Tactics and Formations

With Coutinho back, what would (or should) be our starting XI, tactics or formation!!!

My guess is Sturridge, Suarez, Coutinho, Gerrard, Lucas and Johnson are confirmed starters. Now, if Rodgers wants to gamble with Cissoko or Enrique is fit or slots Kelly or Flanagan in either wing-back position; there are two options. Either continue with 3-CB:

----------Mignolet----------
----------CB-CB-CB---------
Johnson-Lucas-Gerrard-LWB
----------Coutinho----------
------Suarez-Sturridge-----

or sacrifice a CB for Henderson:

------Mignolet------
Jonson-CB-CB-LWB
--------Lucas--------
Gerrard-Henderson
-----Coutinho------
-Suarez-Sturridge-

Has anyone else realised we concede A LOT more playing with 3 at the back?

Can we drop this experiment already? >.>"

Play Skrtel and Sakho away, and Sakho and Agger at home. Kolo the back up.

Results have been good with 3 at the back and that's where our squad strengths lie.

Since we've changed to a 3 at the back we've conceded 8 goals (7 in the league, 1 in the COC)

4 set piece goals (2 corners, 2 freekicks)
1 penalty
2 long ranged shots
1 from open play

Only 1 from open play from a very good Arsenal side that was basically a rebound goal. The 3 at the back is not the problem that we concede mate. It's the personnel, lack of concentration on set pieces, and general moments of idiocy from us or moments of brilliance from the opposition.

2 long ranged shots are still from open play, though.

How is it our strength if this is the first time majority of these players have played 3 at the back in their life? They're still trying to learn these zones and stay disciplined tactically. It's a stupid formation when it comes to the BPL and tempo is quick. Majority of our goals conceded are from a break / when the opposition plays it quick.

We're most dominant when we play 3 in the middle / 4 man defence and playing possession type football instead of this counter attacking crap. >.>"

And we've been crap at set pieces (and defending in general) since Clarke has left, we really need a defensive coach instead of defending with 10 men behind the ball and expecting Suarez/Sturridge to bail us out.

Red Alert wrote:Play Skrtel and Sakho away, and Sakho and Agger at home. Kolo the back up.

Where is the sense in that? Agger is better than Skrtel and should always be ahead of him. The problem is that both Agger and Sakho are left sided and left footed. As a duo they would need time before they are comfortable together because one of them would have to get used to playing on his weaker side. Therefore 3 CB's is the best solution, it gets both of our best CB's on the pitch without playing either on the right hand side.

Our problem has been that our best CB has been injured and then not been put back into the team. Once again our defensive record suffers when Daniel Agger isn't in the side. We should put him back into the team tomorrow either as the most central CB or LCB. I'd prefer him to be the middle CB as it would allow him to use his positional awareness, tactical intelligence and ball playing ability to act as a sweeper or step out into midfield to create an overload in that area and help us set up attacks.

I see your point about going to a back 3 and the effect it's had on our defensive record, but before we make a final judgement on the system I think we should play it with our strongest team, and that team undoubtedly includes Agger.

3/5 man defense is a joke. More bodies in the defense doesn't necessarily mean we'll be the world beaters in defense. If we start dominating games like we used to then we really don't need to worry about leaking goals.. look at Soton or Spuds. Or if we want to persist with the counter-attacking style, we need destroyers in the midfield and switching back to a 4-man backline.

El Jefe wrote:

Red Alert wrote:Play Skrtel and Sakho away, and Sakho and Agger at home. Kolo the back up.

Where is the sense in that? Agger is better than Skrtel and should always be ahead of him. The problem is that both Agger and Sakho are left sided and left footed. As a duo they would need time before they are comfortable together because one of them would have to get used to playing on his weaker side.  Therefore 3 CB's is the best solution, it gets both of our best CB's on the pitch without playing either on the right hand side.

Our problem has been that our best CB has been injured and then not been put back into the team. Once again our defensive record suffers when Daniel Agger isn't in the side. We should put him back into the team tomorrow either as the most central CB or LCB. I'd prefer him to be the middle CB as it would allow him to use his positional awareness, tactical intelligence and ball playing ability to act as a sweeper or step out into midfield to create an overload in that area and help us set up attacks.

I see your point about going to a back 3 and the effect it's had on our defensive record, but before we make a final judgement on the system I think we should play it with our strongest team, and that team undoubtedly includes Agger.

Agger is a better footballer than Skrtel. It's the only reason why I'd only play him at Anfield; due to his runs/playmaking from the back. Martin is easily the better defender. Agger has been average defensively the moment Steve Clarke left Liverpool. He's also been fit for the last month or so, he just can't get a game in. If he was our "best" defender, he would of came in, no?

Sakho can play on the right hand side of the defence. He did this many times at PSG.

3 CB's is stupid, and useless too, considering it's obviously not working and it doesn't play to our strengths. It puts the WHOLE team in strife, but it seems only the midfield is getting the blame. Agger alone in the squad won't fix the problem. We'd need to sign 4-5 players in January alone for us to continue it this season. That would include a LWB, 2 central midfielders, and a number 10 and perhaps a back-up RWB when Johnson is out. We'll continue to have problems with those signings because we're still playing with 3 at the back and Liverpool's transfer record/history in the market is beyond pathetic.

