League:
EPL's tv deal has already been mentioned.Essentially ,going by some articles i've read on Swiss Ramble ,a 3rd-4th place EPL team would earn as much as the Serie A champions in TV money and this considering the fact that most Italian clubs have no alternate source of revenue apart from the huge chunk of the domestic TV money big clubs receive.Also Minimal stadia and commercial revenue would mean the economic gap is only going to get larger which will have several rebound effects mainly in regards to the gap in quality between the teams/leagues.

Ligue 1:
The emergence of PSG and possibly cash-rich Monaco from next season is bad news for the Serie A teams who are still in a rebuilding phase and running with a limited budget.Add to that Ligue 1 sides are performing fairly well in the Europa League.In the long run,many of France's top teams are going to have new stadiums couple that with the Financial might of certain clubs and its trouble for Serie A in the future.

Bundesliga:
Most clubs are financially sustainable in the Bundesliga.Add to that there are several quality young players in the league and since Bundesliga would be keeping 4 CL spots atleast for a good 4-5 years ,they attain strength in retaining those players ,plus be able to buy better players with the cash boost they receive from the Champions League.Then there's Bayern who are entering into one of the best phases in their history.A German team winning CL would mean more worldwide recognition to the league globally ,more global TV income(perhaps?),getting sponsors ,commercializing would become much easier for clubs other than Bayern(see Dortmund for example)=More Money=more quality in the teams and the league as a whole.

In regards to La Liga i dont think it matters much when you see the poor financial situation of some Spanish clubs.No matter how much the gap enlarges ,and no matter how much quality drops in smaller Spanish teams,this is still Real and Barca we're talking about who have a worldwide pull like no other club and who will keep the league competitive in the long-term with their performances in Europe.

What Serie A needs ? Its already been mentioned before,new stadium is of perennial importance for financial sustainability which many Italian clubs aim for.But the problem we are facing here is some wierd stadium law which is preventing stadium projects from kicking off sooner.We're looking at a good 4-5 years here and in that period there's all the possibility in the world that Serie A drops in co-efficients since most teams are not up to standard and just plummet down further and by the time Juve make 'big profits' and, or a Roma or an Inter get their new stadium,Serie A by then,would be seen as a massive step down for top quality players.(With other leagues growing stronger).And i really really need to be convinced with the amount of youth talent within the league.There is quality youth no doubt but you cant always rely on them,especially the bigger sides.(just look at Milan-Barca for instance.A big CL game where there's too much pressure on youngsters' shoulders.)

The point here is staying competitive and winning.You can stay competitive to a certain extent with youth but winning the big trophies ? winning CL ? I wouldnt think so.

As far as i see it this league needs HEAVY investments in infrastructure and some smart planning to even be up there just behind the top 3 leagues.and lets not forget exploiting markets like Asia would become easier when teams are winning especially on the European stage.For example an Italian team winning the CL would be beneficial for the entire league.

You might say money is not everything but eventually it will pay off dividends.I think having a smart management is the key though.Chelsea saw instant success,Man City took a while but they're almost there.PSG have a near WC team in a space of 2 years.Money will eventually pay off.

a simple answer for serie a in it's current format? no. with the new stadiums being built by roma,inter and planned stadiums by udinese,fiorentina and napoli and no more match fixing problems? yes.

What isn't being mentioned enough, if at all, is that Italy is a footballing country with some 60m population. That's a good player pool which will provide Serie A teams with decent talent. This is the corner stone for having a strong league and it isn't going anywhere.

But sure enough money makes the world go round, the world of football, too.

If one league manages to grow faster than others - like BPL seems to be doing - the impact of that will not be fully felt instantly in the first few years, but in the long run when bigger proportion of new, global football fans get attracted to the biggest league with most exposure. So if / when growth feeds growth, those who fall behind will find it harder to remain competitive.

The Dutch league is probably the best example of this. Feyenoord (once) and Ajax (thrice) won the European Cup between years '70-'73, four times in a row. Eindhoven won it in '88 and Ajax again in '95. After that no Dutch clubs have won the CL and nowadays it would be considered a major shock if a Dutch team won the CL. They've simply fallen so far behind financially that even though Ajax have managed to acquire some fantastic players all the way to this date (Ibrahimovic, Suarez, Sneijder etc.) they cannot keep hold of them because richer clubs will offer so much more.

What gives Serie A hope is that it already generates a very decent annual revenue, so even if Barclay's Premier League grows faster than the Italian league, it won't be a case of fighting tanks with sticks and stones, i.e. they can pay considerable wages and transfer fees as things stand.

AbraKebabra Alacalamb wrote:I agree

If I could pay Juventus directly for a Juventus streaming season ticket then I would do it.

Clubs could pounce on that, what fan that doesn't have the opportunity to go to every game wouldn't want a reliable, HD stream?

Like BarrileteAndrew said, it cannot be done in leagues with collective bargaining agreements.

There are legal streams, for instance betting sites who pay for the right to stream matches on their website, but since those aren't really a big thing and the matches tend to be from leagues and competitions of which broadcasting rights aren't too expensive, I suppose there isn't yet enough demand for clubs to stream their games live on their website, i.e. they would have to pay more for those broadcasting rights than they would earn from subscribers to those streams.

AbraKebabra Alacalamb wrote:Tell me how I can copyright my season ticket idea, if it makes it big one day we'll get in on the business and live a comfortable life with hookers and home gyms.

TomJuve and Sons Ltd

@Surag

I think you can scratch Ligue1 off your list. With the new tax laws in France (75% tax on income > 1 mio Euros), high wages are just not really sustainable for the clubs anymore, oil money or not.

Phritz wrote:Forget about online streaming, first of all those rights are already sold, and the reason it has not been implemented is because it's nowhere near profitable. The closest you're gonna get is something like ESPN3.

As it stands, it's not really offered as a separate service, but as a complimentary one. Under a different model it might be a lot more profitable.

BTP Anto (If anyone knows him) posted some interesting information about the top 4 leagues' transfer activity

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1rjncfu


"According to an ESADE report on transfer activity in Europe’s top leagues during the 2012-2013 season, Spain saw the lowest investment, spending just $187 million in the summer and winter transfer markets this year. By comparison, the English Premier League spent $1.02 billion, Serie A spent $570 million, the Bundesliga $362 million and Ligue 1 $330 million.

Now according to transfermarkt.co.uk, which only includes winter net spend top three and Spain to continue the trend.

TRANSFER BALANCE SHEET: SEASONS 12/13
Bundesliga
Transfer revenue: 20.926.400£
Transfer expenditures: 35.640.000£
Total: -14.713.600 £

Serie A
Transfer revenue: 66.176.000£
Transfer expenditures: 88.660.000£
Total: -22.484.000£

Premier League
Transfer revenue: 53.653.600£
Transfer expenditures: 128.656.000£
Total: -75.002.400£

Spain on a different trend
Transfer revenue: 20.372.000£
Transfer expenditures: 11.985.600£
Total: +8.386.400£ "

dem Serie A expenditures

NO.

la liga lost 5 out of their top 7 lge scorers or something stupid, with ronaldo on his way out..
but theyre getting bale....lol