Agger is by far a better defender than Skrtel. Why do we play so much better when he's in the team? It's no coincedence. He's just a better footballer and better defender.

Sakho is a left sided centre back. Usually played next to Alex and Camara instead of Silva, who also prefers the left, despite Sakho and Silva being the best 2 individually.

They've actually just mentioned on Sky Sports how Arsenal could have problems with Koscielny switching to RCB for this match against United. The vast majority of defenders much prefer playing one side of the defence. Sakho and Agger are both left sided players.

Agger is not "far better", he's not even "better" defensively.

We play much better because he's a better footballer, and is world class at actually playing the ball out of defence. That has nothing to do with him being a better defender.

If Agger was better defensively, he would of been world class. He's not even a top 5 CB in the league, and hasn't been for over a season now.

Sakho is a left sided defender, I never said he wasn't. But he can play on the right hand side. He's got a decent right boot. He played that role for PSG at times.

Tbh the only reason we employed 3-5-2 was to give game time to the unnecessary number of CB's we have.

Skrtel, Agger, Sakho, Toure, Llori, Coates, Wisdom fighting for 2 places.

Does anyone find it odd that our worst and best spells were probably with the Agger-Skrtel partnership

Whose fault is it that we have so many CBs? Should we play with 6 at the back because we have more defenders than forwards? Come on. Stick to the game plan.

Anyway,

Coates has been injured and will continue to be injured for majority of the season.
Wisdom should have been loaned out. He could have played as a RB if we played with 4 at the back but we didn't.  
Ilori wasn't needed, I don't really want to discuss why it was a stupid deal. People were saying he can play as a LB before he was signed, so could of covered Enrique instead of watching Cissokho play if we stuck to 4 at the back.
Toure is a reliable back-up, he is no way better than the other 3:
Skrtel, Sakho and Agger should be the main two contenders for 2 spots.

Wisdom HAS been loaned out...

Agger is a far better defender than Skrtel. People rate Skrtel because he's aggressive (still gets bullied by big strikers) and makes a few last ditch clearances and blocks.

We defend better as a whole team when Agger plays, he reads the game better than Skrtel and allows us to play a higher line, we're more organised and there's less need for last ditch tackles and blocks because we're more in control.

And on Sakho, just because he might have played a role an odd time doesn't mean we should play him there in 50% of our games, especially when it doesn't suit him. And it's not about having a decent right boot anyway.

RedOranje wrote:Wisdom HAS been loaned out...

Oh, well good on him then.
Doesn't change my point. Drop this 3 CB crap for good.

El Jefe wrote:Agger is a far better defender than Skrtel. People rate Skrtel because he's aggressive (still gets bullied by big strikers) and makes a few last ditch clearances and blocks.

We defend better as a whole team when Agger plays, he reads the game better than Skrtel and allows us to play a higher line, we're more organised and there's less need for last ditch tackles and blocks because we're more in control.

And on Sakho, just because he might have played a role an odd time doesn't mean we should play him there in 50% of our games, especially when it doesn't suit him. And it's not about having a decent right boot anyway.

He may have been in the past, but he's definitely not any better now. Agger is doing a Reina atm. Loyal, love him as a person, great off the pitch, but not producing on the pitch; he's living off reputation rather than on merit. He's been close to average since Clarke has left.

Who's Skrtel been bullied by this season?

It's not just about having a decent right boot, I agree. But he's comfortable to play the role. The only reason I stated that he's good with his right foot was if he was closed down by the opposition he didn't have to cut back to his left.

Red Alert wrote:
He may have been in the past, but he's definitely not any better now. Agger is doing a Reina atm. Loyal, love him as a person, great off the pitch, but not producing on the pitch; he's living off reputation rather than on merit. He's been close to average since Clarke has left.

okay, who are you trying to fool?

ynwa, i think we just cant judge Agger like that right now..is he being sarcastic again

McAgger wrote:

Red Alert wrote:
He may have been in the past, but he's definitely not any better now. Agger is doing a Reina atm. Loyal, love him as a person, great off the pitch, but not producing on the pitch; he's living off reputation rather than on merit. He's been close to average since Clarke has left.

okay, who are you trying to fool?

I know everyone is entitled to an opinion but he's becoming a bit comical now.

Nope.. ynwa is right, Agger is the better overall player but Skrtel is the better defender. Give me one single instance where Agger can justify that he is the better of the two defenders and has single handedly saved our arse in the past two seasons? Even under Clarke, Skrtel was the better defender. Remove those rose-tinted glasses.

If Skrtel is better then why is Skrtel so much worse when Agger doesn't play? Why is the defence so much worse when Agger doesn't play? Why is the team so much worse when Agger doesn't play?

Skrtel is more aggressive. He wins his fair share of headers, makes a few slide tackles and last ditch blocks and clearances. People then get the impression that he is a better individual defender, when the reality is that the best defenders don't need to.
Maldini, one of the best defenders I've ever seen, was famous for not getting his legs dirty. He was in control of situations so much that he didn't have to be throwing himself around. Agger is the same but to a lesser extent. I'm comparing the style not ability. He doesn't have to throw himself around, he's more composed, he reads the game better, anticipation is better, positioning is better. To me, these qualities are more important than aggression.

ExtremistEnigma wrote:Nope.. ynwa is right, Agger is the better overall player but Skrtel is the better defender. Give me one single instance where Agger can justify that he is the better of the two defenders and has single handedly saved our arse in the past two seasons? Even under Clarke, Skrtel was the better defender. Remove those rose-tinted glasses.

It's not even ynwa saying that Skrtel is better than Agger that's laughable. It's his opinion, I don't agree with it, but he can argue it. What gets me is that he's comparing Aggers situation to Reina ffs. TO REINA. Out of the 7 games Agger has played this season we've won 6. Getting a clean sheet in 4 of them. WE WIN when Agger plays. I don't even know what other arguments you could possibly need.

Skrtel has to make those last ditch clearances because Agger exposes the defense.. like Vermaelen used to at Arsenal. He's a good player overall, but an average defender. Maldini actually defended, Agger just makes those slick passes that are pleasing to the eye.. he is defensively not even half of Maldini. When has his composure, anticipation, positioning actually helped the team? We were basically dropping two points against Stoke if not for Mignolet.

The best defenders are the ones whose reading of the game is excellent, are mentally strong and technically gifted. Agger only falls in the 'technically gifted' category.

^^ You are so wrong mate. Skrtel makes to last ditch tackles because he gets caught out first and foremost. If he didn't get caught out so much he wouldn't have to make those last ditch tackles. Skrtel's best season came with Kenny when Agger was alongside him. Every time Agger was injured, he looked like shite next to Carra.

It's a myth that some of you here have created that Skrtel is a better defender than Agger. It's not remotely true. But hey whatever floats your boat. In my opinion, Agger is better as a footballer and he's just as good defensively if not better.

You know, I think it's nonsensical to argue this much about who's better, Skrtel or Agger, because both of them have shown time and again that they're really good for us. I actually find it a bit sad that some of us fans are so eager to support their favorite out of these two that it results in arguments where the other one is being criticized way too harshly or even mocked. When you look at them in the long run, they've both been great. Okay, we have favorites among players, that's normal, but it's carried on too long in this forum, imo, that the Skrtel camp and the Agger camp have made it their obsession to praise or defend the other while discrediting the other one.

Couldn't we just agree that it's pretty damn fine to see either of them playing for us?

McAgger wrote:

ExtremistEnigma wrote:Nope.. ynwa is right, Agger is the better overall player but Skrtel is the better defender. Give me one single instance where Agger can justify that he is the better of the two defenders and has single handedly saved our arse in the past two seasons? Even under Clarke, Skrtel was the better defender. Remove those rose-tinted glasses.

It's not even ynwa saying that Skrtel is better than Agger that's laughable. It's his opinion, I don't agree with it, but he can argue it. What gets me is that he's comparing Aggers situation to Reina ffs. TO REINA. Out of the 7 games Agger has played this season we've won 6. Getting a clean sheet in 4 of them. WE WIN when Agger plays. I don't even know what other arguments you could possibly need.

You were all defending Reina this time last year, and I was in my own boat where I said Reina was a liability and needed to be replaced.

Getting clean sheets mean f*ck all. Stop looking at stats. Reina was in the top 3 in the PL last year with clean sheets. Are you honestly telling me he was a top 3 goalkeeper in the league?

We've won more with Agger because of the system (we play 4 at the back when he's played), not because of him. Watch him more carefully. The amount of times he gets bullied, beaten, heads the ball back into a dangerous area is ridiculous. Kolo Toure from all people carried him at the start. Agger gave away 2-3 mistakes that could of cost us points in the first 2-3 games ffs. He had nothing to do with Fulham, but he couldn't get back into the team when we were playing with 3 at the back. Considering he's the only "libero" in the team, he should of came in, no?

El Jefe wrote:

McAgger wrote:

Red Alert wrote:
He may have been in the past, but he's definitely not any better now. Agger is doing a Reina atm. Loyal, love him as a person, great off the pitch, but not producing on the pitch; he's living off reputation rather than on merit. He's been close to average since Clarke has left.

okay, who are you trying to fool?

I know everyone is entitled to an opinion but he's becoming a bit comical now.

This is coming from a man that attacks the way Lucas Leiva walks ffs.

Are you honestly telling me Agger is playing the at the level he should be playing? Cause if you are then you've clearly not seen him at the top of his game. Playing poor for a year when the system is supposed to actually bring his quality's out is not down to bad form, it's a loss of quality. He can't defend, I honestly don't understand why people are surprised of this. He's basically our Vermaelen... lmao

HEIL MEIN REDS wrote:ynwa, i think we just cant judge Agger like that right now..is he being sarcastic again

Sarcastic how?